[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":6946},["ShallowReactive",2],{"header-articles":3,"resources-leadership":1469,"resources-marketing":2669,"resources-events":3248,"resources-team":4542,"resources-guides-v2":5169,"resources-glossaries":6898},[4,327,590,906,1147],{"id":5,"title":6,"author":7,"authors":8,"body":10,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":316,"description":317,"extension":318,"img":319,"imgAlt":6,"meta":320,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":323,"seo":324,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":325,"updated":7,"__hash__":326},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fwhy-you-should-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search-results.md","Why You Should Monitor Brand Mentions in AI Search Results",null,[9],"Kerry Guard",{"type":11,"value":12,"toc":290},"minimark",[13,17,20,23,28,31,34,42,45,68,72,80,88,91,95,98,102,105,110,118,124,128,131,156,160,174,178,181,185,188,192,195,199,202,213,217,220,224,227,231,234,238,244,247,250,254],[14,15,16],"p",{},"Right now, AI search engines are talking about your software company. Whether you track it or not, platforms like ChatGPT Search, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews answer questions every single day about your product capabilities, pricing, and market reputation. B2B software buyers use these tools to build shortlists, compare technical features, and make buying decisions before ever clicking through to a vendor's website.",[14,18,19],{},"If you rely on old brand-monitoring tools, you are running blind. Traditional monitoring platforms track static web pages, social media tags, and news mentions. They cannot show you what a buyer sees inside a conversational AI search box.",[14,21,22],{},"Unlike traditional Google search, where a website's ranking and content stay relatively consistent from day to day, AI-generated responses are dynamic. They synthesize information on the fly from across the web. Without an active monitoring strategy, inaccurate product claims, outdated pricing, or heavy competitor recommendations can quietly slip into AI responses without your knowledge, pulling qualified leads out of your pipeline before you even know they exist.",[24,25,27],"h2",{"id":26},"the-dynamic-reality-of-ai-search-results","The Dynamic Reality of AI Search Results",[14,29,30],{},"To understand why monitoring AI brand mentions requires a new approach, consider how AI search engines differ from traditional search directories.",[14,32,33],{},"In a traditional search model, Google crawls a page, indexes the text, and displays a link. If your page ranks third for a keyword, it generally stays near that spot until an algorithm update or a content change occurs.",[14,35,36,37,41],{},"AI search engines work differently. When a prospective customer prompts an AI tool—asking, for example, ",[38,39,40],"em",{},"\"What are the best enterprise cloud security platforms for healthcare compliance?\"","—the underlying Large Language Model (LLM) retrieves information from dozens of real-time sources, synthesizes the facts, and writes a unique response.",[14,43,44],{},"Because these responses are generated in real time, the way an AI engine describes your brand can shift based on:",[46,47,48,56,62],"ul",{},[49,50,51,55],"li",{},[52,53,54],"strong",{},"New Web Scrapes:"," A fresh review, a Reddit discussion thread, or an updated competitor blog post can instantly alter how the AI summarizes your company.",[49,57,58,61],{},[52,59,60],{},"Prompt Variations:"," Slight changes in how a user words a query can lead the AI to pull from entirely different data sources.",[49,63,64,67],{},[52,65,66],{},"Model Updates:"," As platforms update their underlying LLMs, the sources they trust and cite shift continuously.",[24,69,71],{"id":70},"the-risks-of-unmonitored-ai-brand-mentions","The Risks of Unmonitored AI Brand Mentions",[14,73,74,79],{},[75,76],"img",{"alt":77,"src":78},"","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F378276c5-b933-4eed-8804-a96958aabcdf-why-you-should-monitor-image-1.webp","When you leave your AI presence to chance without monitoring what these engines say, you’re gambling with your brand equity, and small inaccuracies turn into major business risks.",[81,82,84,87],"h3",{"id":83},"_1-hallucinated-features-and-misattributed-limitations",[52,85,86],{},"1. Hallucina","ted Features and Misattributed Limitations",[14,89,90],{},"AI engines occasionally \"hallucinate\": presenting incorrect details with absolute authority. An AI search tool might state that your software lacks a key integration, charges hidden fees, or only supports small businesses when you actually target enterprise accounts. If a buyer reads that hallucinated summary, they may drop your company from their consideration set without ever contacting your sales team.",[81,92,94],{"id":93},"_2-competitor-hijacking","2. Competitor Hijacking",[14,96,97],{},"If your competitors actively optimize their web presence for generative search while your brand stays passive, AI engines will default to recommending your competitors. When buyers ask AI tools to compare your product against a competitor, an unmonitored response might highlight your rival's strengths while summarizing outdated or inaccurate criticisms of your platform.",[81,99,101],{"id":100},"_3-loss-of-narrative-control","3. Loss of Narrative Control",[14,103,104],{},"In B2B tech, your positioning is everything. If an AI search engine pulls its understanding of your brand from outdated PR releases, informal forum threads, or low-authority review sites, your core value proposition gets diluted. You lose control over how your product is framed during the buyer's research phase.",[14,106,107],{},[52,108,109],{},"Expert Insight from MKG Marketing:",[14,111,112,115,116],{},[38,113,114],{},"\"","Designers often say \"This website speaks more to LLMs than human beings.\" To that I say, \"Good. That's step one.\" Step one: be findable by answer engines. Humans will end up there after they search for the problem. Step two: optimize for the human experience once they arrive. Right now most teams are still trying to optimize for both at the same time, which means they optimize for neither.The order matters. Findable first. Usable second.",[38,117,114],{},[14,119,120,121,123],{},"— ",[52,122,9],{},", Founder & CEO at MKG Marketing",[24,125,127],{"id":126},"why-manual-spot-checks-arent-enough","Why Manual Spot-Checks Aren't Enough",[14,129,130],{},"Many marketing teams attempt to solve this problem by occasionally typing their company name into ChatGPT or Perplexity to see what comes up. While spot-checking is a natural first step, it fails as a long-term business strategy for three reasons:",[132,133,134,140,150],"ol",{},[49,135,136,139],{},[52,137,138],{},"Personalized and Location-Based Bias:"," AI search tools tailor responses based on user location, session history, and account settings. What you see on your desktop in an office is rarely identical to what a buyer sees in another region.",[49,141,142,145,146,149],{},[52,143,144],{},"Infinite Query Permutations:"," Buyers don't just type your brand name. They ask complex, long-tail questions like ",[38,147,148],{},"\"How long does it take to implement [Company Name] compared to [Competitor]?\""," Manual checks cannot cover the hundreds of ways prospects ask about your category.",[49,151,152,155],{},[52,153,154],{},"Lack of Historical Tracking:"," Spot-checks give you a single snapshot in time. They don't track trends, measure whether your citation share is growing, or alert you when an inaccurate claim enters the AI's data pool.",[24,157,159],{"id":158},"how-to-build-a-systematic-strategy-the-best-ways-to-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search","How to Build a Systematic Strategy: The Best Ways to Monitor Brand Mentions in AI Search",[14,161,162,165,166,169,170,173],{},[75,163],{"alt":77,"src":164},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F4c47ce7e-784c-46ee-bd33-f4ff8fd72368-why-you-should-monitor-image-2.webp","Protecting your company’s digital footprint requires shifting from manual testing to a structured ",[52,167,168],{},"Search Visibility Optimization (SVO)"," framework. Establishing effective ",[52,171,172],{},"brand monitoring across ai search engines"," involves four operational steps:",[81,175,177],{"id":176},"step-1-identify-high-intent-buyer-prompts","Step 1: Identify High-Intent Buyer Prompts",[14,179,180],{},"Brainstorm the exact questions your ideal prospects ask during their evaluation phase. Move beyond simple brand searches to focus on category comparisons, feature queries, and implementation questions.",[81,182,184],{"id":183},"step-2-map-your-citation-share-across-key-ai-platforms","Step 2: Map Your \"Citation Share\" Across Key AI Platforms",[14,186,187],{},"Track how frequently AI tools cite your site compared to competitors across platforms like ChatGPT Search, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews. Note which specific URLs the AI uses as references when it mentions your brand.",[81,189,191],{"id":190},"step-3-correct-the-source-data","Step 3: Correct the Source Data",[14,193,194],{},"When you identify inaccurate AI claims, trace where the model pulled the information. AI engines often pull from third-party review sites, developer documentation, or outdated press releases. Updating those primary sources corrects the data that the AI scrapes and cites.",[81,196,198],{"id":197},"step-4-measure-svo-metrics-alongside-traditional-seo","Step 4: Measure SVO Metrics Alongside Traditional SEO",[14,200,201],{},"Expand your reporting dashboard. Along with measuring traditional website traffic and organic keyword rankings, track your brand's citation growth, AI Overview inclusion rate, and direct-traffic conversions.",[14,203,204,205,212],{},"To see how modern search strategies connect directly to pipeline, explore our comprehensive",[206,207,211],"a",{"href":208,"rel":209},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fexpert-digital-marketing-services\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization\u002F",[210],"nofollow"," Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) services",".",[24,214,216],{"id":215},"supporting-ai-visibility-with-paid-and-analytics-channels","Supporting AI Visibility with Paid and Analytics Channels",[14,218,219],{},"Brand monitoring in AI search provides the insights you need to protect your reputation, but driving consistent revenue requires integrating those insights across your entire marketing stack.",[81,221,223],{"id":222},"reinforcing-visibility-with-targeted-ads","Reinforcing Visibility with Targeted Ads",[14,225,226],{},"When you notice an AI search engine frequently recommending a competitor for a specific high-value query, you can immediately bridge the gap using targeted paid channels. Pairing your organic optimizations with focused digital advertising ensures your software maintains top-of-page visibility while you update and strengthen your organic source content.",[81,228,230],{"id":229},"measuring-real-world-lead-attribution","Measuring Real-World Lead Attribution",[14,232,233],{},"Because buyers often read an AI response and navigate directly to your site later, traditional click-tracking can misattribute those leads as \"Direct\" or \"Organic Brand\" search. Utilizing modern digital analytics allows you to cross-reference offline CRM data, self-reported attribution, and site activity to confirm how AI search visibility influences actual pipeline velocity.",[24,235,237],{"id":236},"summary-protecting-your-brands-digital-reputation","Summary: Protecting Your Brand's Digital Reputation",[14,239,240,243],{},[75,241],{"alt":77,"src":242},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fbfa7aa92-037c-4f2c-8afb-5045bf32ffbc-why-you-should-monitor-image-3.webp","Monitoring your brand in AI search results is no longer optional—it is a critical requirement to protect your reputation, maintain narrative control, and secure your lead pipeline. As conversational engines continue to replace traditional search lists, tech companies that passively ignore their AI mentions risk losing market share to competitors who actively manage their generative presence.",[14,245,246],{},"Establishing a reliable monitoring framework requires dedicated expertise, systematic tracking tools, and continuous iteration.",[14,248,249],{},"At MKG Marketing, we remove the complexity. We provide an experienced, senior-level team that builds and executes your search visibility strategy directly—with no junior handoffs or black-box reporting. We help B2B software and technology companies monitor their digital presence, correct inaccurate AI citations, and convert organic visibility into predictable revenue.",[81,251,253],{"id":252},"protect-and-scale-your-ai-search-visibility","Protect and Scale Your AI Search Visibility",[46,255,256,267,279],{},[49,257,258,261,262,266],{},[52,259,260],{},"Curious how search engines and AI models actually see your brand?"," Our senior-led team breaks down your real-time visibility across AI platforms—no black-box mysteries, just clear data.",[206,263,265],{"href":208,"rel":264},[210]," Explore our Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services"," or book an initial search strategy review.",[49,268,269,272,273,278],{},[52,270,271],{},"Noticing a sudden shift in your traffic or search presence?"," We’re always down to talk strategy and help you make sense of the noise. ",[206,274,277],{"href":275,"rel":276},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fcontact\u002F",[210],"Contact the MKG Marketing team directly"," to schedule a consultation.",[49,280,281,284,285,212],{},[52,282,283],{},"Want to peek under the hood of machine learning?"," Dive into our guide:",[206,286,289],{"href":287,"rel":288},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote\u002F",[210]," AI Search Visibility Ranking Factors 2026: How Machines Decide Who to Quote",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":292},2,[293,294,301,302,308,312],{"id":26,"depth":291,"text":27},{"id":70,"depth":291,"text":71,"children":295},[296,299,300],{"id":83,"depth":297,"text":298},3,"1. Hallucinated Features and Misattributed Limitations",{"id":93,"depth":297,"text":94},{"id":100,"depth":297,"text":101},{"id":126,"depth":291,"text":127},{"id":158,"depth":291,"text":159,"children":303},[304,305,306,307],{"id":176,"depth":297,"text":177},{"id":183,"depth":297,"text":184},{"id":190,"depth":297,"text":191},{"id":197,"depth":297,"text":198},{"id":215,"depth":291,"text":216,"children":309},[310,311],{"id":222,"depth":297,"text":223},{"id":229,"depth":297,"text":230},{"id":236,"depth":291,"text":237,"children":313},[314],{"id":252,"depth":297,"text":253},"seo","2026-08-19T16:01:29.475Z","Why track what ChatGPT and Google say about you? Learn why monitoring brand mentions in AI search results is vital to protect your software company's leads.","md","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F3c12c34c-ad32-459d-b38c-32bc49abb722-why-you-should-monitor-hero-image.webp",{},1,true,"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fwhy-you-should-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search-results",{"title":6,"description":317},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fwhy-you-should-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search-results","-Ozc8xN-BQ2k9giEa4PQdczQMGk8Eg63yFUKh-ezjGw",{"id":328,"title":329,"author":7,"authors":330,"body":331,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":581,"description":582,"extension":318,"img":583,"imgAlt":584,"meta":585,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":586,"seo":587,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":588,"updated":7,"__hash__":589},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote.md","AI Search Visibility Ranking Factors 2026 - How Machines Decide Who to Quote",[9],{"type":11,"value":332,"toc":566},[333,336,339,342,346,353,379,386,389,393,396,399,410,414,417,420,440,444,447,450,454,461,464,468,471,475,478,482,487,492,497,501,504,509,512,517,520,525,529,532,535,539],[14,334,335],{},"In 2026, the old playbook for getting found online just doesn't hit the same. Modern B2B buyers aren't scrolling through pages of blue links anymore. Instead, they’re going straight to tools like ChatGPT Search, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews to compare software features, stack up vendors, and build their shortlists in seconds.",[14,337,338],{},"Here’s the thing: AI engines don’t read websites the way traditional search crawlers used to. Old-school crawlers were all about keyword density, backlink totals, and meta tags to index pages in a directory. But large language models (LLMs) and retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) systems look at the bigger picture. They care about how your information is structured, verified, and contextualized.",[14,340,341],{},"If your tech brand isn't formatted for machine readability, your website essentially becomes invisible to the very engines your buyers rely on every single day.",[24,343,345],{"id":344},"how-ai-search-engines-select-sources-in-2026","How AI Search Engines Select Sources in 2026",[14,347,348,349,352],{},"To understand how your brand gets quoted or recommended by AI, it helps to look at what happens behind the scenes. When a user enters a complex prompt, such as ",[38,350,351],{},"\"What are the top enterprise cybersecurity platforms for multi-cloud compliance?\",","  an AI search engine processes the request through four specific steps:",[132,354,355,361,367,373],{},[49,356,357,360],{},[52,358,359],{},"Deconstructing the Prompt:"," The system breaks the question down to identify the core subject, key concepts, and what the user is actually trying to accomplish.",[49,362,363,366],{},[52,364,365],{},"Retrieving Relevant Data:"," Rather than pulling up a list of web addresses based on exact keywords, the engine searches its database for content that semantically matches those underlying concepts.",[49,368,369,372],{},[52,370,371],{},"Evaluating Content Structure and Source Authority:"," The system analyzes potential sources. It checks whether the text is clearly formatted, whether the facts match other reliable references, and whether the publishing site demonstrates real-world authority on the subject.",[49,374,375,378],{},[52,376,377],{},"Synthesizing the Answer and Linking Sources:"," The engine extracts direct passages from the top-rated sources, writes a unified response, and attaches clickable links so the user can verify where the information came from.",[24,380,382,385],{"id":381},"the-core-2026-ai-search-visibility-ranking-factors",[75,383],{"alt":77,"src":384},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fee360449-da4d-4dfe-a8b0-4ac440db5ad4-ai-visibility-1.png","The Core 2026 AI Search Visibility Ranking Factors",[14,387,388],{},"Based on industry observations and current AI search visibility benchmarks for 2026, AI search algorithms look at six critical factors when deciding which sources deserve a quote:",[81,390,392],{"id":391},"_1-information-gain-and-uniqueness","1. Information Gain and Uniqueness",[14,394,395],{},"AI engines exist to synthesize what's already out there. If your article just repeats the same generic overview that ten other websites published, an LLM has zero reason to cite your brand. Information Gain measures how much new, non-redundant value a page brings to the table.",[14,397,398],{},"To score high here, your content needs:",[46,400,401,404,407],{},[49,402,403],{},"Proprietary research, benchmark surveys, and original data.",[49,405,406],{},"Direct commentary from verified subject matter experts.",[49,408,409],{},"Real-world implementation metrics and detailed technical breakdowns.",[81,411,413],{"id":412},"_2-machine-readable-content-formatting-semantic-chunking","2. Machine-Readable Content Formatting (Semantic Chunking)",[14,415,416],{},"LLMs process web pages in \"chunks\" rather than reading articles sequentially from start to finish. If your key insights are buried inside massive walls of text with generic subheadings, the retrieval model is going to miss the context entirely.",[14,418,419],{},"Winning sites use explicit, machine-readable formatting:",[46,421,422,428,434],{},[49,423,424,427],{},[52,425,426],{},"Question-and-Answer Headers:"," Use direct H2 and H3 subheadings that mirror natural-language user queries.",[49,429,430,433],{},[52,431,432],{},"Bottom-Line-First Declarations:"," State the direct answer or main takeaway in the very first sentence beneath a heading before diving into the details.",[49,435,436,439],{},[52,437,438],{},"Clean Data Tables and Lists:"," Present technical comparisons, feature breakdowns, and numerical data using structured HTML tables and bulleted lists.",[81,441,443],{"id":442},"_3-entity-consistency-and-schema-markup","3. Entity Consistency and Schema Markup",[14,445,446],{},"AI search engines build vast knowledge graphs of \"entities\" (companies, products, executives, and concepts). For an engine to confidently recommend your SaaS platform, it has to verify that your brand is a recognized, trusted entity in your category.",[14,448,449],{},"Implementing detailed JSON-LD Schema markup, including Organization, SoftwareApplication, Article, and FAQPage schemas, gives search engines clear, explicit data about what you offer. When your on-page Schema matches external mentions across review platforms, news outlets, and industry databases, the LLM’s confidence score goes way up.",[81,451,453],{"id":452},"_4-technical-answer-density","4. Technical Answer Density",[14,455,456,457,460],{},"Answer density is all about the concentration of real, factual value relative to your total word count. Unedited AI fluff—filled with generic intros like ",[38,458,459],{},"\"In today's fast-paced digital world...\"","—completely dilutes your message.",[14,462,463],{},"In 2026, AI retrieval systems favor high-density content that delivers precise technical facts, clear definitions, and actionable steps without any extra noise.",[81,465,467],{"id":466},"_5-multi-source-digital-co-citations","5. Multi-Source Digital Co-Citations",[14,469,470],{},"An LLM rarely relies on a single web page to build an answer, it cross-references multiple sources to verify facts. If your platform is mentioned with positive sentiment across third-party review sites, developer forums, PR releases, and partner docs, generative engines see your site as an authoritative industry reference.",[81,472,474],{"id":473},"_6-demonstrable-e-e-a-t-signals","6. Demonstrable E-E-A-T Signals",[14,476,477],{},"Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness (E-E-A-T) are as foundational as ever. AI engines actively look for proof that a real human with hands-on experience created or reviewed the content. Explicit author bios linked to verified LinkedIn profiles, direct quotes from company leaders, and clear links to primary sources all reinforce your site's trust score.",[14,479,480],{},[52,481,109],{},[14,483,484],{},[38,485,486],{},"\"Understanding these technical AI ranking factors is essential for tech brands today. AI engines don't read content for entertainment—they crawl websites looking for structured facts they can instantly trust and quote. Structuring your site for machine readability isn't just an optimization tactic; it is the only way to protect your digital footprint and ensure your software stays on your buyers' shortlists as traditional search continues to evolve.\"",[14,488,120,489,491],{},[52,490,9],{},", Founder & CEO of MKG Marketing",[14,493,494],{},[75,495],{"alt":77,"src":496},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F76a1ca67-794d-4085-afd3-68d0afbbb963-ai-visibility-2.png",[24,498,500],{"id":499},"combining-technical-ai-formatting-with-a-full-funnel-growth-strategy","Combining Technical AI Formatting with a Full-Funnel Growth Strategy",[14,502,503],{},"Appearing in AI search answers is a critical first step, but visibility alone does not close enterprise software deals. To convert that visibility into actual sales pipeline, tech companies need to connect their organic search efforts with paid channels and accurate tracking.",[14,505,506],{},[52,507,508],{},"Combining Organic and Paid Reach",[14,510,511],{},"When an AI engine routinely quotes your brand as an industry authority, buyers build trust before they ever speak with your sales team. Companies can build on that momentum by pairing organic optimizations with targeted digital advertising. Running paid campaigns aimed at accounts searching for your software category ensures your brand stays visible in both sponsored ads and generated AI responses.",[14,513,514],{},[52,515,516],{},"Tracking Real-World Influence",[14,518,519],{},"Because AI Overviews often answer questions directly on the screen, traditional \"last-click\" measurement tools no longer tell the full story. Using modern digital analytics allows marketing teams to track direct site traffic, self-reported source data, and sales cycle speed. This gives leadership a clear view of how search visibility actually drives revenue.",[14,521,522],{},[75,523],{"alt":77,"src":524},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F221ea7d6-aa63-4d37-a9dd-78f35fdc9bf6-ai-visibility-3.png",[24,526,528],{"id":527},"future-proofing-your-brand-for-ai-search","Future-Proofing Your Brand for AI Search",[14,530,531],{},"Winning visibility in modern AI search comes down to three practical elements: clear site structure, verified real-world expertise, and a consistent presence across the web. As AI tools change how people research software, relying solely on old keyword-stuffing tactics will cause your brand to fall behind.",[14,533,534],{},"At MKG Marketing, we specialize in helping B2B software and cybersecurity organizations navigate these complex search shifts. Our flat, senior-led structure means you work directly with experienced digital strategists, never junior handoffs. We deploy our unified Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) framework to ensure your website is structured for machine readability, citable by leading AI tools, and built to drive qualified sales pipeline.",[81,536,538],{"id":537},"take-control-of-your-ai-search-visibility","Take Control of Your AI Search Visibility",[46,540,541,550,558],{},[49,542,543,544,549],{},"Ready to see how AI search engines view your website? Explore our",[206,545,548],{"href":546,"rel":547},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fexpert-digital-marketing-services\u002F",[210]," Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services"," or schedule an initial search strategy review with our senior team.",[49,551,552,553,557],{},"Have questions about your site's technical structure or recent traffic changes?",[206,554,556],{"href":275,"rel":555},[210]," Contact MKG Marketing directly"," to speak with a digital search expert.",[49,559,560,561,212],{},"Want to learn more about the shift from traditional SEO to answer engine optimization? Read our guide on",[206,562,565],{"href":563,"rel":564},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo\u002F",[210]," AI Search vs Traditional Search: Navigating the Shift to SVO",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":567},[568,569,577,578],{"id":344,"depth":291,"text":345},{"id":381,"depth":291,"text":385,"children":570},[571,572,573,574,575,576],{"id":391,"depth":297,"text":392},{"id":412,"depth":297,"text":413},{"id":442,"depth":297,"text":443},{"id":452,"depth":297,"text":453},{"id":466,"depth":297,"text":467},{"id":473,"depth":297,"text":474},{"id":499,"depth":291,"text":500},{"id":527,"depth":291,"text":528,"children":579},[580],{"id":537,"depth":297,"text":538},"2026-08-11T17:38:25.303Z","How do AI engines choose which websites to quote? Discover the core AI search ranking factors for 2026 and how to get your brand cited.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Ff37f521d-b3f6-49bb-8b34-f6ddf2fa1770-mkg-blog-ai-search-visibility-ranking-factors.webp","AI Search Visibility Factors 2026",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote",{"title":329,"description":582},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote","GHGZ8GxZZuusE2EtxJnbEsvoFD1-j4sXRse2vwlYz5U",{"id":591,"title":592,"author":7,"authors":593,"body":594,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":897,"description":898,"extension":318,"img":899,"imgAlt":900,"meta":901,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":902,"seo":903,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":904,"updated":7,"__hash__":905},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo.md","AI Search vs Traditional Search - Navigating the Shift to Search Visibility Optimization (SVO)",[9],{"type":11,"value":595,"toc":877},[596,599,603,606,616,620,623,634,641,645,648,655,662,665,668,671,682,685,690,693,696,701,706,713,716,783,787,790,793,804,808,811,815,818,822,825,829,832,839,842,845,848,852],[14,597,598],{},"For nearly two decades, the digital playbook for B2B software and tech companies was tried and true: pick your keywords, optimize your site, build backlinks, and win the glory of a top ten spot on a page of blue links. Today… not so much. You might notice your organic website traffic dropping even though your keyword rankings haven't changed. The reason isn't that your competitors suddenly bought more backlinks—it is because the fundamental way people look for information has evolved. Users are moving away from traditional engines and turning to conversational models, leaving marketing leaders to navigate the massive operational shift between ai search vs traditional search engines. Fixing this isn't about buying more links; it’s about changing how your website presents information to be indexed by both humans and algorithms.",[24,600,602],{"id":601},"the-core-differences-ten-blue-links-vs-synthesized-answers","The Core Differences: Ten Blue Links vs. Synthesized Answers",[14,604,605],{},"To understand why traditional search engine optimization (SEO) is no longer enough on its own, we have to look at how user behavior and technology have diverged.",[14,607,608,609,612,613,212],{},"When analyzing ai-driven search engines vs traditional search engines differences, the distinction comes down to ",[38,610,611],{},"retrieval"," versus ",[38,614,615],{},"synthesis",[81,617,619],{"id":618},"traditional-search-the-index-and-click-engine","Traditional Search: The Index and Click Engine",[14,621,622],{},"Traditional search engines operate as massive directory indices. A user types a query like \"best enterprise CRM for SaaS,\" and the engine returns pages of indexed links ranked by relevance, domain authority, and technical optimization. The user must then:",[132,624,625,628,631],{},[49,626,627],{},"Click into three to five separate websites.",[49,629,630],{},"Read through intro fluff and sales copy.",[49,632,633],{},"Manually synthesize the data to make a decision.",[14,635,636,637,640],{},"This model relies on driving traffic ",[38,638,639],{},"to"," your website. Your site is the destination where the user finds the answer.",[81,642,644],{"id":643},"ai-search-the-direct-answer-engine","AI Search: The Direct Answer Engine",[14,646,647],{},"AI tools like ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, and Google AI Overviews bypass the directory model entirely. They do not just fetch links; they read, cross-reference, and summarize content from across the web into a single, cohesive answer right inside the search interface.",[14,649,650,651,654],{},"When comparing traditional vs ai search results rankings, the target moves from ranking #1 on a keyword list to becoming the primary ",[38,652,653],{},"cited source"," inside an LLM's generated summary. If an AI overview answers your prospect's question completely on the search page, they won't click through to your blog—even if you rank at the top of the organic list.",[24,656,658,661],{"id":657},"why-software-companies-are-losing-traffic-the-zero-click-reality",[75,659],{"alt":77,"src":660},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fa22194a2-19e3-4d2b-a42e-4ad5c6d95b69-click.png","Why Software Companies Are Losing Traffic (The Zero-Click Reality)",[14,663,664],{},"This structural shift explains the mysterious drop in website sessions across B2B software and tech sectors. Buyers are getting their answers without ever visiting your domain.",[14,666,667],{},"When considering ai enterprise search vs traditional enterprise search, enterprise software buyers are no longer hunting through lengthy technical documentation manually. They are asking AI engines to summarize product capabilities, compare pricing structures, and aggregate user reviews into single tables.",[14,669,670],{},"If your marketing strategy relies exclusively on legacy SEO tactics, you face three major risks:",[46,672,673,676,679],{},[49,674,675],{},"Zero-Click Erosion: Higher-funnel informational traffic evaporates as AI Overviews satisfy search intent directly on the results page.",[49,677,678],{},"Loss of Brand Mindshare: If LLMs aren't trained on or citing your content, your product simply doesn't exist during the buyer's initial research phase.",[49,680,681],{},"Vanity Metric Misalignment: Your SEO agency may report stable keyword positions, but your inbound lead forms and phone calls tell a very different story.",[81,683,109],{"id":684},"expert-insight-from-mkg-marketing",[14,686,687,689],{},[38,688,114],{},"AI is making the decision on what it's going to show the user. The system decided your content was the most trustworthy, most citable answer to that exact question for that exact person. Writing something good and checking the ‘helpful content’ boxes doesn't get you there. Those are very different bars.",[14,691,692],{},"‘Helpful’ is table stakes. It's what gets you into the building, not into the room where the AI is assembling its answer.",[14,694,695],{},"What gets you cited is specificity: The right category. Website & Page Structure. Consistent messaging across your entire footprint. A point of view that the model can actually extract and reuse with confidence.",[14,697,698,699],{},"So when Google says ‘just be helpful,’ they're not wrong. They're just leaving out about 80% of what actually matters. And the companies that take that advice at face value are going to watch their visibility collapse while their content quality stays perfectly fine.",[38,700,114],{},[14,702,120,703,705],{},[52,704,9],{},", CEO & Founder of MKG Marketing",[24,707,709,712],{"id":708},"the-evolution-moving-from-seo-to-svo-aeo-and-geo",[75,710],{"alt":77,"src":711},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F4dd65826-2a82-444b-9693-b6845e4438c0-meeting.png","The Evolution: Moving from SEO to SVO, AEO, and GEO",[14,714,715],{},"To stay visible and continue generating qualified pipeline, marketing executives must expand their organic framework beyond traditional boundaries. This requires a modern, multi-layered approach:",[717,718,719,735],"table",{},[720,721,722],"thead",{},[723,724,725,729,732],"tr",{},[726,727,728],"th",{},"Framework",[726,730,731],{},"Full Name",[726,733,734],{},"Primary Objective",[736,737,738,750,761,772],"tbody",{},[723,739,740,744,747],{},[741,742,743],"td",{},"SEO",[741,745,746],{},"Search Engine Optimization",[741,748,749],{},"Ranking pages on traditional search engine results pages (SERPs) for targeted keywords.",[723,751,752,755,758],{},[741,753,754],{},"AEO",[741,756,757],{},"Answer Engine Optimization",[741,759,760],{},"Structuring data so voice assistants and snippet engines can pull direct, succinct answers.",[723,762,763,766,769],{},[741,764,765],{},"GEO",[741,767,768],{},"Generative Engine Optimization",[741,770,771],{},"Formatting brand narrative, statistics, and domain expertise so LLMs ingest and cite your brand.",[723,773,774,777,780],{},[741,775,776],{},"SVO",[741,778,779],{},"Search Visibility Optimization",[741,781,782],{},"The Unified Strategy: Maximizing total brand presence across both traditional links and AI answer engines.",[81,784,786],{"id":785},"how-search-visibility-optimization-svo-solves-the-gap","How Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Solves the Gap",[14,788,789],{},"SVO doesn't discard traditional SEO; it unifies SEO, AEO, and GEO into a single operational framework.",[14,791,792],{},"Rather than chasing raw session counts, SVO focuses on Information Gain and Citations. To win citations in AI-generated answers, your web content must feature:",[132,794,795,798,801],{},[49,796,797],{},"Clear, Schema-Structured Data: Helping bots identify who you are, what your software does, and who you serve without guessing.",[49,799,800],{},"First-Party Expertise (E-E-A-T): Unique data points, proprietary benchmark reports, and expert commentary that LLMs cannot synthesize from generic web text.",[49,802,803],{},"Direct Answer Formatting: Clear, concise definitions at the top of technical pieces that allow answer engines to extract key takeaways cleanly.",[24,805,807],{"id":806},"practical-steps-to-adapt-your-search-strategy-today","Practical Steps to Adapt Your Search Strategy Today",[14,809,810],{},"Shifting your company's digital presence to capture both traditional and AI-driven search doesn't require scrapping your entire content library. It requires restructuring how your information is delivered.",[81,812,814],{"id":813},"_1-optimize-for-high-information-gain","1. Optimize for High Information Gain",[14,816,817],{},"Eliminate generic, top-of-funnel fluff articles that summarize widely available knowledge. AI engines already summarize that data effortlessly. Focus instead on deep, opinionated, original content: teardowns of real customer implementation challenges, original survey data, and niche technical workflows.",[81,819,821],{"id":820},"_2-standardize-entity-and-brand-citations","2. Standardize Entity and Brand Citations",[14,823,824],{},"Ensure your brand's core value proposition, product categories, and technical terminology are consistent across external review sites, Wikipedia entries, PR releases, and your own domain. LLMs establish trust by cross-referencing brand information across multiple authoritative sources.",[81,826,828],{"id":827},"_3-track-pipeline-impact-over-pure-clicks","3. Track Pipeline Impact over Pure Clicks",[14,830,831],{},"Recognize that a drop in informational blog clicks does not automatically mean a drop in revenue. If an AI search tool cites your software as the top recommendation for an enterprise query, the prospect may navigate directly to your pricing or contact page to initiate a call. Measure branded search volume, direct traffic, and pipeline velocity alongside traditional organic metrics.",[24,833,835,838],{"id":834},"summary-adapting-to-how-buyers-search-today",[75,836],{"alt":77,"src":837},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F1a47aa4c-b986-4fd6-b30d-5ff622a02239-brain.png","Summary: Adapting to How Buyers Search Today",[14,840,841],{},"The debate surrounding ai search vs traditional search engines isn't about choosing one platform over the other. Traditional search engines will continue to process billions of queries, but AI-driven answer engines are rapidly capturing high-intent B2B research behavior. If software and tech companies want to keep filling their sales pipelines with new customers, they must adapt to how people search today.",[14,843,844],{},"Succeeding in this new landscape requires a refined strategy, technical precision, and continuous testing across evolving engine algorithms.",[14,846,847],{},"At MKG Marketing, we eliminate the guesswork. We provide a senior-led team of digital experts who handle your search strategy and technical execution directly—with zero handoffs to junior staff. We help growing tech organizations build future-proof organic engines that drive clear visibility, authoritative citations, and real business revenue.",[81,849,851],{"id":850},"ready-to-modernize-your-search-strategy","Ready to Modernize Your Search Strategy?",[46,853,854,862,869],{},[49,855,856,857,861],{},"Organic search is constantly shifting. Let’s figure it out together. We help tech leaders cut through the noise and build search strategies that actually drive growth. Explore our ",[206,858,860],{"href":208,"rel":859},[210],"Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services"," or book your initial search strategy review.",[49,863,864,865,278],{},"Skip the generic SEO agency playbook. Our senior team works alongside you to build a tailored search strategy that gets your brand seen. Ready to fix traffic drops or scale what’s already working? ",[206,866,868],{"href":275,"rel":867},[210],"Contact MKG Marketing today",[49,870,871,872,212],{},"Ready to learn more about content quality in the age of artificial intelligence? We got you covered:",[206,873,876],{"href":874,"rel":875},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings\u002F",[210]," Is AI Content Bad for SEO? How to Scale Traffic Without Sacrificing Rankings",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":878},[879,883,886,889,894],{"id":601,"depth":291,"text":602,"children":880},[881,882],{"id":618,"depth":297,"text":619},{"id":643,"depth":297,"text":644},{"id":657,"depth":291,"text":661,"children":884},[885],{"id":684,"depth":297,"text":109},{"id":708,"depth":291,"text":712,"children":887},[888],{"id":785,"depth":297,"text":786},{"id":806,"depth":291,"text":807,"children":890},[891,892,893],{"id":813,"depth":297,"text":814},{"id":820,"depth":297,"text":821},{"id":827,"depth":297,"text":828},{"id":834,"depth":291,"text":838,"children":895},[896],{"id":850,"depth":297,"text":851},"2026-08-05T15:31:00.000Z","Traditional SEO is shifting. Learn how AI search engines are disrupting the ten blue links and how to win brand mentions in LLM responses.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Ff8233c21-a553-4cdf-b08e-62ba6de46295-mkg-blog-ai-search-vs-traditional-search-hero-image.webp","Stop Chasing Clicks, Capture Direct-Answer AI",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo",{"title":592,"description":898},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo","-gpi5KK10pDxINv9ruMKWl6jS80jXrfnRRxBeMsFrVE",{"id":907,"title":908,"author":7,"authors":7,"body":909,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":1138,"description":1139,"extension":318,"img":1140,"imgAlt":1141,"meta":1142,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":1143,"seo":1144,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":1145,"updated":7,"__hash__":1146},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization-svo-monthly-overview-july-2026.md","Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Monthly Overview - July 2026",{"type":11,"value":910,"toc":1130},[911,917,966,972,1008,1014,1049,1055,1082,1088,1091,1096,1099,1102,1122],[24,912,914],{"id":913},"executive-summary-the-tldr",[52,915,916],{},"Executive Summary (The TL;DR)",[46,918,919,931,942,954],{},[49,920,921,924,925,930],{},[52,922,923],{},"Google Refines Helpful Content Systems:"," The",[206,926,929],{"href":927,"rel":928},"https:\u002F\u002Fadelev8.com\u002Fblog\u002Fgoogle-july-2026-helpful-content-update",[210]," July 2026 Helpful Content Update"," shifts evaluation metrics from blunt site-wide penalties to granular, section-level filtering, strictly penalizing synthetic, low-effort material while rewarding verified practitioner expertise.",[49,932,933,936,937,212],{},[52,934,935],{},"AI Overviews Expansion:"," Google integrated live news carousels and direct image generation inside AI Overviews, which now feature in approximately",[206,938,941],{"href":939,"rel":940},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.artificialintelligence-news.com\u002Fnews\u002Fgoogle-ai-overviews-us-searches\u002F",[210]," 43% of US searches",[49,943,944,947,948,953],{},[52,945,946],{},"Search Console Controls Updates:"," Site owners can now explicitly manage and isolate content inclusion within AI Overviews and AI Mode via",[206,949,952],{"href":950,"rel":951},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.numinix.com\u002Fblog\u002Fjuly-2026-seo-algorithm-news-update\u002F",[210]," updated Search Console controls"," without sacrificing baseline organic rankings.",[49,955,956,959,960,965],{},[52,957,958],{},"AEO and Third Party Integration:"," ChatGPT’s integration of live third-party platform data (such as",[206,961,964],{"href":962,"rel":963},"https:\u002F\u002Fsearchengineland.com\u002Fgoogle-to-update-local-services-ads-policies-in-july-479653",[210]," Yelp reviews, ratings, and photos",") forces B2B and B2C brands to optimize their multi-platform digital footprints beyond owned properties.",[24,967,969],{"id":968},"algorithm-technical-seo-updates",[52,970,971],{},"Algorithm & Technical SEO Updates",[46,973,974,986,997],{},[49,975,976,979,980,985],{},[52,977,978],{},"The July 2026 Helpful Content Update:"," Google deployed a ",[206,981,984],{"href":982,"rel":983},"https:\u002F\u002Fseovendor.co\u002Fgoogle-algorithm-updates-july-2026\u002F",[210],"targeted update"," to its Helpful Content System, tightening synthetic content detection and increasing E-E-A-T weightings. Unlike previous iterations that carried a risk of broad site-wide demotions, this update introduces granular section-level assessments, permitting well-authored pages on otherwise mixed-quality domains to retain visibility.",[49,987,988,991,992,996],{},[52,989,990],{},"Global Spam Countermeasures:"," Running alongside minor core adjustments, ",[206,993,995],{"href":950,"rel":994},[210],"a global spam update"," rolled out to refine SpamBrain heuristics, targeting systemic manipulation patterns rather than isolated link-building tactics.",[49,998,999,1002,1003,1007],{},[52,1000,1001],{},"Search Console Shifts:"," Platform-wide properties and explicit GEO isolation controls ",[206,1004,1006],{"href":950,"rel":1005},[210],"went live",", enabling technical leaders to partition content accessibility for generative experiences without damaging classic organic indexing.",[24,1009,1011],{"id":1010},"geoaeo-updates",[52,1012,1013],{},"GEO\u002FAEO Updates",[46,1015,1016,1026,1037],{},[49,1017,1018,1021,1022,1025],{},[52,1019,1020],{},"AI Overview Saturation & Features:"," Market intelligence indicates AI Overviews now appear in roughly",[206,1023,941],{"href":939,"rel":1024},[210],", fundamentally altering click-through dynamics. July updates added real-time news carousels and native AI-generated image creation directly into query responses, shifting user engagement loops.",[49,1027,1028,1031,1032,1036],{},[52,1029,1030],{},"Cross-Platform Citation Shifts:"," ChatGPT expanded its retrieval architecture by integrating live third-party review and vector data (including",[206,1033,1035],{"href":962,"rel":1034},[210]," Yelp reviews and ratings","), illustrating that LLM engines rely heavily on aggregated ecosystem trust signals rather than just corporate web properties.",[49,1038,1039,1042,1043,1048],{},[52,1040,1041],{},"The \"Ghost Citation\" Phenomenon:"," ",[206,1044,1047],{"href":1045,"rel":1046},"https:\u002F\u002Fsearchengineland.com\u002Fai-halftime-report-h1-2026-483912",[210],"Emerging tracking data"," highlights that AI engines frequently synthesize information from third-party aggregators and forums, leaving primary creators uncredited unless structured entities are explicitly claimed and verified.",[24,1050,1052],{"id":1051},"strategic-implications-for-leaders",[52,1053,1054],{},"Strategic Implications for Leaders",[46,1056,1057,1063],{},[49,1058,1059,1062],{},[52,1060,1061],{},"What to ignore:"," Short-term ranking fluctuations and mass content deletions. High-volume, automated articles no longer hold value under current search filters, making rapid content generation counterproductive.",[49,1064,1065,1068],{},[52,1066,1067],{},"Where to pivot:",[46,1069,1070,1076],{},[49,1071,1072,1075],{},[52,1073,1074],{},"Clean up low-value content:"," Review site pages for thin or AI-generated text. Replace surface-level summaries with original research, customer case studies, and expert data that language models cannot replicate.",[49,1077,1078,1081],{},[52,1079,1080],{},"Standardize off-page brand data:"," Align Schema markup, corporate records, and third-party profiles across major directories and review platforms. Search engines and AI systems rely heavily on external sources to verify company authority.",[24,1083,1085],{"id":1084},"looking-ahead",[52,1086,1087],{},"Looking Ahead",[14,1089,1090],{},"Google historically issues a major core algorithm update in late Q3. Growth teams should focus on deepening coverage within core subject areas rather than publishing broadly across adjacent topics.",[24,1092,1094],{"id":1093},"search-visibility-optimization-svo",[52,1095,168],{},[14,1097,1098],{},"Maintaining search traffic now requires managing three distinct channels: standard web indexing, answer engine citations (AEO), and generative search layouts (GEO).",[14,1100,1101],{},"MKG assists growth-stage technology companies with:",[46,1103,1104,1110,1116],{},[49,1105,1106,1109],{},[52,1107,1108],{},"GEO and AEO Audits:"," Evaluating brand presence and citation rates across ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews.",[49,1111,1112,1115],{},[52,1113,1114],{},"Structured Data Infrastructure:"," Aligning Schema markup and technical index controls to safeguard search presence.",[49,1117,1118,1121],{},[52,1119,1120],{},"Pipeline Attribution Modeling:"," Measuring how generative search visibility impacts customer acquisition costs (CAC) and deal velocity.",[14,1123,1124,1125,1129],{},"To review your domain's generative search visibility, ",[206,1126,1128],{"href":275,"rel":1127},[210],"schedule a consultation"," with an MKG search specialist.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1131},[1132,1133,1134,1135,1136,1137],{"id":913,"depth":291,"text":916},{"id":968,"depth":291,"text":971},{"id":1010,"depth":291,"text":1013},{"id":1051,"depth":291,"text":1054},{"id":1084,"depth":291,"text":1087},{"id":1093,"depth":291,"text":168},"2026-08-04T16:16:55.368Z","Stay updated on the July 2026 search landscape: Google’s granular Helpful Content Update, AI Overviews reaching 43% of US searches, new Search Console controls for AI Mode, and ChatGPT's integration of third-party platform data.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F9bacf7c4-18eb-47f1-87fb-986cba555a73-Copy of 11766_(1920x1080) (7).png","close-up image of a blue pushpin marking a location on a detailed paper map",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization-svo-monthly-overview-july-2026",{"title":908,"description":1139},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization-svo-monthly-overview-july-2026","5pxN68DR_qIaFWWZtTFVVhPfAFuFaWVgo_xonw8Dtw0",{"id":1148,"title":1149,"author":7,"authors":7,"body":1150,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":1460,"description":1461,"extension":318,"img":1462,"imgAlt":1463,"meta":1464,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":1465,"seo":1466,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":1467,"updated":7,"__hash__":1468},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings.md","Is AI Content Bad for SEO? How to Scale Traffic Without Sacrificing Rankings",{"type":11,"value":1151,"toc":1444},[1152,1159,1165,1168,1183,1186,1189,1203,1210,1213,1217,1220,1226,1237,1243,1246,1252,1263,1265,1270,1273,1276,1281,1286,1293,1300,1303,1309,1312,1318,1321,1332,1338,1341,1348,1357,1364,1371,1376,1379,1394,1400,1406,1409,1416,1420],[14,1153,1154,1155,1158],{},"Let’s answer the question on every marketing leader’s mind right away: ",[52,1156,1157],{},"No, AI content is not inherently bad for SEO."," Google does not automatically penalize text simply because an artificial intelligence model generated it. In fact, Google’s official Search guidelines state that the search engine ranks content based on its helpfulness, relevance, and quality—not on who (or what) typed the words.",[14,1160,1161,1162],{},"However, there is a massive caveat that every modern CMO and VP of Marketing must understand: ",[52,1163,1164],{},"publishing unedited, mass-produced AI text is a fast track to losing traffic.",[14,1166,1167],{},"While AI can drastically accelerate your research and drafting phases, relying on raw algorithm outputs to power your organic search strategy will inevitably hurt your brand. The internet is quickly becoming flooded with synthesized, low-effort fluff. Search engines are aggressively updating their algorithms to identify and down-rank generic copy that fails to bring new value to the web.",[14,1169,1170,1171,1174,1175,1178,1179,1182],{},"So, ",[52,1172,1173],{},"does AI-generated content impact SEO?"," Absolutely—for better or for worse depending entirely on ",[38,1176,1177],{},"how"," you use it. To navigate this new era of search, B2B software and tech companies must learn how to safely leverage AI as an efficiency tool while keeping senior human strategy in full control. ",[75,1180],{"alt":77,"src":1181},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fe5fe90d6-da9d-42d8-8ca3-5c601eb33fc8-ai-content-bad-for-seo-1.png","What Google Actually Cites About AI-Generated Content",[14,1184,1185],{},"A widespread myth floating around boardrooms is that Google possesses a universal \"AI detector\" that immediately penalizes any site using machine learning tools. This misconception has led to two extreme behaviors: organizations either banned AI entirely out of fear, or they went all-in, firing editorial teams and pumping out hundreds of unvetted AI articles a month.",[14,1187,1188],{},"Both approaches are flawed. Google’s position on AI content is clear and consistent:",[46,1190,1191,1197],{},[49,1192,1193,1196],{},[52,1194,1195],{},"Intent matters over medium:"," If you use automation, including generative AI, primarily to manipulate search rankings, it is considered a violation of Google's spam policies.",[49,1198,1199,1202],{},[52,1200,1201],{},"Quality is the ultimate benchmark:"," If your content offers original information, insightful analysis, and clear utility to the searcher, Google will reward it—regardless of whether AI helped draft the paragraphs.",[14,1204,1205,1206,1209],{},"This distinction rests on Google’s ",[52,1207,1208],{},"E-E-A-T framework",": Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness.",[14,1211,1212],{},"Generative AI models are trained on existing web data; by design, they scrape, synthesize, and regurgitate information that has already been published. They cannot draw from personal background, run proprietary benchmark studies, or conduct interviews with industry veterans. Therefore, raw AI content inherently lacks the \"First-Hand Experience\" and deep \"Expertise\" required to satisfy modern search criteria.",[24,1214,1216],{"id":1215},"why-copy-pasting-ai-copy-destroys-your-organic-traffic","Why Copy-Pasting AI Copy Destroys Your Organic Traffic",[14,1218,1219],{},"If Google doesn't penalize AI text on principle, why are so many tech sites seeing their organic impressions plummet after launching automated content initiatives? The answer lies in the subtle traps of machine-generated prose.",[81,1221,1223],{"id":1222},"_1-the-information-gain-problem",[52,1224,1225],{},"1. The Information Gain Problem",[14,1227,1228,1229,1232,1233,1236],{},"Search engine algorithms are increasingly prioritizing ",[52,1230,1231],{},"Information Gain","—a metric that measures whether a piece of content adds ",[38,1234,1235],{},"new"," facts, perspectives, or data points to a topic compared to existing index results. When an AI tool drafts an article, it simply summarizes what the top ten results on Google are already saying. It offers zero information gain. If your page is merely an average of what is already online, Google has no incentive to rank you above established competitors.",[81,1238,1240],{"id":1239},"_2-hallucinations-and-brand-risk",[52,1241,1242],{},"2. Hallucinations and Brand Risk",[14,1244,1245],{},"Large Language Models (LLMs) are predictive engines, not factual databases. They routinely invent statistics, misquote technical documentation, and present incorrect product capabilities with total confidence. Publishing hallucinated facts erodes consumer trust and signals to search crawlers that your site lacks basic editorial integrity.",[81,1247,1249],{"id":1248},"_3-the-homogenization-of-brand-voice",[52,1250,1251],{},"3. The Homogenization of Brand Voice",[14,1253,1254,1255,1258,1259,1262],{},"B2B tech buyers are sophisticated. They can spot low-effort, synthetic writing instantly. Text bloated with hollow transitions (",[38,1256,1257],{},"\"In today's fast-paced digital landscape...\""," or ",[38,1260,1261],{},"\"It is crucial to leverage...\"",") signals to prospects that your company lacks real point-of-view authority. If your content sounds identical to every competitor using the same prompts, you lose your market positioning.",[24,1264,109],{"id":684},[14,1266,1267,1269],{},[38,1268,114],{},"The AI has no reason to pick yours over theirs. It's looking for something it can confidently reuse, and if your version doesn't add anything new, you're background noise.",[14,1271,1272],{},"So instead of writing more, I'm going page by page through what already exists and asking one question: does this page say something that no other page on the internet says?",[14,1274,1275],{},"Original data. A real client pattern you documented. A first-person account of what actually happened when you tried the thing everyone recommends. ",[14,1277,1278,1279],{},"That's what AI pulls in. The generic stuff is what AI already has forty versions of. It doesn't need yours.",[38,1280,114],{},[14,1282,120,1283,1285],{},[52,1284,9],{},", CEO of MKG Marketing",[24,1287,1289,1292],{"id":1288},"how-to-safely-use-ai-as-a-marketing-assistant-not-a-lead-strategist",[75,1290],{"alt":77,"src":1291},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fc8d0926d-82b9-42f9-85f4-3c433da82d78-ai-content-bad-for-seo-2.png","How to Safely Use AI as a Marketing Assistant (Not a Lead Strategist)",[14,1294,1295,1296,1299],{},"To succeed in search today, modern tech companies don't need to abandon AI; they need to integrate it into a ",[52,1297,1298],{},"human-led editorial workflow",". AI should act as the junior analyst that handles heavy administrative lifting, while senior strategists serve as the editorial director.",[14,1301,1302],{},"Here is how high-growth organizations use AI tools safely without putting their search performance at risk:",[81,1304,1306],{"id":1305},"_1-accelerate-research-and-formatting",[52,1307,1308],{},"1. Accelerate Research and Formatting",[14,1310,1311],{},"Use AI to synthesize lengthy transcripts, cluster search intent, organize raw data, and draft initial structural outlines. Asking an AI tool to suggest five logical structural flows for a technical guide saves hours of brainstorming without diluting your editorial voice.",[81,1313,1315],{"id":1314},"_2-inject-proprietary-data-and-human-storytelling",[52,1316,1317],{},"2. Inject Proprietary Data and Human Storytelling",[14,1319,1320],{},"Once a rough outline or foundational draft exists, a subject matter expert (SME) must step in. Inject real-world elements that an algorithm can never produce:",[46,1322,1323,1326,1329],{},[49,1324,1325],{},"Customer case studies and real implementation metrics.",[49,1327,1328],{},"Direct quotes from internal product architects or sales engineers.",[49,1330,1331],{},"Unique takeaways or counter-intuitive opinions that challenge status-quo industry advice.",[81,1333,1335],{"id":1334},"_3-rigorous-fact-checking-and-editorial-oversight",[52,1336,1337],{},"3. Rigorous Fact-Checking and Editorial Oversight",[14,1339,1340],{},"Every claim, statistic, and technical instruction generated during the drafting phase must be verified by a human editor. Ensure the tone matches your brand guidelines and eliminate boilerplate AI phrasing.",[14,1342,1343,1344,1347],{},"Want to see how your current search strategy measures up against the latest engine updates? Explore our comprehensive",[206,1345,211],{"href":208,"rel":1346},[210]," or book an initial search strategy review with our senior team today.",[24,1349,1351,1354],{"id":1350},"beyond-traditional-seo-preparing-for-search-visibility-optimization-svo",[75,1352],{"alt":77,"src":1353},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F2cd275b2-b56c-4864-b728-e18e54f45370-ai-content-bad-for-seo-3.png",[52,1355,1356],{},"Beyond Traditional SEO: Preparing for Search Visibility Optimization (SVO)",[14,1358,1359,1360,1363],{},"The debate over whether AI-generated content ",[52,1361,1362],{},"is good for seo"," is part of a much larger shift in how users find information. Search is no longer confined to a list of ten blue links on a traditional search results page.",[14,1365,1366,1367,1370],{},"With the rapid adoption of AI Overviews, ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity, users are increasingly getting direct answers synthesized and generated right inside search interfaces. This shift means that optimizing purely for keyword clicks is no longer enough. You must optimize for ",[52,1368,1369],{},"total brand visibility"," across AI search models and traditional engines alike.",[14,1372,1373,1374,212],{},"This evolution is what we call ",[52,1375,168],{},[14,1377,1378],{},"To win in an SVO-driven ecosystem, your content must be authoritative enough that AI models choose to cite your brand as the primary source of truth. Generic, auto-generated articles will never be cited by AI search tools because those articles lack original authority. The only way to capture mindshare in both AI answers and traditional search lists is by publishing high-gain, expert-driven content that clearly demonstrates E-E-A-T.",[14,1380,1381,1382,1387,1388,1393],{},"If your organic reach is stalling due to changing algorithms, taking a holistic view of your digital presence is essential. Aligning your organic content strategy with high-intent paid acquisition via",[206,1383,1386],{"href":1384,"rel":1385},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.google.com\u002Fsearch?q=https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fservices\u002Fdigital-advertising\u002F",[210]," Digital Advertising"," and measuring true user journeys through robust",[206,1389,1392],{"href":1390,"rel":1391},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.google.com\u002Fsearch?q=https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fservices\u002Fanalytics\u002F",[210]," Digital Analytics"," ensures your marketing engine generates pipeline—not just empty clicks.",[24,1395,1397],{"id":1396},"summary-adapting-your-search-engine-strategy-for-long-term-growth",[52,1398,1399],{},"Summary: Adapting Your Search Engine Strategy for Long-Term Growth",[14,1401,1402,1403,1405],{},"To recap: ",[52,1404,1173],{}," Yes. If you treat AI as a magic shortcut to generate hundreds of unvetted blog posts, your search visibility will eventually collapse; quickly building a house out of AI sticks won’t protect you when the Big Bad Search Engine Wolf comes calling. But if you treat AI as an efficiency engine that supports a human-led, expert-driven content pipeline, you can scale output without sacrificing rankings.",[14,1407,1408],{},"As search engines adapt to the flood of synthetic content, companies must adapt how they communicate with their buyers. The brands that win over the next decade won't be those that avoid AI, nor will they be those that hand their entire marketing strategy over to algorithms. The winners will be the organizations that pair cutting-edge tools with an authentic, human-driven brand voice.",[14,1410,1411,1412,1415],{},"At ",[52,1413,1414],{},"MKG Marketing",", we don't pass your search strategy off to junior account managers or unmonitored software bots. We provide an experienced, senior-led team that handles both the high-level strategy and technical execution directly. We help B2B tech and software companies navigate complex search updates, build a sustainable organic pipeline, and maintain complete operational control over their brand narrative.",[24,1417,1419],{"id":1418},"ready-to-build-a-future-proof-search-strategy","Ready to Build a Future-Proof Search Strategy?",[46,1421,1422,1429,1436],{},[49,1423,1424,1425,212],{},"Learn how our senior-led team can audit and elevate your organic reach.",[206,1426,1428],{"href":208,"rel":1427},[210]," Explore our Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services & Strategy Reviews",[49,1430,1431,1432,278],{},"Have immediate questions about your traffic or upcoming search updates?",[206,1433,1435],{"href":275,"rel":1434},[210]," Contact the MKG Marketing Team directly",[49,1437,1438,1439,212],{},"Want to dive deeper into modern search trends? Read our latest guide:",[206,1440,1443],{"href":1441,"rel":1442},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002F",[210]," Beyond Last-Click: How to Measure Marketing Influence in an AI-First World",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1445},[1446,1451,1452,1457,1458,1459],{"id":1215,"depth":291,"text":1216,"children":1447},[1448,1449,1450],{"id":1222,"depth":297,"text":1225},{"id":1239,"depth":297,"text":1242},{"id":1248,"depth":297,"text":1251},{"id":684,"depth":291,"text":109},{"id":1288,"depth":291,"text":1292,"children":1453},[1454,1455,1456],{"id":1305,"depth":297,"text":1308},{"id":1314,"depth":297,"text":1317},{"id":1334,"depth":297,"text":1337},{"id":1350,"depth":291,"text":1356},{"id":1396,"depth":291,"text":1399},{"id":1418,"depth":291,"text":1419},"2026-07-31T16:42:23.391Z","Does AI-generated content impact SEO? Discover how to safely use AI tools to build traffic and why copy-pasting generic text will hurt your rankings.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fa2137492-5860-4960-8c3b-cc662b7514b0-mkg-blog-is-ai-content-bad-for-seo.webp","Is AI Content Bad for SEO",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings",{"title":1149,"description":1461},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings","JTYjNLnGw7cBodE7MWP1BtwoH_ZZOdJiYIWSI_-KtQc",[1470,1890,2617],{"id":1471,"title":1472,"author":7,"authors":1473,"body":1474,"caption":7,"category":1766,"date":1767,"description":1768,"extension":318,"img":1769,"imgAlt":1770,"meta":1771,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":1773,"seo":1774,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":1775,"updated":7,"__hash__":1776,"people":1777},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fleadership\u002Fai-agencies-and-the-future-of-expertise-with-kerry-guard.md","AI, Agencies, and the Future of Expertise with Kerry Guard",[9],{"type":11,"value":1475,"toc":1759},[1476,1480,1483,1486,1489,1491,1495,1506,1510,1513,1516,1519,1522,1525,1528,1531,1534,1537,1540,1543,1546,1549,1552,1555,1558,1561,1564,1567,1570,1573,1576,1579,1582,1585,1588,1591,1594,1597,1600,1603,1606,1609,1612,1615,1618,1621,1624,1627,1630,1633,1636,1639,1642,1645,1648,1651,1654,1657,1660,1663,1666,1669,1672,1675,1678,1681,1684,1687,1690,1693,1696,1699,1702,1705,1708,1711,1714,1717,1720,1723,1726,1729,1732,1735,1738,1741,1744,1747,1750,1753,1756],[81,1477,1479],{"id":1478},"overview","Overview",[14,1481,1482],{},"AI is reshaping how agencies operate, but it’s not a simple replacement story. In this conversation, Kerry Guard explores the tension between speed and expertise—where some companies are leaning heavily on AI, while others are realizing that tools alone can’t replace strategic thinking.",[14,1484,1485],{},"Kerry breaks down why low-quality “AI slop” is on the rise, how agencies can evolve instead of becoming obsolete, and why product–market fit still matters more than ever.",[14,1487,1488],{},"The takeaway is clear: AI will change how work gets done, but real value will come from the teams who know how to use it with clarity, depth, and purpose.",[81,1490],{"id":77},[24,1492,1494],{"id":1493},"take-a-listen","Take a listen",[1496,1497],"iframe",{"dataTestid":1498,"style":1499,"src":1500,"width":1501,"height":1502,"frameBorder":1503,"allowFullScreen":322,"allow":1504,"loading":1505},"embed-iframe","border-radius:12px","https:\u002F\u002Fopen.spotify.com\u002Fembed\u002Fepisode\u002F4wzSHptRmd4o5leirfk10l\u002Fvideo?utm_source=generator",624,351,"0","autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture","lazy",[81,1507,1509],{"id":1508},"transcript","Transcript:",[14,1511,1512],{},"Alex 0:00",[14,1514,1515],{},"It's all right, it's Alex on the highways podcast episode 61, we have with us, Jake, hello as usual. And also joining today is Kerry Guard. Nice to have you, Kerry. So we were just sort of riffing offline about how agencies are being disrupted with AI. So let's get into that, because that's kind of like a really burning topic, and we haven't really talked about that, Jake, have we? We've talked a lot about the technical side of AI and business models and related to, like, a typical kind of company situation, but we haven't talked about the agency side. So that is this",[14,1517,1518],{},"Jake 0:43",[14,1520,1521],{},"So that's the part we should do, though, because it's kind of how we both ended up here.",[14,1523,1524],{},"Alex 0:49",[14,1526,1527],{},"Yes, that is right. We've gone from we've gone from agency to product and more platform stuff. But anyway, you're an agency. You're an agency. So maybe you can sort of just give us your perspective, like where you kind of were, like, in terms of the agency world, and then take us to today, with the current AI situation.",[14,1529,1530],{},"Kerry Guard 1:15",[14,1532,1533],{},"Yeah. I mean, it's interesting and exciting. There are sort of two camps in how AI has impacted the agency world before. We were very much looked towards as the experts that we were bringing on for our expertise, that we were going to help create extra manpower and support in terms of making sure that content production is going to end up in the SERPs, so on and so forth. And now with AI, it's sort of splitting into two camps. One camp is which literally just happened to us, where we got let go because they figured the marketing manager could do everything that we were doing, thanks to the help of AI. On the flip side, we just got hired because the VP of Marketing said that their marketing manager was too dependent on AI, and she was running in circles and didn't know which way was up, and needed help, and brought us and is now bringing us off. So the AI psychosis, literally, yeah, so it's definitely impacting us, but I also feel like it's an opportunity in terms of helping people understand that AI is great for people to use it as something that makes you go faster when already having the information and knowing what it is and being an expert In the space and then having AI at your disposal makes you be able to go so much deeper and faster at the same time, which we never really had before. Either you had people very shallow but going very fast, or you had people very deep, going very slow. And now there's this, like a lovely middle ground, but you still need the expert in the seat to do the thing.",[14,1535,1536],{},"Jake 3:00",[14,1538,1539],{},"I agree. There's, you know, I think, not to, not to sound like I'm whining here, but there's a, there's a lot of people these days like running Claude code boot camps and open claw boot camps that, who knows how they're actually applying both of those technologies in their day to day, but they suddenly have a group of 1000 people that they're training, or they're getting experts in, or they're outsourcing, I'm not entirely sure. So I think that the hot there is a gold rush as well, and in that gold rush, there are still people that are shallow, but running faster than ever.",[14,1541,1542],{},"Kerry Guard 3:43",[14,1544,1545],{},"Yeah, but it's dangerous. Who's it dangerous for? Gosh, everybody, I mean, especially for the end user, right? Like the amount of slop out there that we have to sort through to get to the good information is like compounding very quickly, right? And if you don't have users, then you don't have money and opportunity to, you know, do more, right? So like, I feel like, if we ostracize them, most importantly, we're in deep trouble. But then even for ourselves, you know, doing really good work and feeling good about it and putting good out into the world. Yeah, I think it's something we're losing, and that's just kind of a bummer. In my opinion.",[14,1547,1548],{},"Jake 4:32",[14,1550,1551],{},"I would agree with that. I also think Alex likes to come back to a conversation that we had earlier, because I feel like the chicken and egg situation these days is really egg before chicken, whichever way you want to see that. But you know, growing an audience and then building the product is a new model that I think is more prevalent now because of things like AI and people being able to build MVPs very quickly. Vibe, coded tools, or even just AI content or distribution of content through automated systems that people are building an audience, such as the open core boot camp, and then they're finding a way to, like, crowbar some sort of product into it. Now that might seem a little bit unethical, but the one moat that AI doesn't have is distribution, and that's also, I guess, that's what I think is dangerous, at least, I think that is dangerous, giving people who don't know what they're doing a potential massive audience to do some real harm. I mean, we can just switch this into a different topic now, because it's very relevant. But the Louis Theroux documentary, I've not seen it, but, you know, I think that the outcome of that documentary, I'm not sure if you know what I'm talking about, Kerry about the enter the manosphere, regardless of what you think about the topic, the I think the takeaway for me was the there's a lot of people out there, just generally in the world, regardless of whatever sphere that they exist in, that have insane amounts of power, insane amounts of influence, through building audiences in a certain topic, or just sounding like an authority in something that they might not necessarily be an expert in.",[14,1553,1554],{},"Kerry Guard 6:24",[14,1556,1557],{},"Yeah, super dangerous. I Yeah. That documentary was definitely eye-opening for so many, not for others. It was sort of a no-duh. It's an interesting conversation that's sort of happening on, you know, the social media platforms. But I would agree, I the echo chamber, right? Getting caught up in that echo chamber, and then the algorithms learning what you're interested in, I'm always so afraid to click on certain things, like in LinkedIn, of like, Oh no, I'm going to comment on this, and then it's all I'm going to see for a while, right? Of like, and I don't want to be stuck in that. I want to see other points of view, and yeah, and what other people might think about it, not be just constantly served the same thing over and over again, but that's what happens, right? And now with AI, people will go have these conversations. It's like that, not, I mean, it's kind of on topic, kind of off topic. But like, you know, the school shooting that happened in canada was it a shooting or stabbing that happened in Canada because somebody was on AI and they were constantly being fed validation of their actions, of going and having the shooting, and how to do it right? So like, just that reiteration, whether it's happening through conversation with AI or coming around you from a channel perspective, totally dangerous and somewhere where we're going to be interesting to see who starts to put some guard rails up. I know Anthropic is a great company to be doing that. I hope they do continue to do that and lead the way and show what that needs to be, because, yeah, we're going to end up with some scary things that happen in those echo chambers, for sure.",[14,1559,1560],{},"Jake 8:03",[14,1562,1563],{},"I think it's a human thing, though, as well. I don't know if you're guilty of this, but having conversations with AI, and I mean in voice mode, I've had conversations with AI in voice mode, my biggest criticism, and I guess why I don't do it anymore, is because it's boring. It just goes around in a loop. It will agree with you, and then you agree with it, and then that's it. The End of the conversation. It happens after about three minutes. Really, there's no more depth after it, and you'll have forgotten what else you wanted to say, because it will have given you a 32nd answer reflecting back at you what you wanted to hear.",[14,1565,1566],{},"Kerry Guard 8:41",[14,1568,1569],{},"I push it a lot. I say, you know, stop blowing smoke. Tell me what you really think. Go look at the experts. So, I'm as an agency, one of the things I'm finding specifically in the SEO space, is that there's a lot of fragmentation happening in terms of how people are talking about showing up, whether it's in traditional SEO or the answer engines, or now generative engines, right? And so I'm trying to unify it now to just say, Listen, let's just talk about this as search visibility optimization. It doesn't matter where your audience is in terms of how they're searching for you, but you need to make sure you're showing up across the board. And in doing so, I'm talking to AI through it, and I said, What's the difference between off-page SEO and GEO? Because there's this argument happening on LinkedIn right now about, like, everybody's like, good SEO will be good AEO and good Geo. And I'm like, Ah, not really. Like, geo is a whole different beast, and you really have to think about that differently. And if we don't define it and just depend on what traditional SEO has done for us. We're never going to actually show up in the llms, and that's a problem, because the llms one day is going to take over. And so I actually asked Gemini and said, Are these two separate things? And Gemini was like, Absolutely not. They are the same thing. Saying off-page is the same as on-page. And I poked at it and worked through it, and I said, here's how I'm thinking about it. And then it came around and, like, agreed with me. And I was like, Okay, well, now it's agreeing with me, and we're stuck in a loop. And so I went over to Claude, and I had the same conversation with Claude. Claude was like, No, these are two different things. They have to stay that way. And I was like, well, here's how I'm thinking about it. And Claude was like, actually, that's really valid, and here's why. And it's like, backed up from all these different sources as to why, this makes a ton of sense. And so it's, it's interesting, of like, how these different platforms are even thinking. And then, to your point of like, yeah, the validation immediately happens. And then it's like, Okay, now what? Yeah, I agree. Even in different platforms, it's happening like, Okay, now, what do we do and where do we go from here, in terms of making sure that we're thinking beyond what the AI can give us exactly?",[14,1571,1572],{},"Jake 10:55",[14,1574,1575],{},"Yeah, I think nailed it there, thinking beyond what the AI can give us, perfect, perfect framing. Because really, the AI, we've had this conversation a couple of times. I had it last Friday. It gives an average, it gives you an average answer, literally average. So thinking beyond it is important to differentiate if you gave it to conflict in perspectives, and then you asked it to make an average of those conflicting perspectives, as long as it wasn't the typical average, then it would be slightly different. But generally, if you ask it a broad question, or for guidance, it's going to give you something very average, and it will agree with you. And I think that you know, as a human, you have a confirmation bias. You want somebody, you want something to agree with you. You don't necessarily want it. You don't want to go. Is this a good idea? And you go, No, that's a stupid.",[14,1577,1578],{},"Kerry Guard 11:54",[14,1580,1581],{},"No, but you do want something that will question you. So I do think putting in parameters, like I'll ask it to ask me, like, what gaps am I missing here? What? What are other people talking about? Is this already being talked about? Right? Go out there and tell me, I'll sort of find ways to prompt it to almost have it disagree with me in multiple to see if it can disagree with me in multiple ways. And sometimes it does. I'll write a LinkedIn post, and they'll be like, This is crap, and here's why. Like, thank you for that. That's what I needed. I'm trying to write off more than I could chew. It's way too long. It's trying to create too many points. I'm known for that on LinkedIn. But like, having it actually tell me that is super helpful, but I've had to train it to do that, which you can do. It just takes effort.",[14,1583,1584],{},"Jake 12:42",[14,1586,1587],{},"I think Alex, at this point, I know that. I'm not sure we usually ask, but I think we have to give Kerry a little bit of Kerry. Why don't you tell us what you do and tell the audience?",[14,1589,1590],{},"Kerry Guard 12:55",[14,1592,1593],{},"Sure. So I own a digital marketing agency, and have for the last 15 plus years, we've always been remote, and that's why I get to live in the UK while the rest of my team is in the US, primary, primarily work with B to B Tech, SAS, companies in the US, helping them scale and build up through SEO and digital ads, making sure that they're found and visible, and that when users can see them and understand their brand, and then they Go search for them, that they're the answer.",[14,1595,1596],{},"Jake 13:22",[14,1598,1599],{},"That was lovely. That was the best",[14,1601,1602],{},"Alex 13:25",[14,1604,1605],{},"I want to get into something. I want to get into something. Kerry, you say 15 years, so you've been, you've seen a lot in the agency space. Myself and Jake were in-house, in-house markers. So we worked in the tech industry. We worked for the same company for a while, and we also work together on projects, on agency stuff. And I feel like I would say again around chat, GPT launch, like 2022 - 23, something changed. Something changed. I think that, how can I say, like, the value of what we do change? Because suddenly people had access to all that computing for $20 a month, right? And a lot of the guys we used to work with suddenly started doing stuff themselves, as we talked about before, the pod. Then it feels like value creation. And you've seen this for the stock prices of all the big agencies, the big the blue chip ones, wpps, it's been, it's been flattened, right? You can't charge what you used to charge the business models, the billable hour. Business models are kind of broken now. So I think my question is, how do you, how do you, how do you put a price on value creation now, in this in this time when there's basically free compute and AI.",[14,1607,1608],{},"Kerry Guard 14:38",[14,1610,1611],{},"So it comes down to, I mean, for us, we do still go back into hours just to make sure we understand how much time things are generally taking. But it hasn't necessarily been that we dilute or come down in price over time. It's that now we can just do more. More and be more effective. So when I come, when I talk to clients, I'm like, Well, we have the faster we have the faster plan. So it's two plans. You can either go faster, you can go faster, because that's really what it comes down to these days, you know, we can give you in terms of SVL, we can we can give you all of the content briefs and all of the land. But can you actually implement them? Well, probably not. So let's not, if you're scaling up and you're just starting, doesn't make sense for us to be throwing, you know, 10 to 15 assets at you a month, right? So we're going to go on the fast plan, which makes more sense for the resources you have, or if you're digital ads, depending on your ads budget, right? Like we can't, it doesn't make sense for us to charge an agency fee based off of ad spend in terms of percentage when you're not really spending, you know, 25k plus, and even then, like, the percentage needs to be in relation to really, How many platforms, how many campaigns, what's actually being managed, versus just because you're spending more money? Just because you're spending more money doesn't mean it's necessarily more work for us. So in terms of how we're quantifying it, it's really, really it still comes down to hours and speed and what the client can navigate on their end, in terms of what we're giving them and our expertise, it is a premium because we hire people with 10 plus years of experience, who've done this for a long time, who know what they're doing, who can respond relatively quickly because they aren't learning it as they're doing it. And so I think that also comes down to it, as well as the account direction team that we have, the strategy team that's implemented, right? We don't just give you an SEO expert. We make sure that they're supported in the communication and in the strategic insight that's that's coming out. So it's that holistic team that is also coming to the table with that expertise, versus just that one person constantly pumping out, you know, a thing over and over again. It's based in data, it's based in the expertise. And that's really the value that we're bringing and how we're valuing it, from a from $1 standpoint.",[14,1613,1614],{},"Jake 17:15",[14,1616,1617],{},"I'm gonna push back against Alex in Kerry's team here, but I think, I think it's like this, like the value of what you're describing, in some ways, it almost shouldn't change, because it's human-related. Whereas I feel like, if you take, let's say that you're an automation agency, then the value of that service is still being figured out, you know, because people might not necessarily understand the value of it at that point. On the client side, somebody might say, Well, these guys said that they're gonna automate it, and it will whip up 100 articles every minute. You know, then how you know? You don't know the quality of that, whereas in the Kerry model, at least you have some sort of like, well, for this process, this is the predicted outcome, because we've done this and it's built on X amount of years of experience. So I think on the future side, a lot of value surrounding things using AI is still really being defined. It's still being figured out. Because it's like, imagine, back in the day when websites were new, people go, Oh, you've got to get a website. Well, how much do I pay for a website? Do I pay $100 do I pay $1,000 like, what's the website going to do? How many people are going to find it? Is it going to be SEO ready? Is there somebody that's going to take care of that? So it's like, if you don't know anything about websites, let's just say that you were a business, you know, in the late 90s, and you're not going to understand the value of it, either. And I think we're in a stage right now where everything's crashing because of AI, but we still haven't figured out what's valuable in this new landscape. But what we know is what's valuable in the old landscape, and that's, I guess, in some ways, more predictable, and something that people can trust more easily.",[14,1619,1620],{},"Kerry Guard 19:16",[14,1622,1623],{},"I will say outcomes are really important to you. To what you said, Jake, in regards to, we never want to, you know, if we're working with a company who's making an ARR of 3 million a year, right, we're not going to charge the same as somebody who's making 65 million. Again, that comes down to the resources they have, right? 65 million versus 3 million, they have way more resources. But the same time, the math has to math, right? There has to be a return on what we're producing and how we're bringing in pipeline and and that that there is a return on that investment, and we make sure of that, you know through the reporting that we do, but when we're putting a scope of work together, it's hard to say we know for sure that you're going. Make this kind of revenue in this time without really digging in and wrapping our arms around the company, but we look to get there because we think that's important, to make sure that it's all compounding over time towards that pipeline. Create for sure.",[14,1625,1626],{},"Alex 20:13",[14,1628,1629],{},"Yeah. I also think the thing that people overlook with service businesses is that it's very on trend right now to focus on product, like Claude, ChatGPT, like all these AI products, right? And so we're all, all the next generation in, in, in these companies are like, Oh, I can just use ChatGPT. I guess Claude, it's product, product, product, right? But at the end of the day, like you see these companies themselves, like chat open, AI literally announced yesterday they're going to focus on enterprise. The whole team had a big meeting internally, and they said, We need to focus on enterprise, because that's where the you know that those those customers, those enterprise customers, are way more valuable than a 20 bucks a month, you know, guy so obviously, Anthropic is doing really well with enterprise and customer-focused enterprise. So I think, yeah, I think there's like, I think there's like, right now, there's just this bubble about AI products, and in the long run, it will kind of bend. The arc will bend back towards like, value, actual value creation, and service.",[14,1631,1632],{},"Kerry Guard 21:23",[14,1634,1635],{},"Industries head to this all the time, right? Cybersecurity is a great example of this, if we were to sort of mirror them. One, cyber is a bit ahead of AI. And so right now, there's a lot of consolidation happening in cyber, because people are realizing that certain features that they now need, they could just buy a company that already does that, and now bring it into their company. And so AI is going to eventually, that's just how it goes, right? All these startups pop up for all these specific features, and then they start to consolidate into specific products that do certain thing, you know, multiple features that do certain things. And so we'll see that. But right now, it's definitely that startup of everybody's creating everything. And of course, I'm not surprised, but also like banging my head against the wall a little bit, if you're all going after enterprise, which is a very small subset of how many businesses are really out there, then I think they're all going to crash into each other at some point, and they're going to have to look at where those other businesses that could grow with us, that will eventually be an enterprise or be a bigger business. Man, I hate when companies do that drives me up a wall, like it's so short-sighted to just be like, we're all going to go after enterprise. Well, you and everybody else, and yeah.",[14,1637,1638],{},"Alex 22:39",[14,1640,1641],{},"Yeah, look at the B to B. SaaS stock prices right now. They're all tagging.",[14,1643,1644],{},"Jake 22:44",[14,1646,1647],{},"I also think, though, that, you know, LinkedIn, he's driving that sort of where the traffic is going. Because, you know, one month ago it was lovable. This month, it was like Claude. Next month, I've just seen as well, it's like Claude again. I posted on Twitter, Alex, I don't know whether you saw it, but a lot of this, I just deleted ChatGPT, and now I'm on Claude. It's like, everything's gone crazy this, like last month, but next month it'll be something else, because it was open claw before. It was probably like lovable January, open claw February, and it's been the Claude month this month.",[14,1649,1650],{},"Alex 23:23",[14,1652,1653],{},"But I have another question related to product, actually, do you think so? I saw that WPP, the new lady that took over. WPP, she said, that we're going to be a product-focused agency. We're going to make our own products available to clients. So there's some influencer marketing tool, there's some SEO copywriting tool. Do you think like that is that is kind of really not the direction, like you can't just like you can't convert a service agency into a product company, right? What do you stand with that? Do you think agencies will all need to offer products at some point?",[14,1655,1656],{},"Kerry Guard 23:59",[14,1658,1659],{},"Trying to look like way down the line. My prediction is that it probably will feel and operate a bit like a product, but it's going to be internal of how you sort of set it up, and it operates, and it still needs to have humans and in the loop. But my my, my thinking is that what you'll essentially have is less people doing the work and more overseeing. So like you'll for an SEO team, I'll have one person, but then they'll have like, five agents, and each agent will have a specific job to be done in relation to that SEO person doing their work, so that they're more strategic and thinking about where the business needs to go, versus pulling the keywords down and doing a deep dive into it and seeing what competitors are doing like all this will sort of be served up to them, and then they'll be able to analyze it and then say, Okay, this is where the business needs to go. These are my recommendations. Like. Put together a presentation, and then another agent will go out and actually put together the presentation and bring it back, and then it'll be presented to the client. The client will never see these agents or never interact with them. They'll still be interacting with the humans. But the way that the agency model is going to change is that it's not going to be one person up here managing, you know, four people down here who are then mentioning four people down here. You know, as an org chart normally goes, it's going to be, at some point, an expert of, you know, five to 10 years managing a bunch of agents that are going to help them really think strategically about how to do their job. And I think that. And then the agents will connect across channels as well. So the SEO agents will be talking to digital ad agents. Hey, I'm seeing these keywords work. What are you seeing over there? How do you want to optimize? Here's how I'm thinking about optimizing, right? And they're going to be, we're sort of working together. It's going to feel like a product internally, but I don't know that we can sell it like that, because the client isn't going to be logging into a SaaS product and then telling these agents what to do. You still need a human with the expertise telling the agents and reviewing what the agents are doing and making sure that the work is still getting done to the caliber agency done at so that's and I got I got this because I went to a conference in September, and there was a company there called monks. I don't know if you've heard of them. Oh, yeah, agency, yeah. So they showed off their you know how, and they're doing exactly this. So they have an agent for every job to be done in creating a commercial. So they created a puma commercial. It took them two weeks to do end-to-end. All of the assets were still human. So that created them. The photographs came from humans, of humans, the videos, music, all of it, all the assets, came from creators, real creators of real humans within the photos and the videos. But it was the agents that went out to get those videos, that did the customer research, that stitched things together, that made there was an agent for brand continuity, making sure it was completely on brand end to end. So there, it took them months to build, but now they can pump commercials out in two weeks. That is still the output is still human, and I think that's what's interesting, and I do think that that's probably where agencies need to be thinking about and going. But calling it a product is kind of misleading. In my opinion.",[14,1661,1662],{},"Jake 27:24",[14,1664,1665],{},"I think I'm going to be devils. I'm going to play both sides here. I think it'll be a product, but I also think within that product there will be the sort of customized agentic workflow that does need to be governed by the human, so I don't think that the it's not like the end client is going to be using the product. They may plug their API's of their different stack into wpps new product, but there has to be a manager internally that understands agentic workflows, that can customize those workflows to fit with whatever the needs of that specific client are. Have I played both sides?",[14,1667,1668],{},"Kerry Guard 28:07",[14,1670,1671],{},"Marketers are going to want, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, marketers, I'd love to hear in the comments, but I feel like you don't want to log into another thing to be dealing with a bunch of robots. Like it's like, when you call the bank with a problem, you just want to talk to a freaking human. Please, flow from God, please, just give me a human. Right. I don't want to go through this whole tree of telling you who my mother's maiden name is, you know, whatever. Like, I want a human. Give me a human. I feel like, as you know, an agency, I don't think that's going to go away. I think marketers are still going to want to be able to call up, talk to a human, and say, \" What's going on. Why is this working? Why isn't it? What are we doing about it? What are we going to be doing next? What's coming on the horizon? What are you thinking about? Not just log into a product and hope for the best.",[14,1673,1674],{},"Alex 29:01",[14,1676,1677],{},"I think also the creative piece is interesting, like we talked earlier about hallucinations and stuff. Like, I've been running this open claw for, I think, two months now, and I asked it to schedule content for my own social media as a test, and it doesn't post it, so it just sets up the drafts in my Telegram, and I trained it on all of my social media posts from LinkedIn, Twitter. I dumped all that content from when I signed up to those services into files. I dumped that into the open claw, and the output has been very disappointing from a creative perspective, bang average. And if that's a representation of the creative for all of this stuff that's coming, then the creativity is still going to be the difference.",[14,1679,1680],{},"Jake 29:49",[14,1682,1683],{},"The difference is, got it workflow design, that's the difference, like the creativity and how you design the workflows, what will effectively all. To adjust the endpoint from the average to something that's unique.",[14,1685,1686],{},"Alex 30:06",[14,1688,1689],{},"But you still need a human in the loop, essentially that, yeah, yeah. And also brainstorming and coming up with ideas and trends, jumping on trends, and humor. I mean, they can't do humor, and humor is a big part of barking like the guys are cutting through the noise online. I've got that, that edge in terms of humor, for sure.",[14,1691,1692],{},"Jake 30:29",[14,1694,1695],{},"You know, I've got Alex, when is it is it time? I'm not sure.",[14,1697,1698],{},"Alex 30:34",[14,1700,1701],{},"It's time. Is it time? You have time for one more question?",[14,1703,1704],{},"Jake 30:37",[14,1706,1707],{},"I think it's another question. Then, then it's time. Yeah, okay, yeah, I was, I was gonna say, Kerry, what do you think in the last, I mean, Alex, you said it was about it was the end of it was 2023. We really started seeing this big impact. I still remember when weird we were working with the Chat GPT and nobody else had figured it out at that point. It was just us. But what do you think's been maybe the biggest disruption that you've personally experienced in the last two, two and a bit years?",[14,1709,1710],{},"Kerry Guard 31:16",[14,1712,1713],{},"So I work on websites, my husband is an engineer, and so he taught me how to do just enough to get by with building websites using NextJS, Tailwind, and In View, and it's night and day in terms of what a the caliber of what I can produce. Like, I had one website where it was for a local moving company out in Ohio, and I was like, this is a moving company. Like, this website needs to move. So I was able to create so much thoughtful animation, right just on word, like, just having, if I'm talking about things rearranging, you know, having the words come in and rearrange to the right point, or the only thing you'll have to lift is your coffee, and having that word lift come in, right? So not having overdone it, being really thoughtful and intentional about it, but things I wouldn't have been able to do before because a I didn't know how, and to figure it out would have taken me ages. So I just didn't think it was worth it, right? But now I can add just that little bit of extra flurry to for that customer engagement, right? And that AHA and that wow moment that I wasn't able to do before. And I think that's really again, coming back to what I said earlier. That's the power of AI when you put the tool in the hands of people who have a really good foundational understanding of how things are supposed to work. The output is just so much more phenomenal than what we could have ever done before. And that's that's been the most disruptive, I think, for me personally, and what I'm looking forward to doing more of in the future.",[14,1715,1716],{},"Jake 32:58",[14,1718,1719],{},"Alex, it's a good setup. Very good step. Okay, Kerry, it's time for the final question of the show. Brace yourself. It gets everybody. It's future predictions. What are your future predictions? It could be about anything. It could be your life, your work, the world. Go. Could be agencies?",[14,1721,1722],{},"Kerry Guard 33:22",[14,1724,1725],{},"Yeah, I think, I think we're on a on a turning point with search engine optimization in particular. I think it's very disjointed right now. I think people don't know what to do about it. If I have clients showing up every day asking me, \" How do I show up in chat? GPT, right? Like, that's my traffic is dropping 40%, what do I do about it? So I think the whole marketing, how we do marketing, is about to sort of turn on its head, in regards to what we could get away with before that we can't get away with now, like we could do marketing without true product market fit, right? We could skirt the edges. We could outspend our competitors. We could just have a bigger sales team. And now, if we don't have real product market fit, meaning a problem we really solve that no one else solves, or in a different way, in a way that nobody else solves it, and talk about it in that way consistently almost everywhere, then we're going, we're never going to be found, because you can spend all the dollars and all the land to get seen, but then if people are trying to search for you, to validate what they're seeing, and they can't find you, then your brand is never going to grow and evolve. And so I think we're, we're at a turning point right now with how we show up, from, you know, in marketing, of really having to slow down for a second and understand our customers and really what they go through on a daily basis. How our products show up and support them. And I think we're going to have less products be successful, but they're going to be the better products in the long run anyway. And the marketing is going to get better in doing so and supporting that. It's going to be the next five to 10 years is gonna be really interesting in how AI search, or calling it search visibility optimization, how that really impacts what products actually make it.",[14,1727,1728],{},"Alex 35:29",[14,1730,1731],{},"So 10 blue links are dead, or, Oh yeah, they're dead.",[14,1733,1734],{},"Kerry Guard 35:35",[14,1736,1737],{},"It's, it's a leading indicator, like being knowing that you're ranking top for that keyword in validation to what people are searching for in llms is a leading indicator to the answer engines and to LLMs to say they are an authoritative voice in this space, but it's only one indicator out of many. So yes, you need that, but it's not the only thing you need.",[14,1739,1740],{},"Jake 35:57",[14,1742,1743],{},"I was actually that brings me back. I was about to say this earlier. I'm glad that you reminded me, but I do feel like when the whole LLM SEO, call it what you will, you're more of an expert in it than me. People like, Oh, you've got to hack Reddit, spam Reddit, and Quora, and you'll rank. I think that those kind of tactics are going to disappear, because I agree, I think it's going to be, is this product, or is this service, a credible product or service, not one that's just game to the system, and because we've got the LLM, you'll be able to figure out which ones are gamers and which ones are the real deal quicker.",[14,1745,1746],{},"Kerry Guard 36:39",[14,1748,1749],{},"Yeah. People are panicking right now because there's misinformation out there about their products, because people are gaming the system, but they just need to get out there and keep doing what they're doing. And white hat, black hat's always been a problem, right? So the white hat tactics are always going to win out. Google and Claude, especially, are going to lean into that user experience and always prioritize the user, and in doing so, they're going to prioritize the brands that are showing up in the most morale, the moral way, for sure, in the long run.",[14,1751,1752],{},"Alex 37:13",[14,1754,1755],{},"Oh, not Nope. Did the good guys win? Yeah, that's nice for a change. Normally, we end on like a doom I do more kind of note, so that's good, okay. All right, let's have you back on Kerry in like, a year and see how things are shaping up. Let's do it awesome. All right, guys, that was good. See you in the next one. Take care. Bye. Bye.",[1757,1758],"br",{},{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1760},[1761,1762,1763],{"id":1478,"depth":297,"text":1479},{"id":77,"depth":297,"text":77},{"id":1493,"depth":291,"text":1494,"children":1764},[1765],{"id":1508,"depth":297,"text":1509},"leadership","2026-03-20T12:00:00Z","Kerry joins Alex and Jake on the Hypeworks Podcast to break down how AI is reshaping agencies—creating both risk and opportunity.","\u002Fimages\u002Fhypeworks.webp","Hype Works  Podcast",{"_schema":1772},"default","\u002Fblog\u002Fleadership\u002Fai-agencies-and-the-future-of-expertise-with-kerry-guard",{"title":1472,"description":1768},"blog\u002Fleadership\u002Fai-agencies-and-the-future-of-expertise-with-kerry-guard","nadMTIoImNgnk02Gj2cKTjRtdDObKvmvFatWkDOqfdw",[1778,1831],{"id":1779,"title":9,"body":1780,"date":7,"description":1815,"extension":318,"images":1816,"isLeader":322,"jobTitle":1818,"linkedIn":1819,"meta":1820,"name":9,"navigation":322,"path":1822,"quote":1823,"quoteCite":1824,"ref":1825,"seo":1826,"sequence":321,"stem":1827,"team":1828,"twitter":1819,"updated":7,"website":1829,"__hash__":1830},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fkerry-guard.md",{"type":11,"value":1781,"toc":1812},[1782,1787,1795,1803,1807],[14,1783,1786],{"className":1784},[1785],"text-lg","Kerry Guard (she\u002Fher) is a mom of twins - boy and a girl. She understands what work life balance really looks like and is on a mission to build a company that honors parents having a career and a life. She’s out to prove you really can have both with policies like ensuring 20 days of vacation each year, no client emails after 6PM or weekends, unlimited sick days, and everyday flexibility.",[14,1788,1789,1790,1794],{},"She also hosts our podcast, ",[206,1791,1793],{"href":1792},"\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fmarketing-leaders\u002F","Back on T-R-A-C-K",", which brings eight digital marketing experts to your ears every quarter.",[14,1796,1797,1798,1802],{},"Kerry is responsible for HR. If you’d like to join MKG where people are first and your expertise matter, Kerry will be with you through the entire interview process ensuring each candidate meets the necessary requirements and gets a fair shot. Want to join MKG and Kerry’s mission of bringing People First to as many people as possible? Check out our ",[206,1799,1801],{"href":1800},"\u002Fabout\u002Fjobs\u002F","Jobs page"," and see if we have a position right for you!",[81,1804,1806],{"id":1805},"fun-facts","Fun facts",[46,1808,1809],{},[49,1810,1811],{},"Kerry now lives in Guernsey — a tiny nook in the world between England and France. Come visit for a spot of tea any time!",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1813},[1814],{"id":1805,"depth":297,"text":1806},"Meet Kerry Guard, one of MKG Marketing’s founders. She currently fills the role of CEO of MKG as well as hosting the podcast, Back on T-R-A-C-K.",{"landscape":1817},"kerry-guard.webp","Founder & CEO","kerryguard",{"imageDescription":1821},"Kerry Guard, MKG Marketing’s Owner\u002FCEO, stands on a street in Guernsey with the Town Church behind her | MKG Marketing","\u002Fteam\u002Fkerry-guard","I don’t have to chase extraordinary moments to find happiness — it’s right in front of me if I’m paying attention and practicing gratitude.","Brené Brown","kerry-guard",{"description":1815},"team\u002Fkerry-guard","Leadership","https:\u002F\u002Fkerryguard.com","YRwfwzeXtTw6ls2uWUIyTaK1IWSJr1nWG76vYHgqCgU",{"id":1832,"title":9,"body":1833,"date":7,"description":1880,"extension":318,"images":1881,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":1883,"linkedIn":1819,"meta":1884,"name":9,"navigation":322,"path":1885,"quote":1823,"quoteCite":1824,"ref":1825,"seo":1886,"sequence":1887,"stem":1888,"team":7,"twitter":1819,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":1889},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fkerry-guard.md",{"type":11,"value":1834,"toc":1877},[1835,1839,1862,1868,1871,1873],[14,1836,1838],{"className":1837},[1785],"\nKerry Guard (she\u002Fher) is the strategist founders call when they are tired of guessing. As the CEO of MKG Marketing, she doesn’t just run the agency; she steps into the trenches with clients as a Fractional Marketing Leader. She specializes in helping founders navigate the \"Growth Valley\"—building the systems, strategy, and teams required to scale from traction to expansion.",[14,1840,1841,1842,1845,1846,1849,1850,1853,1854,1857,1858,1861],{},"Her recent work focuses on bringing enterprise-level rigor to growing businesses. She serves as the strategic marketing engine for a diverse portfolio, including ",[52,1843,1844],{},"Rutkowski Law Firm",", ",[52,1847,1848],{},"Fulcrum Enterprise Group",", and ",[52,1851,1852],{},"Premier Office Movers",", where she aligns revenue goals with marketing execution. Whether she is translating complex tech into a go-to-market narrative for ",[52,1855,1856],{},"Avalanche Fusion",", or helping ",[52,1859,1860],{},"Extraordinary Advisors"," amplify their message, Kerry brings clarity and momentum to every leadership team she joins.",[14,1863,1864,1865,1867],{},"She is also the host of ",[206,1866,1793],{"href":1792},", where she interviews CMOs and Founders to uncover the human stories behind high-growth companies.",[14,1869,1870],{},"Kerry proves that high performance doesn't require burnout. As a mom of twins, she built MKG on a \"People First\" methodology—championing policies like 20 vacation days and zero after-hours emails—because she knows that rested, respected experts drive the best ROI.",[81,1872,1806],{"id":1805},[46,1874,1875],{},[49,1876,1811],{},{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1878},[1879],{"id":1805,"depth":297,"text":1806},"Meet Kerry Guard, MKG Marketing’s CEO and Principal Strategist. She works directly with founders to build scalable marketing engines while hosting the podcast, Back on T-R-A-C-K.",{"landscape":1817},false,"Fractional Marketing Leaders",{"imageDescription":1821},"\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fkerry-guard",{"description":1880},5,"team\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fkerry-guard","oOXvRk_JAfbvrAQoDmPize2X6zquuQG1YD5msODvKcE",{"id":1891,"title":1892,"author":7,"authors":1893,"body":1894,"caption":7,"category":1766,"date":2607,"description":2608,"extension":318,"img":2609,"imgAlt":2610,"meta":2611,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":2612,"seo":2613,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":2614,"updated":7,"__hash__":2615,"people":2616},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fleadership\u002Fhow-to-handle-stress-and-pressure-as-a-marketing-ceo-and-parent.md","How to Handle Pressure as a CEO & Parent",[9],{"type":11,"value":1895,"toc":2600},[1896,1898,1905,1909,1935,1937,1942,1944,1947,1950,1953,1956,1959,1962,1965,1968,1971,1974,1977,1980,1983,1986,1989,1992,1995,1998,2001,2004,2007,2009,2012,2015,2018,2021,2024,2027,2030,2033,2036,2039,2042,2045,2048,2051,2054,2056,2059,2062,2065,2068,2071,2074,2077,2080,2083,2086,2089,2092,2095,2098,2101,2104,2107,2110,2113,2116,2119,2122,2125,2128,2131,2134,2137,2140,2143,2145,2148,2151,2154,2157,2160,2163,2166,2169,2172,2175,2178,2181,2184,2187,2190,2193,2196,2199,2202,2205,2208,2211,2214,2217,2220,2223,2226,2229,2232,2235,2238,2241,2244,2246,2249,2252,2255,2258,2261,2264,2267,2270,2273,2276,2279,2282,2285,2288,2291,2293,2296,2299,2302,2305,2308,2311,2314,2317,2320,2323,2326,2328,2331,2334,2337,2340,2343,2346,2349,2352,2355,2358,2361,2364,2367,2370,2373,2376,2379,2382,2385,2388,2391,2394,2397,2400,2403,2406,2409,2412,2415,2418,2421,2424,2427,2430,2433,2436,2439,2442,2445,2448,2451,2454,2457,2460,2463,2466,2469,2472,2475,2478,2481,2484,2487,2490,2493,2496,2499,2502,2505,2508,2511,2514,2517,2520,2523,2526,2529,2532,2535,2538,2541,2544,2547,2550,2553,2556,2559,2562,2565,2568,2571,2574,2577,2580,2583,2586,2589,2592,2595,2598],[81,1897,1479],{"id":1478},[14,1899,1900,1901,1904],{},"Our CEO, Kerry Guard, joined Staci Gray on her podcast, ",[38,1902,1903],{},"The Rooted Founder Show",", to share her journey of balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship. Kerry discusses how MKG Marketing, a people-first remote business, navigates the challenges of managing work while raising children at home. She emphasizes the importance of psychological safety, setting boundaries, and maintaining a supportive company culture.",[81,1906,1908],{"id":1907},"key-moments","Key Moments",[132,1910,1911,1917,1923,1929],{},[49,1912,1913,1916],{},[52,1914,1915],{},"Control and Acceptance",": Kerry talks about the importance of focusing on what one can control, particularly one's own behavior and reactions, in both personal and professional life.",[49,1918,1919,1922],{},[52,1920,1921],{},"Balancing Work and Family",": Kerry shares her approach to juggling work and family responsibilities, emphasizing the need to prioritize and be present in the moment.",[49,1924,1925,1928],{},[52,1926,1927],{},"Setting Boundaries",": Kerry outlines how she sets clear markers for work communication to protect family time and ensure a healthy work-life balance.",[49,1930,1931,1934],{},[52,1932,1933],{},"Personal Growth and Therapy",": Kerry talks about her personal journey in managing stress and anxiety through cognitive behavioral therapy and mentorship.",[24,1936,1494],{"id":1493},[1496,1938],{"style":1499,"src":1939,"width":1940,"height":1941,"frameBorder":1503,"allowFullScreen":322,"allow":1504,"loading":1505},"https:\u002F\u002Fopen.spotify.com\u002Fembed\u002Fepisode\u002F314QW9k5sNix2lhk2LXxKL?utm_source=generator","100%",352,[81,1943,1509],{"id":1508},[14,1945,1946],{},"Kerry Guard [00:00:00]:",[14,1948,1949],{},"And what it came down to was all about what I can control, right? What I can and can't control. And what I can't control, as much as I would love to, is other people. And so it's all about how I behave in relation to that, right. And that's all I can control, is me. And that's really the path that's gotten us, I think, to where we are today. To say, like, okay, what could I have done differently? And mistakes happen, and we're all human. And it's not about dwelling on the mistake. It's just recognizing it happened.",[14,1951,1952],{},"Kerry Guard [00:00:37]:",[14,1954,1955],{},"And now what are we going to do about it to make it better?",[14,1957,1958],{},"Staci Gray [00:00:40]:",[14,1960,1961],{},"Well, welcome. We have another rooted founder episode today. I'm here with Carrie. She's been on once before with her business partner, but I wanted to have her back on to talk about motherhood and entrepreneurship. The journey, one I have not personally been on yet, but I do have 15 nieces and nephews. But I watch a lot of women navigate this, and I thought she would have such good words of wisdom because they have a people first business, a remote business. She works from home with kids, napping in the other room and all the things. So, Carrie, I'm happy you're back here with me today.",[14,1963,1964],{},"Kerry Guard [00:01:19]:",[14,1966,1967],{},"I'm excited to be back. Thank you so much for the invitation. Stacy, it's good to see you.",[14,1969,1970],{},"Staci Gray [00:01:24]:",[14,1972,1973],{},"You too. So, motherhood, entrepreneurship, napping, all the things. I am curious, like, people ask you, how do you balance it all? But for me, the thing that I feel like might help, folks, is the psychological burden of it all. Like, the tabs we have open in our brain as an entrepreneur, and then the tabs we have open in our brain for, like, the home life. How do you handle that side of it?",[14,1975,1976],{},"Kerry Guard [00:02:00]:",[14,1978,1979],{},"No grass growing under your feet. Stacy, buckle up. We are. We are on journey. Um, I would say the struggle is real. I like to think I'm not great at it, quite honestly. I mean, it's like a minute at a time, right? So what's on fire? The hottest right now?",[14,1981,1982],{},"Staci Gray [00:02:20]:",[14,1984,1985],{},"Yeah.",[14,1987,1988],{},"Kerry Guard [00:02:21]:",[14,1990,1991],{},"And on fire could mean just my kids asking for my attention and me being okay with that and recognizing that that's where my energy needs to be. And all these work tabs need to, you know, go on a different screen, you know? You know, we have multiple screens up sometimes, right? So it's like, okay, I'm going to slot work screen over here so that I can put mommy screen over here. And it's just reading the room, right? So a lot of times it's, it's, I mentioned it before you started recording. It's like minute, minute by minute and reading the room. Where are you right now?",[14,1993,1994],{},"Staci Gray [00:03:00]:",[14,1996,1997],{},"Last night we had our, we have a WTF family night. It's with the family and we call it WTF. And the local family comes over and we eat and we were, my significant other and I were both working all day, and then we felt like we were rushing to get to dinner. And I was like, I'm feeling like family is not the priority right now, and I'm feeling guilty about that. Like, I feel like I'd rather be working and that's not the place I really want to be in right now. Like, the family is important and it is more important to me. But it does feel at times like the urgency of certain business things or what's happening there seems more important. And I'm curious, like, how do you, I mean, I know we're not perfect and we make mistakes and, you know, the family member comes in and you're still on the computer, you're looking at your phone, but how do you, like, in those moments, drop in to be able to be present with the family?",[14,1999,2000],{},"Kerry Guard [00:04:06]:",[14,2002,2003],{},"You put it away, which I don't always do. This is a friendly reminder to myself that you don't take your phone to the dining room table.",[14,2005,2006],{},"Staci Gray [00:04:16]:",[14,2008,1985],{},[14,2010,2011],{},"Kerry Guard [00:04:17]:",[14,2013,2014],{},"And you put it away and you know that it'll be there when you get back, which is really hard because it piles on. Right. So I'm not saying this is like the perfect fix by any stretch of the imagination, but it is kind of, the only way to be present is to, is to put it away. Take off your watch. Don't get the notifications. I have very few notes, so I have my, so email is not a notification. I don't, I only get, I only get to see the notifications or know what's going on when I go into my inbox.",[14,2016,2017],{},"Staci Gray [00:04:57]:",[14,2019,2020],{},"I'm set up the same way.",[14,2022,2023],{},"Kerry Guard [00:04:59]:",[14,2025,2026],{},"Yeah, slack. Slack notifications I get because there's only a couple clients I have over there, and so if they're slacking me and you pay attention to that, and then I have my other chat channel with the team. We use zoom chat, and that's only people direct to message me and they have to tell me how urgent it is. Like red, this is on fire. I need you immediately. Yellow when the kids go to bed. If you could just pop on and just confirm this with me, that would be great. And green means I'll talk to you tomorrow about this.",[14,2028,2029],{},"Kerry Guard [00:05:34]:",[14,2031,2032],{},"But just so having those markers is really helpful in creating my own boundaries of, like, what I will and won't do. But it's a progress over perfection. Some days, the world's gonna feel on fire, and that's just where you are for right now. And you gotta be in work, and you're good. You know, it's a minute, like I said, a minute at a time of feeling like you're at a. You're at a spot where you can take a beat, go make dinner, get the kids to bed, and then resume, and you might get interrupted in that time. And that's just kind of the. How the day rolls.",[14,2034,2035],{},"Kerry Guard [00:06:07]:",[14,2037,2038],{},"And you know that tomorrow you can try and do better. But, yeah, it's. It's a struggle. I mean, I know I'm gonna. I know that my kids are gonna have memories of growing up saying, but, mom, you had all those meetings, and, mom, it felt like work was more important than me, but, mom, it's gonna be like, yeah, buddy, I appreciate that. And one day, when you have something that you've built and you feel really proud of, and you're really excited about, you're gonna be here. And I did the best I could with what I had, and it was a balancing act, I think, especially as women. You know, my husband.",[14,2040,2041],{},"Kerry Guard [00:06:43]:",[14,2043,2044],{},"My husband's older than me. He's about ten years older than me. He had the heyday of his. That's like, he's not doing well. Now he is. He's working for a really great company. He's doing really well. But the heyday of his career was before we had kids.",[14,2046,2047],{},"Kerry Guard [00:06:55]:",[14,2049,2050],{},"Right. And so now I have to have the heyday of my career while we have kids.",[14,2052,2053],{},"Staci Gray [00:06:59]:",[14,2055,1985],{},[14,2057,2058],{},"Kerry Guard [00:07:01]:",[14,2060,2061],{},"And that's partially justification for myself of, like, this was the path I chose, and I wanted to have a career, and I wanted to have kids. And I'm taking a day at a time, and I know what my values are. I say to my. I just had it to my daughter. She's so sick of me saying it. She's so sick of me saying it.",[14,2063,2064],{},"Staci Gray [00:07:21]:",[14,2066,2067],{},"How old is she?",[14,2069,2070],{},"Kerry Guard [00:07:22]:",[14,2072,2073],{},"She's eight.",[14,2075,2076],{},"Staci Gray [00:07:23]:",[14,2078,2079],{},"Eight.",[14,2081,2082],{},"Kerry Guard [00:07:25]:",[14,2084,2085],{},"She was asking for something or other, and I was like, ellie, what's my job? To make sure I'm happy, and to make sure I'm healthy, and to make sure I'm a thoughtful contributor to society. Right? Like, I know that decisions I'm making every day as it relates to work or kids has to contribute to those three things. Are they happy? Are they frustrated that I'm having a lot of meetings that are not present. Okay. I gotta make a change to that, right? I, are they healthy? Am I able to take time out of my day to go do the right food shopping and do the right planning that I need to do to make sure I have meals on the table at dinner time and breakfast and lunch? That's going to be healthy and contribute to that and am I sticking my ground? I know I'm really tired. Would I love to give her chocolate before bed because that's what she wants? Yes. Is that going to help or be a thought for contributor to society as well as be healthy and happy? Stick my grounds even though I'm exhausted from working all day and knowing I gotta walk into meetings tonight, like that's just, you know, my guiding, my guiding principles, so to speak, that help me push through.",[14,2087,2088],{},"Staci Gray [00:08:40]:",[14,2090,2091],{},"I love those. And you, I like the red, green, yellow. With your team, have you, what things have you set up with your team to protect your family life?",[14,2093,2094],{},"Kerry Guard [00:08:53]:",[14,2096,2097],{},"So that's one of them. I, I live by my words. So when they're having a family crisis or something's going on for them or they need to be, you know, with their family. Absolutely right. It's not double standard, it's 100%. And so I think leading by example is really important for both giving them the space to go take care of what they need to take care of and showcasing what it looks like for me to take care of what I need to take care of. And so my team, the way that we work remotely from an hour standpoint is very much about defining your hours and sticking to, they have to be somewhat consistent so we can plan accordingly for client meetings and to know if we're having an issue. We know when to get a hold of you internally.",[14,2099,2100],{},"Kerry Guard [00:09:42]:",[14,2102,2103],{},"Right. So I don't care what your hours are between 08:00 a.m. eastern to 08:00 p.m. western. But they have to be consistent. And it's actually 06:00 p.m. pacific. And so I see my team logging off every day at 506:00 their time, right.",[14,2105,2106],{},"Kerry Guard [00:10:02]:",[14,2108,2109],{},"Or whenever their hours are. And so that reminds me to stick to my hours, which are I take a break at five so I stop it. I'm only one in the UK so I have weird hours to my teeth, but I stop at five in theory and I go make dinner for my family and I have a nice dinner with my family. I help get the kids to bed, we have some family time in between. And then I come back on around 830 and I go to ten and so knowing what my hours are and trying to stick to those and then being clear what my hours are with the team, and I let them know. We have a channel in our Zoom chat called general, which is where you tell people where you are. So you say, when you're logging in, you say, when you're logging out, you say, if you gotta go pick up a kid, you say, we don't care. We just need to know because we're not in an office and can look over at your desk and see that you're not there.",[14,2111,2112],{},"Kerry Guard [00:10:57]:",[14,2114,2115],{},"Right. So we need to know that you're coming back. Right. So it's really important that we're open and transparent. So I try and do a. A good job, and I'm not the best at it. I take full responsibility for that, but I try and do a good job to say, hey, I'm online. It's 12:00 my time.",[14,2117,2118],{},"Kerry Guard [00:11:16]:",[14,2120,2121],{},"I'm here for the next 5 hours, and then come 05:00 it's dinner time, and I'll be back. And I let them know when I'm back, and then I let them know when I'm out for the night. So being clear and consistent about where you are and what's going on, which is really hard. Really hard. There was a phase that I went through with my team when we were a bit younger where I was being judged for my behavior because I went out in the middle of the day to go have a bar class because I had to quickly head off because my two year old was having a meltdown. Like, I was being completely judged, and I was like, okay, we're doing a terrible job culture wise to cultivate this. If I'm being judged for how I want my team to be treated. Right.",[14,2123,2124],{},"Kerry Guard [00:12:00]:",[14,2126,2127],{},"So we had to make some changes to make sure that. That. That that change was happening.",[14,2129,2130],{},"Staci Gray [00:12:06]:",[14,2132,2133],{},"I think a lot of people will find themselves in this situation because I've had personal conversations with entrepreneurs where they've even asked their team permission to work out in the morning before coming into the. To the office feeling like they were being judged, like they're not doing enough, they're not showing up the way they should be showing up. So it is a culture reset. Like, how. How would somebody do that? Like, how did you guys do that? Change it from, like, a judgment culture to an acceptance culture around standards takes time.",[14,2135,2136],{},"Kerry Guard [00:12:43]:",[14,2138,2139],{},"Nothing happens overnight.",[14,2141,2142],{},"Staci Gray [00:12:44]:",[14,2144,1985],{},[14,2146,2147],{},"Kerry Guard [00:12:45]:",[14,2149,2150],{},"Your values are your core. So our value has always been people first, but we've had to redefine that over the years to make sure that it's inclusive. So originally, when we defined the value, it was very much about Mike and I taking care of the team, and we weren't included in that. So we had to extend that to how we're all people and we all need to be taken care of, not just internally as a team, but how that translates to our clients. And then it even transformed beyond that to how we take care of our clients customers, in the messaging we build in, how we make sure that we're not advertising in a way that we wouldn't wanna be advertised to, that our emails are really thoughtful and all of those things. So it really had to look at our values and say, why aren't these working the way that they're supposed to? And redefining them that way? So that was definitely a help. I also think Mike and I, like I mentioned, I'm not great at this, but I was really bad at it. I'm not great at it now, but I was terrible at it where I didn't think the rules applied to me.",[14,2152,2153],{},"Kerry Guard [00:13:58]:",[14,2155,2156],{},"So I didn't have to put everything in Asana and put velocity behind it and say what I was doing for the day because nobody checked on I'm non billable and I'm getting stuff done and I'm just making sure your bills are paid and that's all you need to worry about. To an extent. Yeah, to an extent. Right. And also, I felt like you don't need to know where I am, you just need to know that your bills are being paid and you're cool. To an extent. Like, if they can't see that I'm logging on and logging off for the day, and when I'm trackable of when they can get a hold of me, then how can I hold them to the same standard?",[14,2158,2159],{},"Staci Gray [00:14:33]:",[14,2161,2162],{},"Right?",[14,2164,2165],{},"Kerry Guard [00:14:33]:",[14,2167,2168],{},"So I had to change my behavior too, and take accountability of that as well as holding them accountable. At the same time, it felt very much like a double standard. And the perception, the perception was a double standard, and I could have doubled down and be like, it's none of your business and I'm your boss and I am paying the bills, but is that how I want to be treated? Am I upholding the values that way? No. I'd wanted a transparent, accountable owner, and I'd want to know that they're living by the same standards that they're holding me to.",[14,2170,2171],{},"Staci Gray [00:15:07]:",[14,2173,2174],{},"Yeah. I think what you said is, like, we're all humans. Like, even if you're a CEO or you're an individual contributor, we're all human beings and we all have demons and darkness and shadow sides that trip us up and hang us up. And sometimes, like, bosses could be like, well, it's my company. I get to do what I want and not address their own shadow or their own challenges. And you did the exact opposite, which probably contributed so much to the culture change, because it gave permission for the rest of your company, all the other humans, to own their shadows and own their, their darkness and almost create, like, a healing environment for everybody. Did that happen in some way in your company?",[14,2176,2177],{},"Kerry Guard [00:16:01]:",[14,2179,2180],{},"Yeah, they call it. What do they call it? There's like, so when you join MKG, there's like a three month, I call it trial period, but it really is a two way street. We've had. We'd have plenty of people leave us as much as we've declined them.",[14,2182,2183],{},"Staci Gray [00:16:18]:",[14,2185,2186],{},"Right.",[14,2188,2189],{},"Kerry Guard [00:16:18]:",[14,2191,2192],{},"So I want to be clear on that. It's a trial period, but it's for both remote agency, we're a small company. Taking on a new employee is a huge risk for us and for them, you know, before they get into our benefits and all of that. Like, there needs to be a three month, are we good here? And what I realized in doing that and taking those three months to, like, settle into the company and to see if this is really for you is the healing process, because it's the aha. Moments through that of, oh, what they said is their values. Okay, so you are people first organization. And I said I had to go pick up a sick kid and you, and I didn't have to ask permission. And I just said, I'm going to pick up the kid.",[14,2194,2195],{},"Kerry Guard [00:17:01]:",[14,2197,2198],{},"And I was able to do that and have it held against me. Cool. You have the MKG standards, but it's not just this weird woohoo sort of black box. You have them laid out in terms of what it means to create deliverables. And then you have all the templates that go through deliverables and examples, and then you outline what professionalism is. Okay, I'm gonna be showing up on camera, and I need to look my best and like, okay, I know what that means. And so it's like this healing period in terms of sticking to our word and people being able to see that, of like, oh, you're not just pulling the wool over my eyes. You're not just promising me the world.",[14,2200,2201],{},"Kerry Guard [00:17:44]:",[14,2203,2204],{},"And then I'm gonna show up on day one and you're gonna dump everything onto my plate and expect me to figure it out. Right? I come from a generation. I just had a wonderful conversation with one of my employees about this, how we are the generation of figure it outers. Because we had to, right? Because we were those people who showed up and were promised the world and then dropped, you know, a $10 million account on our laps and told us to figure it out. And I just don't want people to have to live that way. We don't have to figure. We want people who are problem solvers, and we want people who want to figure it out because it's a problem and it's a puzzle, and, like, ugh. But we don't even have to figure out, like, the expectations and the intentions and, like, am I doing the right thing? Is this where I'm supposed to be? Like, what's supposed to be happening? Like, no.",[14,2206,2207],{},"Kerry Guard [00:18:33]:",[14,2209,2210],{},"Like, that's defined, and that's all right here, and you're cool, and you have to prove that it takes a minute. And so it's like, it's the PTSD cleansing, so to speak, of, like, all the other places you've come from. And then you show up here, and we're people of our word, and we're really buttoned up, and we have templates for everything, and we use asana and product management, but we're not micromanaging. And it's like this beautiful balance, and is this too good to be true? But, yeah, people do. They show up, they face their demons, and then they settle in.",[14,2212,2213],{},"Staci Gray [00:19:06]:",[14,2215,2216],{},"It's great. Yeah. Because their nervous system calms down. They feel like they're safe to be in an environment that they can actually work, do their best work. It's going to be recognized and rewarded.",[14,2218,2219],{},"Kerry Guard [00:19:19]:",[14,2221,2222],{},"Mm hmm. They do. And I would say the other piece to that that's really important in building a culture around being people. First is the feedback loop. So not sleeping things under the carpet or pretending they didn't happen, not being able to have crucial conversations because it's hard and it's icky. It makes everybody fidget. But building into your culture of, like, well, this is just what we do. So every day as the CEO, I show up every 90 days with my team.",[14,2224,2225],{},"Kerry Guard [00:19:50]:",[14,2227,2228],{},"I meet with each person individually, and I hear about one thing they're super passionate and proud of that they did in the last 90 days and something that maybe didn't go quite as well or got in their way, or if they could have a magic wand and me as CEO could fix it, what would that be? Then my third question is always, do you have feedback from me? Do you have questions for me? How can I help? Right. So, in showing up as a leader of, like, I'm not afraid to hear what you got from me or to hear what's hard for you, or to hear that this thing, this perception I created or this promise you feel like I made, that I didn't pan out. Like, no, I can't fix what I don't know. So let's have it right? And then we're able to do that on a flip side. Right. So every month they meet with their manager, our people and communities leader, and she gives them feedback. Hey, here's what I heard from the team of what's going on. Here's the stuff that's going really well.",[14,2230,2231],{},"Kerry Guard [00:20:51]:",[14,2233,2234],{},"And by the way, here are some things that have caused some friction that we need to work through. So let's put together a plan and let's talk about how we're going to do that. Right. So you have to be able to create a culture where feedback doesn't feel like you're in trouble. And that also takes time to create that trust of, I'm getting feedback. That means I'm gonna get fired. No, not necessarily. Now, if you create the same mistake over and over again, I'm still having this conversation.",[14,2236,2237],{},"Kerry Guard [00:21:21]:",[14,2239,2240],{},"Three months later, that's a different conversation. But if this is the first time giving it to you, and we're gonna talk about a plan and make it better, then no one's getting fired, no one's in trouble. Right. And so I think that's really important to helping people feel that psychological safety of building into the culture this thing that just always happens.",[14,2242,2243],{},"Staci Gray [00:21:43]:",[14,2245,1985],{},[14,2247,2248],{},"Kerry Guard [00:21:43]:",[14,2250,2251],{},"We give each other feedback. It's just what we do.",[14,2253,2254],{},"Staci Gray [00:21:46]:",[14,2256,2257],{},"Yeah. Have you ever had an experience with yourself or your team where feedback, maybe how it was presented or how it was received was a little clunky and it created more tension and friction and how do you guys navigate that always? Yeah.",[14,2259,2260],{},"Kerry Guard [00:22:07]:",[14,2262,2263],{},"It's so hard to give feedback. It's so hard. And I've plenty of stories where I've done it really, really poorly. I don't have great examples or mentors where I was given feedback really well. And so you take what you know based off of what happened for you. Right. And so it's an iterative process to figure out how to do it better. I'm still working on it, but at the end of the day, it is about creating that psychological safety of first understanding where somebody is.",[14,2265,2266],{},"Kerry Guard [00:22:37]:",[14,2268,2269],{},"Right. So before I give this feedback to you, I need to understand where you're at that even caused this thing to happen. So I asked some questions like, how's it going, how are you? How'd this meeting go? That meeting was really hard. What was really hard about it? The client just came at me like 1000 miles an hour with all of these questions and I didn't feel like I have the answers. Oh, yeah, that sounds really hard to not have the answers skills. Really hard. How do you feel like you handled it? I had to do so good. Yeah, I could see that.",[14,2271,2272],{},"Kerry Guard [00:23:08]:",[14,2274,2275],{},"You know what? I watched the video and I have to agree with you. That feel, that felt really hard. That felt really hard to watch. That felt like you had a really tough time. And I'd like to figure out how we can make you feel more prepared for when that happens, because that's gonna happen again. That's just gonna happen again. So how do we prepare you for helping that not feel like you're caught off guard? Right. And so when you approach the conversation with first creating that psychological safety through validation and mirroring, then you can give the feedback in a way that they've already acknowledged that it happened.",[14,2277,2278],{},"Kerry Guard [00:23:44]:",[14,2280,2281],{},"Right. They've tripped over their own truth. Didn't go so well. Or maybe they think it went splendidly. Oh, yeah. That meeting was awesome. I nailed it. Right.",[14,2283,2284],{},"Kerry Guard [00:23:54]:",[14,2286,2287],{},"It's like I rewatched that meeting and I rewatched that meeting because I got feedback from the team that they didn't feel like it went so well. And so here's how we saw that going. Right. So there's a way to approach it from either side, whether they feel like it went really well or it didn't, but it leaves gives you a way to have them paint the picture first versus you just dumping on them.",[14,2289,2290],{},"Staci Gray [00:24:19]:",[14,2292,1985],{},[14,2294,2295],{},"Kerry Guard [00:24:19]:",[14,2297,2298],{},"Right. Showing up and being like, I have tough feedback to give you and this is how this went. That give yourself an hour. If you got to deliver tough feedback.",[14,2300,2301],{},"Staci Gray [00:24:31]:",[14,2303,2304],{},"That's such a good point.",[14,2306,2307],{},"Kerry Guard [00:24:32]:",[14,2309,2310],{},"Give yourself an hour.",[14,2312,2313],{},"Staci Gray [00:24:33]:",[14,2315,2316],{},"I was going to ask you, because that when you're over capacity as a leader or any of your leaders on your team are over capacity, I find one of the things that suffers is the patience to have the long enough meetings to handle them well. So when you guys are stressed, or maybe you do it preventatively, but like when, when the pressure's on, like the pipeline's full, it's coming, you got a full book of business, you got the whole team going, you're working on improving processes, you're maybe even hiring. And then you have like some, some infrastructure struggles or a client meeting doesn't go well. How do you maybe as a leader or even within your company calm everybody down to get back to a place of psychological safety and then have the emotional capacity or even the logistical capacity to show up in that way.",[14,2318,2319],{},"Kerry Guard [00:25:30]:",[14,2321,2322],{},"Well, again, it's not something that you do in one swoop, and then it's done.",[14,2324,2325],{},"Staci Gray [00:25:36]:",[14,2327,2162],{},[14,2329,2330],{},"Kerry Guard [00:25:37]:",[14,2332,2333],{},"Right. It's an interval of process where you show up every day to create that. So a great example is during COVID right? Talk about stress and feeling stretched thin and our clients asking for the moon and our team having kids underfoot for the first time and dogs running around and, you know, the world basically feeling like it's on fire at the same time. And so I showed up every day. I did a daily video, and I said, you already know this, but I'm just going to recap. Here's what's happening in the world. Here's the COVID numbers. Remember, here's how we manage this on a day to day process at MKG, right? So we know you have kids at home.",[14,2335,2336],{},"Kerry Guard [00:26:22]:",[14,2338,2339],{},"We know you're doing your best, and we just need to know what's going on. So you need to tell. You need to raise your hand and let us know how to help you, because we can't see you. We don't know what your personal situation is. So it's constantly reminding them that, like, we are here and giving examples ourselves of, like, how we've actually. This just happened. It's a great example. So this just happened to me.",[14,2341,2342],{},"Kerry Guard [00:26:48]:",[14,2344,2345],{},"I really missed marketing. I missed being a marketer. And so I got back into the marketing seat and I took on my own clients, and I became billable, which also helped our bottom line. And so I knew the team needed it. I was like, okay, we can't hire, but our margins are stretched in where are we going to get more billable? So I took on a few clients, and I'm about to take on a third, and I raised my hand and said, what I've been doing for these last two clients isn't sustainable. I'm just holding it together, and I can do so much better if I just had a little help. I said, here's what I'm thinking about, and here's what I need. And I didn't even problem solve it.",[14,2347,2348],{},"Kerry Guard [00:27:33]:",[14,2350,2351],{},"I just said, here's what I like. Here's where I'm at in terms of the problem I'm having, and here's what I think I need. And then I let the team come to me and say, okay, we think you need a project manager. We think Avery would be really great. I think you two would work really well together. And then you get this accountability person every day. That's like working with you on your schedule. This sounds amazing.",[14,2353,2354],{},"Kerry Guard [00:27:53]:",[14,2356,2357],{},"And so today, every Monday, I send out a team newsletter that is a reminder of what our rocks are, any hot new deals we have in the pipe, any team updates, and then important dates. Right. The CEO weekly one pager. It's from one of the scale up books that we've all read. And when I send the newsletter, I told the story about how part of our values of the MKG standard is that no person's an island, not even me. And it comes from a place of where I was. I held a $10 million account when I was an assistant media planner, reporting to a VP with nobody in between, nobody checking my work, and the stress and anxiety that caused. And so, as part of our values that went in there, no person is an island.",[14,2359,2360],{},"Kerry Guard [00:28:43]:",[14,2362,2363],{},"And recently, I found myself to be an island. And, of course, correct. And I told this story. And then today in our. In a meeting with the team, somebody raised their hand and said, I don't normally talk about myself. It's kind of super hard. But I'm structurally thin, and I'm really nervous about anything that's going on. So I'm going to be calling on people for some backup.",[14,2365,2366],{},"Staci Gray [00:29:05]:",[14,2368,2369],{},"Yes.",[14,2371,2372],{},"Kerry Guard [00:29:06]:",[14,2374,2375],{},"Right? Like, okay. Yes. I'm so glad that I gave you the voice to feel like you could do that. Maybe she, you know, they would have done that regardless of whether I said anything. But there was sort of these correlation elements that happened, and then they were able to raise their hand and say, actually. And so I think that's really important when you're structurally thin and to give yourself space to say, hey, I need some help up here, and to lead as a leader. And I'm not sure I answered your question, but it just felt like, you know, when you're stretched really thin, the best thing you do is ask for help.",[14,2377,2378],{},"Staci Gray [00:29:41]:",[14,2380,2381],{},"Yes. And I think also, I love. I love that value of not being an island, especially being a remote team. You're already isolated and you're working from home, and maybe you go to a coffee shop or maybe you go to sit someplace at the library, but you're still alone. And when you do, are working on things. I know my team. They love just the thought partnership. Even if it's nothing tactical help.",[14,2383,2384],{},"Staci Gray [00:30:09]:",[14,2386,2387],{},"Like, it's. It's the thought partnership, the emotional support. And if we can do that inside of our companies and teach people how to ask for help, because it's not happening, people feel like they have to be alone and do things on their own and just gird theirselves up and be strong. Figure it outers. But it creates anxiety and it creates stress. And so I'm curious also, if all this work that you've been doing inside of your organization and the team culture, if any of it has impacted not just your family life, because I'm sure it's changed you as who you are at home, but your team, like, how they show up for their spouses or their kids at home, you know, I.",[14,2389,2390],{},"Kerry Guard [00:30:59]:",[14,2392,2393],{},"Don'T know the full extent of that, and I can't speak for them. What I can speak to is the fact that they know that it's okay to raise their hand when this happened. I have multiple people who have kids who are at that driving age, right? And they're like, my kid was just in the car accident, I gotta go. And all it is is heart emojis everywhere, right? All we can give them in that moment is 100%. Like, I had one person be like, I gotta go put on outside clothes and, like, go attend to my daughter. Like, absolutely. We got this, right? When they want to take a day off to go celebrate their kid's birthday, right? We have a policy of PTO, where it's a certain amount of days a year, use it or lose it by design, once you take PTO, we want you to go spend that birthday with your child. Yes.",[14,2395,2396],{},"Kerry Guard [00:31:57]:",[14,2398,2399],{},"Go have that slip and slide party. Yes. Right? Like, even though it's on a summer weekday. Go do that, please. That sounds awesome. The fact that they share pictures and we have a random channel, and people will post pictures of their vacation while they'll be on vacation away from work, but then they'll post pictures in the work channel about the great time they're having. Right? Like, so I don't know exactly how this is impacting their families. I don't have that information, but I have this anecdotal data that I have people who've been with us for anywhere from three to eight years.",[14,2401,2402],{},"Kerry Guard [00:32:35]:",[14,2404,2405],{},"Right. When you have that stickiness of an organization, you have to believe it's because of the values and the culture you create that, you know, people will slog through the toughest moments with you because they know when we come out the other side, you know, we'll take care of them through the slog as best we can, and we come out the other side. Yeah, it's. It's a wonderful place to be because they experienced it before the slack, and we'll get through the slog together, and we'll come out stronger for it. Right.",[14,2407,2408],{},"Staci Gray [00:33:10]:",[14,2410,2411],{},"I feel like that those seasons of hard forge teams, though, good teams, it's where you know who your ride or dies are, you know, who's in it with you, who's committed to growth, like, versus sitting out when it gets hard versus leaning in. It sounds like you guys have created such a beautiful culture. I curious for you, what do you think has been your own personal biggest growth?",[14,2413,2414],{},"Kerry Guard [00:33:40]:",[14,2416,2417],{},"So in 2019, I would say was probably one of my toughest years as mom and entrepreneur. I didn't have a good balance of either. I still don't, but I create the perception that it's going better. But I didn't have any patience with my family specifically, and so I had a momentous where, you know, rock bottom for whatever. Everybody has their different rock bottom. For me, it was. It was a Halloween night, and I yelled at my family pretty hard, and I was like, yeah, I'd like to stop doing that. Really like to stop yelling at people.",[14,2419,2420],{},"Kerry Guard [00:34:22]:",[14,2422,2423],{},"That would be good. And I started therapy, and I specifically wanted cognitive behavioral therapy. I didn't want drugs. I didn't want somebody to just numb namit. And I'm not saying that's what it is for people. That's just what it felt like for me. There's a million reasons why these drugs exist and the brilliance that they bring to the table for people who need it. And I don't want to dismiss that.",[14,2425,2426],{},"Kerry Guard [00:34:49]:",[14,2428,2429],{},"It just wasn't right for me in my own anxiety. And so I sought out somebody who could basically rewire my brain. That's what cognitive behavior is. It's basically rewiring your brain. And there's a couple things that come with that, and one is letting your brain know you're not in actual danger. The world is not on fire. I am not in trouble. I don't need to run away.",[14,2431,2432],{},"Kerry Guard [00:35:18]:",[14,2434,2435],{},"I just need to breathe. Now to your nervous system. It's gonna be okay. Just ride the wave for the next 90 seconds, and it'll pass. Right. And the other thing that was really key to that, that then I worked on for many years with multiple, two different therapists having moved. And then my coach. I have a business coach.",[14,2437,2438],{},"Kerry Guard [00:35:41]:",[14,2440,2441],{},"And what it came down to was all about what I can control, right? What I can and can't control, and what I can't control, as much as I would love to, is other people. As much as I would tell people how to do and behave and be even my own eight year old daughter, that is just not how people work. And so it's all about how I behave in relation to that. Right? And that's all I can control, is me. And so as I worked on rewiring my brain to control that side of, like, okay, I'm frustrated and I'm mad at this person right now. What could I have done differently that may have produced a different outcome? Right. And that's really the path that's gotten us, I think, to where we are today. To say, like, okay, what could I have done differently? And mistakes happen, and we're all human.",[14,2443,2444],{},"Kerry Guard [00:36:42]:",[14,2446,2447],{},"And it's not about dwelling on the mistake, it's just recognizing it happened. And now what are we going to do about it to make it better?",[14,2449,2450],{},"Staci Gray [00:36:50]:",[14,2452,2453],{},"Thank you for being so vulnerable. And I can relate to all of it. I think my life lesson is patience. I think this is what I'm supposed to learn in this loop around. I also can totally relate to trying to control outcomes. I've witnessed this, too, in a lot of entrepreneurs. And there's other leaders that talk about it, about how building and scaling a business puts you face to face with your trauma. And there's another guy who has this quote that says, you spend the first 50 years of your life recovering from the first five from Brian Tracy.",[14,2455,2456],{},"Staci Gray [00:37:30]:",[14,2458,2459],{},"And it really. I think building a business just accelerates the character growth. It just accelerates the growth journey. And so you hit these moments where the pressure is on so much, and it's hard to manage your human when the pressure is just, like, suffocating. And it's easy to yell or blame or take it out on other people, but to really sit with ourselves and say, what am I really in control of? What I'm not? And how can I either manage my nervous system better so that if I am in these high conflict situations, I can diffuse it instead of pour gasoline on it? And also just the grace. Like, to go through life just wrapping yourself in a bubble of grace, knowing that you're gonna make mistakes and you're not gonna be perfect, and you're gonna have that moment where the pressure is on, and you might say that thing that you didn't mean. And we can give and receive that grace, then we can really grow. Which is full circle testament to what you created inside of your organization with that psychological safety, where people can bring their cringy moments, their mistakes, their, I wish I didn't do it this way.",[14,2461,2462],{},"Staci Gray [00:38:51]:",[14,2464,2465],{},"And it to be held in a container of let's all learn and grow versus you did something wrong, or you're bad, or I did something wrong, and I'm bad, because neither of those are true. It's just. It's just an opportunity to evolve, and you're doing it so beautifully.",[14,2467,2468],{},"Kerry Guard [00:39:10]:",[14,2470,2471],{},"Yeah. You know, it's definitely not easy. I would say. Don't go at it alone. I got a mentor in about 2017, which was awesome. He taught me the importance of what he called MRI. Most respectable interpretation of, like, is this really about you or how is it really about them? And how can you separate yourself from taking this so personally? And so that was really the start of the journey for me. And I think it's really important that you find your.",[14,2473,2474],{},"Kerry Guard [00:39:43]:",[14,2476,2477],{},"Scott Galloway, who is an entrepreneur himself, hosts many podcasts, and one of the things he talks about is having your cabinet. So who are the people you can go to that will give you honesty and give you true advice in the face of whatever it is you're facing? And who are those people? And it's not always. It's gonna be really hard to hear from people. It's not always your partner. And what I mean by partners, I mean your husband or your wife or your significant other. It's not. It's not. Do not make it them, because you muddy the waters and you put so much pressure on them to have the answers to your problems that they don't have full context to.",[14,2479,2480],{},"Kerry Guard [00:40:26]:",[14,2482,2483],{},"And while they own a part of your business and live and help you grow it from just being in a relationship together, it is not their responsibility to solve your business problems. Go find other people who have built businesses. Coaches, mentors, whether it's, you know, I joined yec for a moment. My business partner joined EO. We both have a coach that we work together with. I've mentioned mentors. Right? So go create a cabinet of people you can go to to say, this is what we're up against. What have you gone through? Is this.",[14,2485,2486],{},"Kerry Guard [00:41:06]:",[14,2488,2489],{},"Chances are I went to school for photography, and while this drove me nuts that my professors would say this, they're like, you're not reinventing the wheel. That photograph you're making isn't anything particularly new. It just has your. Your vision on it. And so go look at the greats to figure out, like, what they did, right. And then just recreate it with your viewpoint. And that's really what we're doing as businesses. Right.",[14,2491,2492],{},"Kerry Guard [00:41:30]:",[14,2494,2495],{},"Like, so many businesses have been built before us, and so we're thinking we're doing something new and exciting. Gents are. We're not. Go find your cabinet.",[14,2497,2498],{},"Staci Gray [00:41:39]:",[14,2500,2501],{},"So say what MRI is again, because I thought that that was very good.",[14,2503,2504],{},"Kerry Guard [00:41:45]:",[14,2506,2507],{},"Most respectable interpretation. So somebody's coming at you with a lot of shame and blame. It's not about you. It's their shame and blame. And so how do you create the psychological safety to unpack that for them, to help them understand that this. This isn't really about me, and you're part of the problem for sure. Don't just think you don't have any ownership in the situation. You do.",[14,2509,2510],{},"Kerry Guard [00:42:10]:",[14,2512,2513],{},"But understanding the core, at the root of. Of what it is they're feeling right now. And if something goes wrong and they don't own that and they put the blame immediately on you, it's not being frustrated and angry about that, but it's understanding why they can't take their own ownership and figuring out the root cause of, like, what actually happened and then how you both can come to terms with it. But you can't do that if you're in fight or flight, if little brain isn't. Is activated and somebody's coming at you like, you can't, so you can't help them unpack it, and you can't unpack it for yourself. So MRI was a nice trigger for me to be like, wait, this isn't. What is the most respectful interpretation about this? It's okay to take a minute. It's okay to be like, I hear you, and that sounds really hard.",[14,2515,2516],{},"Kerry Guard [00:43:00]:",[14,2518,2519],{},"And I appreciate why you're frustrated with me right now. We're gonna go to our opposite corners, and we're gonna come back when we're both cooled off and have a honest conversation about what's going on. Right. So I think that's okay, too. But having these, like, moments. MRI is a great trigger. Why is this happening? Just asking why a bunch of times. Why? Why? Why? Right? And unspiraling yourself is really good.",[14,2521,2522],{},"Kerry Guard [00:43:24]:",[14,2524,2525],{},"I watched a video about somebody saying, go have a banana. Like, say, hey, listen, this seems really amped, and, like, we just need a minute. Like, go have some. Let's both take a minute. Let's go have some food. Sometimes hangry is a thing, right. And come back to the table when we're both in better places. You know, that's.",[14,2527,2528],{},"Kerry Guard [00:43:42]:",[14,2530,2531],{},"That's okay. That's good. That's healthy. Yelling at each other, trying to problem solve when you're not in a healthy place, not a good idea. MRI, misrespectful interpretation situation.",[14,2533,2534],{},"Staci Gray [00:43:55]:",[14,2536,2537],{},"I love that. And the cabinet thing is so great. I have a list of these people in my life that I. And it goes in a couple ways. One is it goes in the way where they have permission to tell me hard truths. And I know they're going to tell me hard truths, but they're also the ones that have a right to have an opinion in my life. So if somebody posts something on the Internet or does something like I. They're the ones that get to validate or reject it versus.",[14,2539,2540],{},"Staci Gray [00:44:26]:",[14,2542,2543],{},"And I do, too, but versus it being. Everyone has this free right to speak in. Into my life hard or kind things because you can, you know, believe your own press sometimes. So both things. Both things are true. You know, you need someone to tell you the hard truths, but also tell you when you do get beat up, like you're actually a good person. These are great things about you. So that's such good little tidbits.",[14,2545,2546],{},"Kerry Guard [00:44:57]:",[14,2548,2549],{},"Yes. Yeah. You do need that person in your corner who knows how to build you up as much as they know how to let you know what's really going on. It helps you believe both sides, right? Because if they can't tell you, if they only build you up and they're not willing to have to tell you what's actually going on, then it's really hard to ever believe the good stuff, too. So, yes. Yes. You need both sides for sure.",[14,2551,2552],{},"Staci Gray [00:45:22]:",[14,2554,2555],{},"Yeah. One of my favorite lines that they'll say to me is like, okay, I'm gonna play devil's advocate. Advocate. And I'm like, great. That's what I want you to play here because that gives you a real conversation. Wow, this has been so delightful. And you have just shared so much wisdom on building teams that have psychological safety, becoming a leader that can create an environment like that. What are projects that you guys are excited about that are coming up?",[14,2557,2558],{},"Kerry Guard [00:45:55]:",[14,2560,2561],{},"So we have three rocks this year, and I love them all. One is, we created an agency leadership committee. I didn't want a COo or I had a managing director. And she was wonderful. Absolutely loved her. Loved having her. The challenge was that when she left, I didn't really understand all the ins and outs of everything that was happening, because it was one person, and it was her whole responsibility to know all of these things. And while she did an amazing job breaking it down and trying to delegate before she left, I still felt like I don't know what's going on.",[14,2563,2564],{},"Kerry Guard [00:46:40]:",[14,2566,2567],{},"And so I had to basically have the whole team report to me for the last two years while I got the lay of the land and, like, figured it out. And so what I realized is that I need multiple checkpoints, and it can't just be one person. It's just too big. It's just too big. And really, what ended up taking up most of her time was managing the team when they had a tough day or they needed something or they needed a vet. Right? Like, she was the person they went to, and everybody needs that, but she couldn't get anything else done. And so by spreading the load across an agency leadership committee, I have one person who's dedicated to that. I have another person who ultimately makes, like, if push came to shove and a decision needed to be made and nobody could figure out which way to move forward, she's it.",[14,2569,2570],{},"Kerry Guard [00:47:30]:",[14,2572,2573],{},"She gets to say, okay, here's how be. So if everything I've heard you say, this is where we're going to start, and then we'll iterate and we'll figure it out, but, like, we gotta start somewhere. So she's that person, and then she also runs it. She's like, well, the committee all reports to me at the end. She runs the committee. And then our third person, as the strategist, is responsible for client relationships and making sure those are going well, as well as our second project that I'm really excited about, which is called the coordinator program. I don't believe a company can really grow sustainably in a longevity term without having a way for people to come in and grow. And so if you're only ever hiring people with expertise and, like, ten plus years of experience, then you're going to run into a wall.",[14,2575,2576],{},"Kerry Guard [00:48:24]:",[14,2578,2579],{},"At least we did. We ran into a wall where it became really hard to hire and find these quote unquote unicorns. Right? And so we have to cultivate them. And so we have had two people go through the program, and now we're figuring out how to scale it. We have a third person right now who's, like, starting on that journey, and Nathan's leading the charge on bringing her up through the program based off of a framework that a previous employee built. And so that's my other sort of baby that I've held near and dear to my heart for a long time. I've been saying it for years of, we can't just rely. I know you want people to come in here and immediately take client work and immediately be client facing, and how are we building the next generation of marketers? Because they've been left behind, and we're part of that problem.",[14,2581,2582],{},"Staci Gray [00:49:09]:",[14,2584,2585],{},"I love both of those. And they go very well with being people first, they're both leadership and development, which is just right up the alley of your culture there. I love it. Where can people find you if they're interested in connecting?",[14,2587,2588],{},"Kerry Guard [00:49:26]:",[14,2590,2591],{},"Oh, LinkedIn yeah, I live on LinkedIn. You can also go to MkG marketing. That is a URL. And you'll get to our website. You can find me there, too. But yeah, just connect me on LinkedIn. Love to have you.",[14,2593,2594],{},"Staci Gray [00:49:41]:",[14,2596,2597],{},"We'll put that in the show notes. But this conversation has been so wonderful, and I can see the transformation and growth even in just how you talk, because the ownership of the things that you've evolved from and what you've created inside of your company is so beautiful. And I think a lot of companies could benefit from hearing you talk about just the specific things that you do to make people feel safe, to make people feel like they're developing. And so everyone listening, go follow her and maybe get some marketing tips, too. She has a podcast as well, which we will link in the show notes. And just remember, when you're building and scaling your business, stay rooted in your values while you get shit done, because that will be the path to sustainable growth. Cheers, y'all.",[1757,2599],{},{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":2601},[2602,2603,2604],{"id":1478,"depth":297,"text":1479},{"id":1907,"depth":297,"text":1908},{"id":1493,"depth":291,"text":1494,"children":2605},[2606],{"id":1508,"depth":297,"text":1509},"2024-07-24T19:51:26Z","Kerry Guard joins Staci Gray on \"The Rooted Founder Show\" to discuss managing a work-life harmony between motherhood and entrepreneurship in her remote work.","\u002Fimages\u002Frooted-founder-show.webp","Staci Gray's The Rooted Founder Podcast",{"_schema":1772},"\u002Fblog\u002Fleadership\u002Fhow-to-handle-stress-and-pressure-as-a-marketing-ceo-and-parent",{"title":1892,"description":2608},"blog\u002Fleadership\u002Fhow-to-handle-stress-and-pressure-as-a-marketing-ceo-and-parent","MQxBKrVUy2Jh-xqTm4MXjzLGLpTtZs8_qBNAlT8x9pM",[1778,1831],{"id":2618,"title":2619,"author":7,"authors":2620,"body":2621,"caption":7,"category":1766,"date":2660,"description":2661,"extension":318,"img":2662,"imgAlt":77,"meta":2663,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":2664,"seo":2665,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":2666,"updated":7,"__hash__":2667,"people":2668},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fleadership\u002Fa-deep-dive-into-the-b2b-marketing-landscape-w-kerry-guard.md","A Deep Dive Into the B2B Marketing Landscape w\u002F Kerry Guard",[9],{"type":11,"value":2622,"toc":2657},[2623,2629,2632,2638,2641,2644,2650],[24,2624,2626],{"id":2625},"key-takeaways-from-the-cold-calling-podcast-with-kerry-guard",[52,2627,2628],{},"Key Takeaways from The Cold Calling Podcast with Kerry Guard",[14,2630,2631],{},"Our CEO Kerry Guard joined Larry Long Jr, on the latest episode of 'The Cold Calling Podcast', to dive deep into the evolving landscape of B2B marketing. In a thought-provoking discussion, they deconstructed the traditional approach to sales and marketing, advocating for a paradigm shift towards relationship-building and value provision.",[14,2633,2634,2637],{},[52,2635,2636],{},"One of the key insights"," emphasized is the distinction between sales and marketing. Sales focus on guiding customers through their purchase decisions, whereas marketing is about constructing a pathway between the brand and the customer. However, the art of cold outreach isn't obsolete, but it requires a strategic and well-executed plan to forge meaningful connections and deals.",[14,2639,2640],{},"Particularly for CMOs of cybersecurity agencies, there's a spotlight on intentional sales strategies. Guard points out that with a finite audience, it's crucial to pivot from cold outreach, which is losing effectiveness, to methods that revolve around active listening and understanding buyer needs. This human-centered approach not only resonates more with clients but also contributes to a more robust, trust-based relationship.",[14,2642,2643],{},"In the rapidly evolving digital age, the utilization of AI and data analysis stands out as a significant advantage. Speaker A draws parallels between revolutionary tech like iPhones and AI's potential to reshape our work, not as a replacement but as an enhancement of our capabilities. This is particularly relevant in content creation and SEO strategies.",[14,2645,2646,2649],{},[52,2647,2648],{},"As actionable tips,"," the podcast experts recommend that business owners looking to elevate their B2B tech brand should remain true to their core mission and actively spread their message through events, networking, and community engagement. The emphasis is on leveraging personal strengths and creating genuine interactions as a powerful catalyst for business growth.",[14,2651,2652,2653],{},"Lastly, the episode is a reminder that the journey to exceptional marketing is continuous. Embrace the data, engage with technology, and above all, prioritize human connection. Stay tuned for the next episode for more invaluable insights.",[52,2654,2655],{},[1757,2656],{},{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":2658},[2659],{"id":2625,"depth":291,"text":2628},"2024-04-11T15:16:04Z","During a discussion on \"The Cold Calling Podcast\", Kerry Guard emphasizes relationship building during sales and marketing in the B2B cybersecurity 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That Converts",{"type":11,"value":3253,"toc":3638},[3254,3257,3261,3264,3267,3270,3274,3279,3285,3290,3296,3299,3304,3310,3315,3321,3324,3329,3334,3339,3344,3349,3354,3359,3364,3369,3372,3377,3380,3385,3390,3395,3400,3405,3410,3415,3420,3425,3430,3435,3440,3445,3450,3455,3460,3465,3470,3475,3480,3485,3490,3495,3500,3505,3510,3515,3520,3525,3530,3535,3540,3545,3550,3555,3560,3565,3570,3575,3580,3585,3590,3595,3600,3605,3610,3613,3616,3620,3623,3626,3629,3632,3635],[24,3255,3256],{"id":1508},"Transcript",[81,3258,3260],{"id":3259},"opening","Opening",[14,3262,3263],{},"Hello. I'm Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing and welcome to this Live Round Table where we're going to discuss how having a culture that supports and takes care of your team can lead to hitting your lofty goals. Between quiet quitting, layoffs, burnout, and mental health, employees are being very clear of what they will and will not work for. So how do we meet their needs while holding them accountable?",[14,3265,3266],{},"Before I launch into introductions and questions, some quick housekeeping. This is our promise to you as our listeners, and what we hope in return:\nWe promise to keep to the discussion at hand. It’s why you’re here and what we’ll honor. This isn’t about our companies or selling. This is an honest, authentic conversation with real experts who are living and breathing this challenge  and how we can learn from them in applying it to our own brands.\nFor those listening, please engage in the comments. We have AnDrae’ Jones hanging without y’all. He’ll be there to field your comments over to me for our guests to answer at the end, as well as hang out with you. He’s great. Thanks, for joining us, AnDrae’!",[14,3268,3269],{},"Let's kick off with introductions!",[81,3271,3273],{"id":3272},"conversation","Conversation",[14,3275,3276,3278],{},[52,3277,9],{},": Can each of you introduce yourselves? Your name and your title, and share what company culture means to you. I'll kick off with Peter.",[14,3280,3281,3284],{},[52,3282,3283],{},"Peter Zaballos",": Thank you, Kerry. It’s super fun to be here today, and it's a topic that is personally important to me. I am a fractional CMO at a company called Authentic Brand. I spent my career in high-growth technology startups in marketing, leading marketing organizations. I was also a venture capitalist for seven years, as well. And when I think of what is called company culture, it means creating a safe place for people to do their best work, take risks, and learn from failure, but it's creating that safe place for people to perform.",[14,3286,3287,3289],{},[52,3288,9],{},": Patrick next.",[14,3291,3292,3295],{},[52,3293,3294],{},"Patrick Garrity",":  It's Patrick Garrity and VP of Marketing at Nucleus Security. I've been here about six months, and have worked with cybersecurity companies over the last decade, Duo Security, Censys, Blumira, and now Nucleus.",[14,3297,3298],{},"Creating a good culture is prioritizing people, helping them be in a position where they can do their best, and also giving them the ability to enjoy the things they love to do outside of work as well. So helping them find their balance and helping them perform what they're here to do.",[14,3300,3301,3303],{},[52,3302,9],{},": I love it! Aileen.",[14,3305,3306,3309],{},[52,3307,3308],{},"Aileen Casmano",": Thanks, Kerry. I'm Aileen. I am the director of demand generation at VISOTrust. I'm on week four. So very new. But I've been in the cybersecurity industry for about six years, which is crazy. And what company culture means to me is an environment where I feel supported. At work, we try to keep fit. The family dynamic out of calling it that, but a place where I can show up and be myself and feel supported. I've been lucky to work for companies that have honored that, so that's very important to me, and any company that enables your professional and personal growth. That's important because we're constantly changing as humans, so we need that support.",[14,3311,3312,3314],{},[52,3313,9],{},": Janice.",[14,3316,3317,3320],{},[52,3318,3319],{},"Janice Dru-Bennett",":  I'm Janice Dru-Bennett. I focus on strategic partnership marketing at mQuilibrium,  a tech company that delivers digital resilience solutions. And I also wear the hat as an entrepreneur, social impact advocate, and mom.",[14,3322,3323],{},"Company culture means living your values as a company and aligning your organizational purpose with your people's purposes. Having that alignment and showcasing that you are living your values is really important to company culture.",[14,3325,3326,3328],{},[52,3327,9],{},": Thank you all so much. I am so grateful to have you all here. Let's kick off into our questions. My first one for you all is,  why is having a company culture, especially one that centers around all the lovely things you all mentioned, why is that all matter? Why is having a comparable company culture matter? Janice, go for it.",[14,3330,3331,3333],{},[52,3332,3319],{},":  Company culture is essential to performance, and people are critical to business results. So understanding what your people are struggling with and being able to support them from mental health and well-being perspectives are critical to achieving business results. And I can pass it on to Patrick or Peter.",[14,3335,3336,3338],{},[52,3337,3283],{},": Thanks. Every company has a culture; whether you like it or not, it has one. The obligation we have as leaders is to make that culture intentional because it will follow gravity if left unattended. And in every culture and every company, there are people who are introverts or extroverts. There are highly ambitious people and people that are happy doing what they're doing. It takes intentionality to give all of those people a place where they can do their best work and where the group can perform well. If you don't do that, you're going to end up with a culture that will attract and reject people. Those people might be some of the best people you want. They may not want to be there anymore if they don't feel like they're in a culture reinforcing what they believe in and giving them the opportunity to do really good work. Let's be here to create an intentional culture that people want to be a part of and bring the best out of them.",[14,3340,3341,3343],{},[52,3342,3294],{},": It's really important. We spend so much of our time working in. As an individual, I enjoy coming to work every day doing something that I enjoy doing, and that's true of everyone. Peters is talking of having a purpose in what you're doing when spending 50% of your time, probably more related to work. It's really important. People can contribute, make a meaningful impact, and work together as a team, and culture essentially sets the basis, a lot of times, for what becomes of that. If you don't intentionally set some of it, it can go awry, as Peter highlighted. Pretty important to stay focused on creating a culture that's inclusive and focuses on what's important for the organization.",[14,3345,3346,3348],{},[52,3347,3308],{},": Cool, and I'll round us out. And I was going to say something similar to Patrick on work is just such a big part of every day, especially now that we all know the world is remote. Work bleeds into our personal lives even more. And what I like most about it is the community aspect of culture; like building culture, humans are literally in the hierarchy of needs, belonging, and safety. They're both to have a hierarchy of needs. And that's what culture brings a sense of belonging and a sense of safety, and just feeling part of a community bigger than, like, more than just a job. People with shared values and beliefs contribute towards the same goals.",[14,3350,3351,3353],{},[52,3352,9],{},": A couple of you mentioned values and purpose and mission being part of that purpose. Can you tell me what are values to you? And how do you think that sort of sets the tone for a culture that is intentional?",[14,3355,3356,3358],{},[52,3357,3319],{},":  Values can be anything for an organization. We value high performance, growth, and family. There could be different organizational values. You attract people who align with your values. If high performance is important to me, it may also mean that I would put in extra work and need to figure out how to balance work in life. Sometimes, if you lean too far into a value, it can cause things like burnout or other issues. So just being aware of what your values are, and there's a pro and a con, perhaps each of the values that you present is one of the things that I think about when I think about a company that will attract me and do my personal values match what the organization says their mission and values are. If you don't have a clear mission and values as an organization, then you would struggle with things like bringing in talent and retaining your talent.",[14,3360,3361,3363],{},[52,3362,3308],{},": I completely agree with Janice. I've always looked to company values at times where I'm trying to make a decision about something. Are we doing right by our customer? Are we doing right by our fellow employees? As an individual, your values are aligned with the company. It's a natural fit, and it makes it easier for you to trust your decision-making. I want to join a company that puts customers first and always does right by the customers and the employees. It could be a guiding principle, or they should be a guiding principle for decision-making across any department in any type of decision.",[14,3365,3366,3368],{},[52,3367,3294],{},": Janice mentioned burnout a little bit. One of the recent experiences, like joining a new company, it's probably been, I mentioned May was when I joined nucleus, and I went 110 miles an hour to start. And I'll tell you, probably 3-4 months and you hit that wall of burnout already. One thing is also being able to take a step back and annually analyze and say, “Okay,”, especially in marketing.",[14,3370,3371],{},"Sales is another big area where there's an indefinite amount of things to be done in any part of the organization. But there are so many different choices to make of things you could do and so many things you could do that you can, especially in high growth security startups, you can spend an indefinite amount of time on work. Spending a lot more time, taking a step back and looking at what things you're going to prioritize and what things you're going to say no to, and helping your team navigate that as well. Because otherwise, it's seemingly chaotic, and that doesn't necessarily help company culture. Setting clear priorities around what's important and not can become incredibly important to dictate culture.",[14,3373,3374,3376],{},[52,3375,3283],{},": There are three tiers of this. There's the company culture, and if you were fortunate to be the company that intentionally went down and wrote down your values, that's awesome because now you have this artifact that you can refer to, like IBM was saying. I was at Unicorn Accumulo, and one of our values was to do the right hard thing. We turned to that a lot when we had to make really tough decisions because the easy one was not going to be the right one. But the hard one came with consequences and heartache. But if you're lucky, you've got a company that's done that, and those are there. But then, to an alien point, you have to live them; as leaders, you have to model them.",[14,3378,3379],{},"And I like what Patrick was saying about he could see that he was burning out and to everybody working on his team to see him check himself. That's super important. When I left my last job, I wrote a blog post about how a company's culture can easily be tracked by how they treat their software or engineer, the role of their software engineers, and the behavior of their software engineers and salespeople. If you have salespeople that bring the order in, but they lied to do it, and there are no consequences, then the organization knows anything goes to get the order. All we care about is results.  The same thing in software engineers behave like tyrants, and that's tolerated. You've just told everybody the culture here is one where tyrants are okay as long as they get the feature shipped. I keep bringing back the term obligation. You have an obligation to the people that work for you to model the values you're trying to get them to follow. In my org, we put a lot of emphasis on continuous education. The search marketing world is changing so fast, and you have to be on top of that. Anybody who takes any courses, you take those courses out of your 40-hour or 50-hour week, you don't do them on the weekends, because they're your job. We'll pay you to take those courses effectively. But I've been in other companies where they said, “You gotta go do all that stuff.” But it's off the clock, and that just doesn't build trust.",[14,3381,3382,3384],{},[52,3383,3319],{},": Modeling your values as a leader is essential to having the culture go from the top down and bottom up. Attracting individuals earlier, having that value alignment, but as a leader, reflecting that value of caring for your people and not burning yourself out, as Patrick mentioned, and being able to take the time off for yourself and showing everyone that it's not all about just performance, that we care about your health and we care about your life as a person outside of work. It's that whole self-approach that leaders must take to keep their talent and get the performance as well.",[14,3386,3387,3389],{},[52,3388,3294],{},": I've been through this experience a few times, but it's very often that people aren't quitting the organization or quitting their leaders. And that's gonna be super mindful of it. As you're bringing in people that are going to be managers, your leaders, what makes a great leades, and then also, I have seen cultures where the people that are the longest assume leadership roles, and they're the worst people qualified sometimes to actually be in that role. If you're going to have that model, get those people lots of training so they understand how to do that. So important. I'm not saying you shouldn't promote people from within, but if you do things arbitrarily based on time, for quote-unquote experience, a lot of times it might be the wrong decision. You have to be really thoughtful of leadership as you start bringing in the first line, second line, and other types of management underneath to sustain the right culture.",[14,3391,3392,3394],{},[52,3393,3308],{},": Totally. An example, just to jump in, that I can give on that is even though open vacation isn't a value, it's part of the culture, and so many organizations are pivoting to it now. And as a manager, the feedback I got for my team previously was they were afraid they didn't know the limit of vacation with the open vacation policy and what's too much. And so I gave the feedback to the executives, CEOs, and founders: you guys need to start taking vacations so that it bleeds down to the rest of the organization. And they're like, \"Okay. If the CEO is taking a vacation, it's okay for me to take a week off here.\" And once we started doing that, they would put their vacation on the calendar, take a day off here and there, take an afternoon off, and we started to see that bleed out. Just people becoming more comfortable with not having to feel weird about taking a vacation. Just an example of a top-down approach working.",[14,3396,3397,3399],{},[52,3398,9],{},": I have a follow-up question about this because it's all really important. I want to come back to it. I want to answer Emily Graham's question: any suggestions for when your team is aligned on values and culture but other teams you work with are not?",[14,3401,3402,3404],{},[52,3403,3319],{},": This is where I mentioned going from the top down. If your team is aligned but another team is not, then something is happening at a higher level that is not matched. And yes, as a peer, you can perhaps go to the other team leader and discuss it. That's one tip that I've always found helpful. I'm hearing this from my team working with your team; can we talk about this? Or if your team is pressuring my team to get things done overnight, when do we need our work-life balance? How do we have that conversation as leaders with each other? And then also thinking about as an executive team and in your HR function, how can we talk as a whole company about giving the skills and the training for our whole organization to address some of these and having the pulse surveys and the feedback from employees so that you know which teams are maybe more aligned than others?",[14,3406,3407,3409],{},[52,3408,3294],{},":  The majority of the time, I see people misaligned. It's because they don't talk to each other. That's the reality. People have misconceptions or expectations, and you only have so much time. It's a balance. A lot of times you're weighing, especially in marketing; you're touching sales, customer success, product, and all these different functions, and then externally facing customers a ton of time. If you really want to build stronger relationships, spending time with those different teams might be like, \"Oh, hey, I have a new PMM starting in a week.\" \"I'm going to have them go live in products for 75% of their time so that we can build that relationship with marketing.\" I don't have the time. I couldn't make the time to do more of that. But it's going to be more impact if a dedicated person on my team to that relationship. Some of the ways I think about it are trying to first build, and then if for some reason, it doesn't work, after you've done all that work, maybe upleveling to a leadership level, as well, from a discussion perspective, to set the tone for the culture overall.",[14,3411,3412,3414],{},[52,3413,3308],{},": Just to follow up on that. This is a really common issue in sales and marketing, specifically, and one thing I've noticed is it always comes down to each individual team's goals and what they care about, which is what they're being measured on. One team won't want to spend time on something or won't want to do something because that's not going to help the amount of touches I get in or the number of meetings I booked this month. Communication is definitely huge, but getting down to the problem first, why aren't we aligned? Do we both have different ideas of what our goal is? Can we align on a common goal that will satisfy our team's needs and initiatives? And that's helped me navigate working, being more aligned with sales, and bringing sales in earlier. I used to just bring in sales when we were ready to launch a campaign and be like, \"Okay, this is everything.\" \"Here's what you need.\" And now I'm bringing sales in more earlier on the conversation of actually, like, campaigning, pre-launching, putting together all of the information together, and targeting and campaign needs, so that sales feels like they are a stakeholder in it and not just, \"Oh, this is just being passed off for marketing.\" So that's a way I've navigated it with sales. But overall, communication, being aligned on goals, and understanding each other's goals is important.",[14,3416,3417,3419],{},[52,3418,3283],{},": Yeah, and that's because they are not mutually exclusive goals. I get asked all the time what the single metric that marketing should measure their success with is and it's revenue. Everybody's there to hit the revenue plan, and the sales team has a different set of metrics they have to keep on top of to know that they're following up on their sales prospects, and marketing has a different set of metrics. But at the end of the day, you're all trying to generate revenue and hit the revenue plan, so this communication and sharing of the objectives is a good foundation. But looking at that question, there are scenarios where the head of marketing and the head of sales don't get along, and the CEO has the obligation. Two full-time jobs ago, I was running marketing, then the head of product left, and I took over the product organization and the engineering team. We were literally in open warfare. There were shouting matches that were happening on the floor. And the CEO sat down with me and the head of engineering and said we got to reset. He looked at the head of engineering and said, \"If we end up with shouting matches in three months, I'm going to know what the cause is,\" because that's two sets of shouting matches with a different player. It was a subtle way of saying, \"I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.\" \"But if it turns out that you were the cause of the shouting matches, I'm going to have to make a change,\" which I thought was a bold leadership move by the CEO. I've worked in organizations where marketing and sales did not get along, and the CEO was very passive. It's just an awful situation when you try to use communication skills. You try and collaborate. If you're one hand clapping, you need the guy at the top, or the woman at the top, to be able to say, \"Okay, how are we going to go solve this?\" and that's rare. A lot of them avoid it.",[14,3421,3422,3424],{},[52,3423,3294],{},":  The other thing, like, the nucleus was high growth early stage, and there's just a lot to be done. I'll pinch it and help out. How can I help write better ADR scripts from a marketing perspective? Ultimately, the more I can help the ADR team or the sales team convert, the better it's going to be for me. Sometimes, it's not even a leadership alignment thing. I'm going to do this and help out because it'll make a big impact for the sales org and marketing. Sometimes, doing that twice a week with ADR is just to help them on. How do we get a higher conversion? How do we push this stuff along and as part of this sales org? This is going to help overall. I'll just do it. Nobody else has the time or capacity, because sales are working on closing deals and processing and all that fun stuff. It's been open and transparent and open where he can to sometimes, depending on what stage you're at.",[14,3426,3427,3429],{},[52,3428,9],{},": I love that. Let's switch gears a little bit, because I love what we're talking about from a holistic standpoint and about company culture and values. Let's talk about the individual standpoint because there is a balancing act between having this company culture, but it's not necessarily and it draws in the right people. That's part of the mission of having a culture with values; it draws in the right people who are going to fit. But that doesn't mean that everybody's the same. How do you support your team on a team level but also on an individual level?",[14,3431,3432,3434],{},[52,3433,3319],{},": I can jump in and share just a little bit about the work I do with meQuilibrium, where there's an individual assessment that every person gets, so you can see what your score is from a resilience perspective. That's one aspect of measuring where you're at as an individual and being able to see your own performance, whether it's how focused I am or how much energy I have, am I positive, or am I getting enough sleep—kind of being able to measure that yourself and then also being able to map that to the values. And so individually, I'm seeing that I'm scoring highly on this, and it aligns with the values of my organization. Being able to measure is the first step, like getting your baseline, and then you can take the action and continue to really identify the areas that you need to continue to improve on. Those are the steps we take individually, at our company, and with the companies, we work with to help support individual resilience.",[14,3436,3437,3439],{},[52,3438,3308],{},": I've used SMART goals in the past, and I've seen that methodology work really well for myself and for other individuals. So SMART is an acronym for specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and time-based. Previously, I had the marketing team; we had a marketing team SMART goal, and then each individual contributor had a SMART goal that contributed to the team goal for the quarter. I also made sure to have my team have personal goals and ask them about them, check in, and just have a conversation about them to see if there's anything I can do to help or anything that the company can do, and just make the conversation easier about. It opened the door. I'm working towards this certification, and my workload is preventing me from finishing it or something. It just made them a bit more comfortable to share, and it also helped you learn about your team as individuals and what they do beyond work.",[14,3441,3442,3444],{},[52,3443,3294],{},": One thing I did recently is, and I'll give credit to Adam Dudley at Nucleus, every single week, we have meetings on the marketing side, essentially for 30 minutes, and comedians on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. We're a small team. There are only three of us; we'll have four soon, and other people are welcome to join. But at the beginning of the week, we read off to each of us what things we're going to be working on, and then we report on them at the end of the week. A few different things. If something's not on that list, it's not a priority. We're okay with saying, \"Okay, let's re-evaluate at the end of the week whether we should do this or not.\" Sometimes there are time-sensitive things that we add, but it also gives an appreciation for the week, like, \"Hey, I got this stuff done.\" And we've made progress because sometimes you can go weeks or months without really appreciating or understanding the things that have been accomplished and done. It gives a sense, especially with people like myself with high anxiety, that you need to be doing more, some things to think about as far as architecting and discussing goals in the success you're having on a consistent basis.",[14,3446,3447,3449],{},[52,3448,3283],{},": We have the last two organizations I've run, we've fully adopted agile and marketing. I had product responsibilities, so we shared the agile coach with the product and dev teams. And that was super helpful because it did give you this chance to look at your forecasting ability over time. At the beginning of this, it was just a horror show; people were missing commitments by weeks because they had never done it before. But after a year, we got good at everybody knowing what I could take on this week or in this sprint, and we rolled it up to six sprint plans. We do what we call \"release planning\" for things like that, knowing that the confidence and the specificity decline as you go out. But that helped create this—I love this term, \"resiliency.\" Because it let people try things, fail, and then realize, \"Well, what did we learn there?\" And \"How do we recover from that?\" And then, on the personal part, we would have a manager sit down with their employee once a quarter and map out a development plan for the quarter. And because we wanted to get away from an annual review, it is almost meaningless. We wanted to get more frequent feedback, so there'd be a quarterly development plan where they could say, \"I want to take these courses,\" or \"I want to have this kind of experience to help bolster me in certain areas.\" But then, weekly or once a month, you needed to pull out the plan and just talk about where you were on it so that, at least on a monthly basis, there was some sort of check-in. People need more frequent reinforcement about how they are doing personally on their development plans then annually or even quarterly is still too much, but between agile and these personal plans. We've got a lot of good feedback that helps support people.",[14,3451,3452,3454],{},[52,3453,3319],{},": Sharing feedback in real time is also essential to building good culture and having the context there. Because if you wait a whole quarter, somebody might not remember what the feedback is, and that's part of your accountability as a leader to share that immediate feedback, ask for immediate feedback, and check your emotions. Sometimes it's better to avoid that shouting match and say, \"Let's talk about this later, but give the feedback when we're feeling a little bit more in control of our own emotions.\" Think about talking about health as well and really giving feedback and understanding that at different stages, people might be facing different issues. What's going on and why might this performance be lagging right now? So being empathetic is also another factor in resilience.",[14,3456,3457,3459],{},[52,3458,9],{},": Let's talk about feedback for a second because this is important. You've all mentioned it in one way or another through this conversation, and we're here. Let's sit with this for a second because feedback is hard to give and receive. I'm reading a whole book about it right now on how to receive it, because no matter how thought for empathetic we are and giving feedback, it's just never taken well, especially when it's tough feedback. So for you all, what's your experience in giving feedback? How do you approach it? How do you lead with that empathy? How do you build it into your culture? People do know—what's going on? I think that can be good feedback, too. Feedback is feedback. You mentioned agile, Peter, and quarterly meetings, so people know: how else are you all delivering feedback? And how do you approach those conversations?",[14,3461,3462,3464],{},[52,3463,3283],{},": It starts with you. You need to be able to admit you were wrong and that you've made mistakes to set a tone that there's nothing emotional. It can feel emotional, but there's a place to be able to say, \"Wow, this didn't work out.\" And now, what are we going to learn from it? I've worked for CEOs who could not admit that they were wrong about anything, which was really unfortunate because they were wrong. And as a leader, you have to be able to model that kind of behavior, but that still doesn't make it easy to sit down and tell someone that it's not working or that something they did did not work. One of the tools we used in a previous job was something called a \"nine box.\" So you measure people on a three-by-three matrix.",[14,3466,3467,3469],{},[52,3468,3294],{},":  I love the nine box.",[14,3471,3472,3474],{},[52,3473,3283],{},": Their leadership potential and their performance, because there's a box in there for everybody except one. But some people are just really good at being individual contributors. Some people have management potential. But it gave us a place to say that this is not working, and why is it because we've asked you to do something that you don't feel comfortable with? Ambition-wise, is it because you weren't trained well, or you're not doing it? It just gave us a better metaphor for having a constructive place for feedback and placing it in the context of where this person wants to be, but I'll go back to it. All begins and ends with you. Sometimes you have to have a really difficult conversation, and you can't sugarcoat it. You can't check it out; you have to do it.",[14,3476,3477,3479],{},[52,3478,3308],{},": Agree. If you have feedback, if something happens in a meeting or on a project, just hop on a zoom, hop on a video, and do it in real time. The longer you prolong it, the harder it becomes to do. But I like to establish with any new hire that we will have weekly one-on-ones, and that is a dedicated time for me to give you feedback and for you to give me feedback. Ask for it from your team. What can I do better to make you more productive and enable you to be more successful, supportive, or whatever it may be? Let the team know that, \"Okay, this is our 30 minutes, and this is a feedback session, bidirectional.\" And that should make it easier to deliver and to receive. Giving feedback with also positive reinforcement touching on something that person did well makes it a bit easier to receive as well.",[14,3481,3482,3484],{},[52,3483,3319],{},": I just wanted to jump in and say yes, modeling the desire for feedback is critical. I let everyone know that I want feedback, whether it's positive or negative, and getting it as soon as possible also helps me. Just really asking for permission to give feedback sometimes can help as well. One tip I had heard was to always say \"thank you\" as soon as you receive feedback and teach others to say \"thank you\" when they receive feedback so that you can pause and think about it before jumping into a response, a rebuttal, or whatever it is that might come into your head for feedback. But having that openness for feedback is a way to open that door.",[14,3486,3487,3489],{},[52,3488,3294],{},":  One interesting observation on the feedback side that I've experienced is a little bit different. When you hire someone, you're setting pretty good expectations with them and bringing them on; at least, I do. I spend a ton of time on it, and I'll be explicit. Is that something that interests you? If not, I don't want you to take a job that's not right for you. One thing I found to be different is when you acquire an existing team and how, because the challenge is you might not even be aligned with their expectations and your expectations are of the role. I can't say I've done this, but you own it. I have done this, and it takes a longer period, but doing it earlier would be better, which means getting aligned with the role. Many times the person before you hired with completely different expectations than what you have of that role, and I found myself doing a little bit is realizing their skills aren't what I thought someone in this role would have. They have great skills. How do you apply those in the right places? So sometimes you're hitting a wall providing feedback when that's just not the skills they're experienced with. Being mindful in most scenarios, when you acquire existing teams that might have much different expectations, is something to be super considerate of. I've experienced it a few times now. If anybody else has an expensive grade point.",[14,3491,3492,3494],{},[52,3493,3319],{},":  Patrick, if I were to tell you, my feedback is you're terrible coder and you're a marketer. That's not going to be helpful feedback.",[14,3496,3497,3499],{},[52,3498,3283],{},": Going back to the modeling part, there was a member of the marketing team two jobs ago whom I just valued so much because she pulled me aside and said, \"You should know that we have something we call a Peter filter on the team because you come up with lots of ideas, and you're always coming down here with ideas.\" We're super busy, and so we have to judge these ideas. You've got a lot to figure out which one of the eight you presented us with this week is worth even exploring. I adored this woman that took some real vulnerability and bravery. It was super helpful to me because then I could not see it anymore. I'm not gonna share this link. I'm not going to suggest this thing. It works two ways.",[14,3501,3502,3504],{},[52,3503,3319],{},": One coach said, \"Your wants are that you can only see at most 80% of yourself.\" So having that mirror reflect that 20% that can help you really grow to that next level is critical.",[14,3506,3507,3509],{},[52,3508,9],{},": In giving feedback, sometimes we tell people the challenges, but we don't always give a solution. So how do you support your team in that growth opportunity? What are some ways that you help them either rise to the occasion or learn a new skill through the courses mentioned? Is there anything else?",[14,3511,3512,3514],{},[52,3513,3319],{},": Sometimes, it's just showing exactly what to do. It depends on the level of who you're training to. Sometimes it's asking the question and seeing how their approach to answering it, and sometimes it is. These are the steps I would take. Can you model that?",[14,3516,3517,3519],{},[52,3518,3294],{},": Yeah, rolling up sleeves. There are a lot of times when you can lead by example, and that can go a really long way with people, and coaching them as well. Because they might have ideas, and there might be some scenarios where you've got to figure it out and take the approach that they have expertise in, and then other things where it's like, \"No, you need to do it this explicit way.\" So hop in the trenches.",[14,3521,3522,3524],{},[52,3523,3283],{},": Give them the permission to fail along the way, or set their expectations that this is new, and then maybe increase the frequency you check in with them. Because it is new, or connect them to other people who are experts. Actually, I do that a lot. I joke with people that I spend 10% of my week connecting people I know with people they know. But if somebody wants to go do something they haven't done before or expand their skill set, a lot of times I will try and connect them to somebody, and I was doing that. Ready to let them have an independent source of guidance.",[14,3526,3527,3529],{},[52,3528,9],{},": We talked a bit about accountability. I'm using that word. I haven't heard y'all say that, but we were talking about supporting an individual with a lot of the things you came up with in terms of goals, sprint planning, and one-on-ones. And all of that is in my mind, giving clear accountability signals. Would you all agree with that? Are there other ways that you let people know that they're being held accountable without necessarily micromanaging?",[14,3531,3532,3534],{},[52,3533,3308],{},": There should be an understanding that we're all adults, and if you're leading a project or are responsible for it, there's an expectation to be accountable for it and deliver, and if they don't have that mentality, then they may not be at the right company.",[14,3536,3537,3539],{},[52,3538,3319],{},": People shouldn't be surprised, and that's one of the things that often happens. If I'm surprised as a manager that somebody's leaving, or if my person is surprised that we're asking them to leave, then something went wrong in that feedback process and accountability process. Clear communication, it's understanding consequences, having kids say, \"If this happens, this happens,\" It's not necessarily micromanaging, but being on the same page, as it relates to consequences, is important in accountability.",[14,3541,3542,3544],{},[52,3543,3283],{},": I love that, and Kerry knows I have a thing called a user manual. That's a one-page document that just explains how I behave and operate and how I expect other people I work with to. One of the statements in the user manual is that there are no penalties for action, but there are serious penalties for inaction. If you're waiting to be told, we have to have a conversation. But if you've run as fast as you can and used your best judgment, and it was the wrong path, at least you ran, and now we know something. You can't have surprises. Letting us know early that this thing is not tracking well is a lot better than the day before it's due and saying we are weeks behind.",[14,3546,3547,3549],{},[52,3548,3294],{},": Move fast and break things approach. Sometimes you have people that maybe work for someone previously where they were taking orders of what to do. You have to break right what they know is another thing that drives an action. Inside, I'm very explicit, especially to own this thing, make decisions, and do stuff, and even if the outcome is 50% of what it could be, that's still way better than where we're at today. We're trying to move from about one out of 10 to three out of 10, and that's progress. Maybe a five out of 10 in continuing to move the needle so it's not obsessing about perfection more about action",[14,3551,3552,3554],{},[52,3553,3308],{},": SMART goals really helped with that. Because if someone had 10 things on their plate to do, the direction given was aligned with a SMART goal. If it's not, then it falls down on the list and isn't a priority. It's giving that autonomy and ownership to make those decisions and use time management with the proper goal setting early on. Project management tools help so that you have a nice high-level view of what everyone's working on and make sure that they know the due dates and everything so there's no confusion on didn't know when this was due or didn't know it was assigned to me.",[14,3556,3557,3559],{},[52,3558,9],{},": If it's not in our product management tool, it either won't happen or didn't happen.",[14,3561,3562,3564],{},[52,3563,3294],{},": I'm the worst offender. I try to get stuff into a project management tool, but sometimes it's a hard. It’s discipline.",[14,3566,3567,3569],{},[52,3568,3319],{},": If you try to do it all yourself, then you will burn out. So that's something that you learn as you go from individual to manager to leader: how do you prioritize your own time and help your team prioritize their time so that they're able to split the work and not try to do it all at once, but be able to if your skill set isn't inputting your projects into your project management tool having an add part, the growth path.",[14,3571,3572,3574],{},[52,3573,9],{},": Let's talk about the results of this. In the last few years, from mostly most companies being in person, most clients not seeing each other, and most cultures being unintentional, which we all talked about how well that goes, where you're not having an intentional culture to this shift, where we are being more intentional, where we are holding accountable because it's a hard shift to make for some people, especially when they feel they can't see their people, what's been the results of this kind of culture from both a company standpoint as well as a business standpoint?",[14,3576,3577,3579],{},[52,3578,3283],{},": Two jobs ago at that company, I was at the marketing team and was able to achieve a 37% close rate from form submission to revenue for inbound leads, which is ten times the industry average, and that's because the team was empowered. They made mistakes, took risks, learned from failure, and successively ratcheted that conversion rate up over 14 months. It wasn't because I said to raise it. It's because of their curiosity; they were just an awesome team that thrived on curiosity and failure.",[14,3581,3582,3584],{},[52,3583,3319],{},": Just the results of good health, we've measured improvements in physical and mental health when you have that culture alignment, as well as reduce burnout of 60% is a stat that we've calculated with our clinically validated research. And then we've also reduced turnover by a pretty extensive amount, so those are all issues like absenteeism and burnout that you reduce, and then you increase productivity, performance, and results, like increased conversions and more sales.",[14,3586,3587,3589],{},[52,3588,3308],{},": Employee happiness, employee satisfaction, and anything work-life balance can be measured, obviously, in team productivity. If teams feel their setups are of success, and they're all bought into a strategy and a plan, they'll naturally perform better.",[14,3591,3592,3594],{},[52,3593,3294],{},":  I agree. The aspect of quality of things goes up when you have the time to actually process and think about it. That's one thing that people don't quantify enough .You need downtime to be able to process things and think about things more strategically. The importance of the individual, mental health and happiness of employees is really important, too. When you ask the simple questions of, like, \"Hey, are you going to be here a year from now?\" and seeing improvements on that, so you want a place where people want to be. They have choice; everyone has a choice of where they want to work and what they want to do. It's incredibly important to prioritize people and culture in that way.",[14,3596,3597,3599],{},[52,3598,3283],{},": The results flow from that. If you create that culture of trust and performance, then you're in a position to get awesome business results. You're also helping people achieve their career paths that they are naming their ambitions. You're helping them feel valued in what they do; you're helping them feel like they can take risks and be rewarded. Results are 100% a function of this culture you're creating for an employee to be the very best.",[14,3601,3602,3604],{},[52,3603,3319],{},": Resilient people lead to resilient organizations and we've seen that resilient organizations outperform in the market. So bottom line is perform for your people.",[14,3606,3607,3609],{},[52,3608,9],{},":  I knew it was gonna happen. Thank you all so much. I'm so grateful that you could all join me, Janice, Patrick, Peter, and Aileen. It's been an absolute honor learning from you all today.",[14,3611,3612],{},"Thank you to our listeners for joining us. If you would like to connect with Janice, Patrick, Peter or Aileen, their links are in the show notes.",[14,3614,3615],{},"Be sure to connect and learn more about the great teams that they're building and how they're doing it. You too, can build a resilient culture company and, ultimately, life.",[24,3617,3619],{"id":3618},"outro","Outro",[14,3621,3622],{},"Thank you again for joining us on this Tech Marketing Leader Roundtable. We'll be hosting this once a quarter so be sure to subscribe to our newsletter so you don't miss the next one.",[14,3624,3625],{},"This roundtable was brought to you by MKG Marketing - the digital marketing agency that helps cyber security and data management platforms get found via transparent, measurable digital marketing.",[14,3627,3628],{},"It’s hosted by me, Kerry Guard - CEO and co-founder of MKG",[14,3630,3631],{},"Music, mix, and mastering done by Austin Ellis.",[14,3633,3634],{},"If you’d like to be a guest, please connect and send me a DM.",[14,3636,3637],{},"I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you all!",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3639},[3640,3644],{"id":1508,"depth":291,"text":3256,"children":3641},[3642,3643],{"id":3259,"depth":297,"text":3260},{"id":3272,"depth":297,"text":3273},{"id":3618,"depth":291,"text":3619},"2022-10-23T16:10+00:00","Join these tech marketing leaders, as we discuss the importance of balancing your team's well being while trying to hit those lofty quarterly goals.","\u002Fimages\u002Fpexels-min-an-1313814.jpg",{},"\u002Fevents\u002Fculture-that-converts",{"title":3251,"description":3646},[3652,3657,3662,3667],{"name":3283,"title":3653,"company":3654,"img":3655,"url":3656},"Fractional CMO","Authentic Brand","\u002Fimages\u002Fpeter-z-image-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fpeterzaballos\u002F",{"name":3308,"title":3658,"company":3659,"img":3660,"url":3661},"Director of Demand Generation","VISO Trust","\u002Fimages\u002Faileen-casmano-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Faileencasmano\u002F",{"name":3319,"title":3663,"company":3664,"img":3665,"url":3666},"Strategic Partnerships","meQuilibrium","\u002Fimages\u002Fjanice-image-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fjanicedru\u002F",{"name":3294,"title":3668,"company":3669,"img":3670,"url":3671},"VP of Marketing","Nucleus Security","\u002Fimages\u002Fpatrick-image-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fpatrickmgarrity\u002F","events\u002Fculture-that-converts","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fvideo\u002Fevent\u002Furn:li:ugcPost:6968514266760945664\u002F","iPqM02e6L0dkic7ip2-edvPTvdz0lZpwOGeFcdFyFbM",{"id":3676,"title":3677,"body":3678,"date":4049,"description":4050,"extension":318,"img":4051,"meta":4052,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":4053,"seo":4054,"speakers":4055,"stem":4070,"updated":7,"watchOnDemand":4071,"__hash__":4072},"events\u002Fevents\u002Fgreat-resignation.md","The Great Resignation",{"type":11,"value":3679,"toc":4044},[3680,3682,3685,3688,3691,3694,3696,3701,3707,3712,3717,3722,3728,3733,3738,3743,3749,3754,3759,3764,3769,3774,3779,3782,3785,3790,3795,3800,3805,3808,3813,3818,3823,3828,3833,3838,3843,3846,3849,3854,3857,3862,3867,3872,3877,3880,3885,3890,3895,3900,3905,3910,3915,3920,3925,3930,3935,3940,3945,3950,3955,3960,3965,3970,3975,3980,3985,3990,3995,4000,4005,4010,4015,4020,4025,4027,4030,4033,4041],[81,3681,3260],{"id":3259},[14,3683,3684],{},"Hello. I'm Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing, and welcome to this Live Round Table where we're going to discuss the challenges of the Great Resignation, also known as the Great RE-evaluation. People are assessing their careers, job, and company and deciding what’s not working for them, and leaving in for a new career, a new company, a new opportunity. And while I'm immensely proud of these people because they should absolutely love what they do, it is a creative challenge over here in the marketing world and in multiple industries, but definitely in ours as well. And so today, we are going to talk to some marketing leaders. We got Christina and Ruth with us, and we're waiting for Lisa. She'll be on when she can, and I can't wait to add her. She'll be a great addition to the conversation.",[14,3686,3687],{},"We're going to talk today about how the Great RE-evaluation has affected us and what, most importantly, we're doing about it. Because both Ruth, Christina, and Lisa have all worked across the agency and brand side, we thought this would be a great opportunity to lean into a little bit of that relationship, given we all need each other right now. Times are tough. And so, having each other on both the brand and agency side and making sure that that's a strong partnership is crucial right now more than ever. So that's what we're going to dig into. I'm excited for the conversation needs to be awesome—a little bit of housekeeping and a little bit of time to give Lisa. So, hop on here!",[14,3689,3690],{},"Before I launch into introductions and questions, I just want to make some promises to you as the audience or listeners that we will keep the discussion on the topic. It’s why you’re here and what we’ll honor. This isn’t about our companies or selling. This is an honest, authentic conversation with real experts who are living and breathing this challenge and how we can learn from them in applying it to our own brands.",[14,3692,3693],{},"For those listening, please engage in the comments. We have AnDrae’ Jones and Mike Krass hanging with you all. They’ll be there to field your comments over to me for our guests to answer at the end. We'll make sure to leave time because we want to hear from you too. They’re great. Thanks, AnDrae’ and Mike!",[81,3695,3273],{"id":3272},[14,3697,3698,3700],{},[52,3699,9],{},": Are you ready?",[14,3702,3703,3706],{},[52,3704,3705],{},"Christina Kay",": I think so. Let's go!",[14,3708,3709,3711],{},[52,3710,9],{},": Alright! I always want to start off with a question during the introduction. So a chance for you guys to say your name, what you do, but also your journey. You know, let's give some background to how you went from agency to brand or brand to agency or back and forth. So what's your name? What do you do, and what's been your experience? I'll start with you, Christina.",[14,3713,3714,3716],{},[52,3715,3705],{},": Perfect. Hi, y'all. I'm Christina Kay, VP of Marketing at Reseller Ratings. We're a startup. So it's kind of like the agency world in the sense that you do so many different things. I run operations for our CS Sales and Marketing, as well as all of our campaigns for marketing, and am just the head of our Tech Stack. And then I ping pong between the agency and marketing. My whole entire career, I started out in an agency. Then, I went to an international agency and then came to the States. I did brand, and then I just basically was a ping pong ball until now I'm back on the brand side, and I love it. And yeah, that's about me.",[14,3718,3719,3721],{},[52,3720,9],{},": Alright, Ruth.",[14,3723,3724,3727],{},[52,3725,3726],{},"Ruth Wisniewski",": Awesome! My name is Ruth Wisniewski. I am a Customer Success Team Manager here over at BrightEdge. We are a software as a service. We specialize in SEO. I, too, have gone back and forth between both brands and agency life. I actually started on the brand side and was curious. I wanted to explore my options and work at the agency side, and that's where I got pulled into the digital side of agency life. So that is where my expertise lies, the digital aspect of that agency life and brand side. My career path was a little bit interesting. In that, I got my healthcare master's at one point, because I worked at the Cleveland Clinic in their Marketing Department. And somehow, I've been able to leverage that here at BrightEdge, having a book of business that I supported for a while before becoming a manager where it was very healthcare-oriented. But I love both sides. And I can't wait to get into this discussion. So, Kerry, I don't know if we want to start questions.",[14,3729,3730,3732],{},[52,3731,9],{},": Yeah, we'll kick it off when Lisa hops soon. I'll be sure to take a minute to have her introduce herself and then have her join in. But I think we can keep on, keeping re-live. This is a re-live, right? Awesome. So I want to kick off with the idea of the Great Resignation, or I love how somebody put it as the Great Re-evaluation. I thought that was so cool. I saw that on LinkedIn. What does that mean to you both? I mean, we all sort of have different experiences and different points of view on this. So Ruth, what does the Great RE-evaluation mean, in your opinion?",[14,3734,3735,3737],{},[52,3736,3726],{},": Right. I think this stems from people, during the pandemic, having a little more downtime to be thoughtful. We weren't traveling, we weren't commuting, we were in our homes, and we were kind of evaluating what matters to us. And your career is such a big part of your life, and getting joy and happiness from what you do is so important. I think that it definitely was what steemed it. So what it meant to me was, you know, seeing colleagues that I loved, and deciding to take flight and explore new challenges and opportunities, and being able to support them, but also, at the same time, having a new point of view to join our organization, and new blood and new enthusiasm, like this refresh comes in. And so it's been a celebration, for sure, across the board, it's had its challenges. I think that having those brands and agency life has helped with that. We need to pull in the agency to act as an overflow or expansion of resources and a way to tap into expertise. And at the same time, you know, on the brand side, being able to understand where we need to pull people in, do some recruiting, and really speak to what matters to them. Oh, Lisa's here!",[14,3739,3740,3742],{},[52,3741,9],{},": Lisa, welcome.",[14,3744,3745,3748],{},[52,3746,3747],{},"Lisa McDermott",": Hello! Funny story. Andrae and I were hanging out in a different room. I mean, we were having our own little party, but it wasn't this party. Hello!",[14,3750,3751,3753],{},[52,3752,9],{},": Hello, welcome to this party. We're excited that you were able to hop over. I'm so sorry, that's technology!",[14,3755,3756,3758],{},[52,3757,3747],{},": Happy to be here. Nice to see you ladies.",[14,3760,3761,3763],{},[52,3762,9],{},": Lisa, if you could just give us a little bit of where you are right now in terms of who you're working for and your title, as well as, we were talking about the agency and brand life, so you've lived both. What's your journey there?",[14,3765,3766,3768],{},[52,3767,3747],{},": Sure. So right now, I'm at a company called Acqueon Technologies, or Acqueon for short. I'm the Vice President of Marketing, and I'm new there, I just celebrated my one month. So it's been quite a month. It's been an adventure, but a really good one. Acqueon is in the contact center and like kind of a customer experience space there and AI-powered integration that clips in with all the major enterprise contact center platform providers that you probably know about, like Cisco, Avaya, five9, ANICINCOM, AWS connect, and so forth. And so they power really advanced, sophisticated outbound campaign management and, you know, conversational engagement. We're just transforming the landscape of customer engagement. So that's where I am now. And I'm, like, obviously, on the client-side of the world right now. Prior to Acqueon I was with a company called CoreDial that just got acquired. I was there for about four years as the Vice President of Marketing and also on the client-side, but then prior to CoreDial I was on the agency side of the world for almost a decade now probably eight years, working at an agency called Stratus Interactive right in the West Chester, Pennsylvania area, which is near Philadelphia, which I'm sure you know, Kerry, and we were like a full-service digital agency like full service integrated digital. We were HubSpot Platinum Partner. So totally different world than what I'm living in now but kind of the path that I took was, I was on the agency side. We had a client, many clients, but CoreDial was one of them. And CoreDial just kind of, I think, had really tried the agency model for many years and never quite found what they were looking for like they tried to build an in-house marketing department and hadn't quite worked. But that's really what they wanted. And so they just kept trying to see, you know, maybe if there was an appetite for some of the Stratus agency folks to come inside, and well, eventually we did. And so I transitioned over from working at the agency to coming full time into CoreDial. That's kind of how I made the switch, and I'm very happy on the client-side of the world right now.",[14,3770,3771,3773],{},[52,3772,9],{},": Awesome. We were just talking about the Great Resignation, also known as the Great RE-evaluation, and Ruth, thank you for giving your point of view and what it means to you. Christina, what does it mean to you this new turn of events?",[14,3775,3776,3778],{},[52,3777,3705],{},": Yeah, so a lot of the points Ruth hit on our 1,000% spot on what I feel with this as well. And the thing that we say a lot at Reseller Ratings is finding the right people for the right seat, because you can find the best marketer, best salesperson, but maybe might not be the seat that you're in at the company, things like that.",[14,3780,3781],{},"Everybody is a different personality, and things work out ways that they do but with the Great Resignation and just with a pandemic, I feel like people have really, this is gonna sound very Lovey Dovey, I guess, but they found like themselves, self-awareness, many things, and they found things that are right for them. So for us, that's super good when we are like interviewing or have positions open, because we can really find that person that's authentic, not saying everybody's not, but I'm just saying in this aspect of like interviewing people really do like, show their true self because of the pandemic or like , part of me, I want to be fully remote, like, I need these benefits, because we're still in it. At the beginning of it, if you live alone, you don't know really what's going on in a sense. And so you really do have to, like find that love of being with yourself. And I think that's translated in the workplace to really show passionate people that they love working for great leaders, as long as maybe that's like ‘’Hey, I want to work for myself, and I'm gonna leave’’ And that's a huge thing that I've seen. And then on like, the side of finding work, or I mean, finding work, finding people, but finding like agencies, I've seen it both ways, like being on a waiting list for an agency. Like that's not a thing I've ever heard of really, but that also one shows agency, that they respect their employee saying ‘’Hey, they already have too much to do’’ Because in my day at some agencies, not MKG, but some agencies, it was just so much like another client, like ‘’What?’’ you know, so I feel like the great resignation has helped transform people's mindset of business, and it's not just all about money. It's about people's like well-being and happiness, and that translates. If you are on the client-side, it really translates to that CS side because then you're going to be happier talking to your clients. And you're gonna have that more authentic approach.",[14,3783,3784],{},"I feel in every aspect, it's almost a good thing and but it's stressful because especially if you have to be the copywriter, but also designing things and doing marketing automation. Like yes, that's a lie. But that's where maybe you go to like Upwork or something like that, to find that person just to kind of be there until you find that person that's perfect for that seat in your company.",[14,3786,3787,3789],{},[52,3788,9],{},": Not a hat, the hats. Lisa what has the Great RE-evaluation meant to you?",[14,3791,3792,3794],{},[52,3793,3747],{},": I mean, it's meant like things to me personally, just because I have kind of been part of it from a couple of different ends now, like obviously, being a leader through the Great Resignation, having to transition a team during COVID to fully remote work for the first time ever. Hiring, seeing people turn through that, but also being someone who was looking for their next career opportunity through this phase of Great Resignation and RE-evaluation. I've seen it from a couple of different angles and experienced it on multiple levels. And for me personally, what it meant I think in my past life, like in going into other things like career opportunity searches, I prioritized different things and probably wasn't as confident in being vocal or not negotiating about the things that were important to me. And I think just knowing that so many people were reevaluating, and we were becoming more self-aware, like, it just gave me greater confidence to say, \"You know what, these are the things that are important to me right now.\" Like, for example, and I think it's a guy, I don't think my leadership would mind me sharing this. They were trying to build and are trying to build a hub of employees in the Dallas, Texas area, and they asked me if relocation was something I would consider. And they asked me more than once, and more than one person asked me, and for me, that just was like, No! I can't. It's not something I'm going to do at this stage in my life, but being on the side of a job search and really wanting to find your next thing so passionately. I don't know if anyone can relate to this. I've found myself almost second-guessing like, well, it isn't that important to me. Maybe I would be considered a low relocation, and I should chat with my husband after this interview, but no, of course, I am not going to relocate. That's definitely a hard no for me. You know that this is just like an environment where I felt very confident in saying the things that I really meant. So that's kind of how I personally experienced it. But being someone now who's trying to build a team in a new company and being on the recruitment side of the world, I'm just one of several leaders and hiring managers within my company who are trying to build a team right now.\nAnd so recruitment really is, like, a collaborative effort. It's hard. There are a lot of awesome jobs out there, and candidates really have their pick of the litter. And no, it's a lot more than just offering a good salary and good benefits and talking about culture being, but I mean, people really are in a position of power right now, which just have been a job search candidate, like I appreciate, and I'm glad that people are in a position of power, but being the hiring manager looking to build a team, I'm like ''Dang! This is hard right now.\" So there's just a lot going on. But no matter what, no, even though the recruitment process was so labor-intensive, sometimes I feel exhausted, like, I'm so happy that there's been this shift, like more power to all these people out there looking for jobs. And it's making people like me and hiring managers like rising to the occasion and really come through, do what we want to do, or say we're going to do, and give people a reason to say yes to our job, which I think makes us step up to be better leaders, overall. So I mean, pros and cons, but I'd say more pros.",[14,3796,3797,3799],{},[52,3798,9],{},": Countability, for sure. Leadership 100%. And finally, what are y'all doing about it, Christina? What are some solutions you are looking into? I know that we have and this is pretty new. It started last April, where we started to see the increase of people leaving their jobs. So I'm not saying you guys have your silver bullets in your back pocket, although, you know, if you have, feel free to share, so what have you tried and what's worked and what hasn't?",[14,3801,3802,3804],{},[52,3803,3705],{},": So, a couple of things. We really have found luck. Well, I say \"we,\" but our CEO, he like finds gold mines on Upwork, I'm not very good at doing that. He does a very good job at it. So we have a lot of our dev team that we're finding comes in full time from them. Another thing is that not everybody loves this, but me being like the tech automation nerd that I am, I've done a lot of AI stuff that would be in place of a person.\nA lot of automation and processes I put in place that are in place of people. I'm not saying we're over-engineering or like doing that to get people out, that's not what I mean by any means, but there are some things that can be automated with really great AI solutions. We have a tech tool that is crazy incredible that's helping us prospect and like book demos at a BDR wood, because a BDR you can find when probably is fairly a BDR like entry-level like SDR I guess you can say, salesperson, you can find them, but there's a lot of training involved in it. But if you're already wearing so many hats, that's taking time off from that.",[14,3806,3807],{},"We just have to find out what's going to drive the business for us and what our goals are. So that's why, for us, we're looking in the sense of a lot of that automation AI side, because I love that. And it's the crazy things that you can do with it, not just on the sales side, but also with CS, which we're doing right now. What we're doing as well is, to be honest, we're not posting the jobs that we're really looking for. It's kind of talking to people and seeing, like, if I have friends, I've got a pretty big network. And so I just kind of see what they're doing and I'm like, hey, if they're in the line of work or they've done something similar to what we're looking for, let's have a conversation, and then at that point that you find that perfect person for the seat instead of having people apply. Because when you apply, you're putting on your best face, in a sense, and sometimes you don't realize what you're getting. That sounds bad. But you know what I mean in the nicest way. But when you really go to people and say, \"Hey, we have this amazing role, we think you're perfect for it'' or ''I think you're perfect for it. Let's write your job description. \" And I'm going to pitch you to my CEO, basically. That's what I've been doing, and it's been working fairly well. There's like one area that we're just struggling with, but there's that's for everybody. I feel this just because it's very competitive in this world. You're on mute.",[14,3809,3810,3812],{},[52,3811,9],{},": Yeah! It's just melting, so competitive. It's tough out there. Lisa, and Ruth, you guys. Would you have tried reaching out to kick us off? What have you tried lately? What's been working for you or not?",[14,3814,3815,3817],{},[52,3816,3726],{},": It's good! Well, we have recruiters in-house that are definitely helping us. But I think the conversation to Lisa's point earlier about being able to like say ‘’No’’ when she didn't want to move or relocate. That transparency, I think, has been very helpful. I think people being more honest with their wants and needs in a role has allowed us to say okay, this isn't gonna work much faster but also this is a good much faster. So I think that the speed to placement has been helped through honesty, because people are empowered. And when they're empowered to ask the right questions and surface up the right concerns, I can answer them. So for me, that's, that's been something as far as filling seats and rolls during this. I guess I'll throw it over to Lisa. Next.",[14,3819,3820,3822],{},[52,3821,3747],{},": Kerry, I think you brought up a really good point, in terms of the speed of placement. I've been part of organizations in the past, and I remember when I started my job search a couple of months ago, I was seeing a lot of LinkedIn posts about 6,7,8,9 step interview processes. Luckily, I didn't have to go through anything that intense to land where I am now, and I can appreciate and respect a thorough interview process, but what it's done for me now being in the position where I need to hire and build a team is to be much more purposeful and prepared for every interview I come into because I don't want to have that person go through four or five, or six interviews. I might lose a good candidate if I can't say \"yes\" by interview number two or three, right? I mean, that's happening. It's just making me much more critical about the questions I'm asking and probably a little bit more direct and candid, like in those initial conversations. I think that's a good thing. The other thing, just to comment on what's working for me personally right now, I mean, LinkedIn has been awesome, and just being proactive with my voice about what I'm looking for and helping my colleagues promote their positions as well—but tapping into my network. I forgot who said that but I think it was you, Christina. I'm tapping in.\nI've gotten so many awesome resumes from previous colleagues and friends from LinkedIn somewhere who are sending their referrals my way, and I think that's my silver bullet personally. And it's not like about who you know, and it's just like a faster path to feeling good about a person because we're interviewing strangers right when it really comes down to it, and you're right, people are probably putting on their best face as they should during the interview process. And so I have someone who I at least have some established level of acquaintanceship or trust with and they recommend someone to me. I'm so grateful for that. Because it already like establishes, you know, we've gotten to like a second base, or we've gotten half of the way through establishing that initial report just because there is a referral and not a total random resume coming through. So I'm going to continue to do that. Because I feel like that's going to be where I find the most success and the best people for sure, that's been a little weird, though. I mean, it really feels like I'm selling myself constantly on LinkedIn, which is not necessarily my comfort level. But I'm like, you know, \"Come, come here! Choose us, look at us, like we're hiring. But I see a lot of other very respected companies and colleagues doing that as well. I feel like you have to do that, right? Otherwise, you're just going to get lost in the shuffle.",[14,3824,3825,3827],{},[52,3826,9],{},": Let's shift gears a little bit because one of the solutions we talked about and why I brought you guys, specifically you gals, specifically because of your experience of living on both the agency and the client-side. And I feel like one of the things you guys all talked about in the great resignation was leaning on your agency partners a bit more to try to find the right agency fit. Given the tough times, we're in? So have you been doing that? What's been the experience thereof bringing in partnerships for help? I'll start with Ruth.",[14,3829,3830,3832],{},[52,3831,3726],{},": Absolutely! So I would say I am not part of my marketing team, per se. But what I do is help my clients use our internal agency or consulting resources. And so, for my clients, I'm finding that it's super important that they can flex. And when they need additional resources, have someone like myself ask for that additional resource. When they need to pull back as well, like if there are budget cuts, maybe, you know, COVID has hit their industry hard, being able to say, ''Okay, can we get creative here and how we reevaluate things commercially.\" And so I'm seeing it work for a broadband of industry types and clients, and being creative and flexible, and understanding of where everybody's coming from has been really good for us and has really strengthened our relationships with our clients.",[14,3834,3835,3837],{},[52,3836,9],{},": Lisa, Christina, anything to add?",[14,3839,3840,3842],{},[52,3841,3747],{},": Yeah, I'm a big proponent of leaning on agencies. I'm a big fan of hiring them for specific skill sets that I think are especially difficult to hire for or just that I think are best served by an agency. So, like lots of digital, paid search, and SEO, I've always found success in using an agency model for that. And so, stepping into this new role, I knew they had an SEO and like a paid search vendor, but you never know what you're inheriting with the stack of vendors and agency partnerships. I was really pleasantly surprised when the vendor that I stepped into was an awesome one.",[14,3844,3845],{},"I know some people come into a new role, and they want a clean slate, kind of hiring everyone, the way that they want to hire everyone and work with the exact agencies that they're comfortable with. And I take a different approach, like, I think if I'm new to the role, and there's an agency that's been on board with the team in place for longer than I have, then there's probably something I can learn from that. If it doesn't end up being the right fit, we'll figure that out and maybe part ways in the future, but I'm certainly not going to come in and just to clean shop. I personally think that's not the approach that works for me at least. But I think one thing, and this isn't necessarily commenting on the agency side of the world, but as we try to figure out how to build our team, recruit, find the right candidates, like where to plug in agencies and not, I think there's also value in this. It kind of speaks to your point about using AI right to look for resources, to find ways to tap into the current team members that I have not even just in the marketing department, but maybe in, you know, an aquatic team or in the sales team. And, you know, while we are trying to figure out what agents can go with, like, I think we talked about this in our prep call.",[14,3847,3848],{},"I think the best agency relationships work when they're given the ability to succeed by having parameters of good directive. And I think that if we can compile the information we need from not just the marketing team, but like the other. No parallel are aligned departments. We can set agencies up for even better chances for success and that's one thing I'm doing right now, trying to get as much as I can from the team members that are in house to get really good information over to the agencies that are already in place, so that they can fly and flourish. Because I don't want to have to find your agency, I don't want to have to hire if we've got an agency that's already doing a killer job at what they were hired to do. And I just want to make that successful. But agencies are hard to find. Yeah, I think good agencies are hard to find. There are a lot of awesome ones out there, but there's a good chance that they've got a full plant list, right? There might be a waiting list now. So you know, it's a struggle.",[14,3850,3851,3853],{},[52,3852,3705],{},": And like one thing that we're doing, we're not looking right now for our agency because we want our foundation set. Before we do that so that we can set them up for success, I'm not saying we don't have some type of foundation, but we're like a 10-year-old startup. Our CEO and CRO bought the company from the parent company about two years ago. So we're still figuring out our identity. We know it fairly well, but we kind of want to go where we want to go, and that foundation set is crucial.",[14,3855,3856],{},"We went through a big migration recently, and a lot of things that we're working through, just like processes, and just our own thinking, if we want to rebrand for different things, there are just a lot of things we want to decide first. And we've even thought about doing kind of a fractional consultant for a little bit. To help with that, just because we really want that foundation set before we have that agency partnership, because I want an agency partnership that we work with for like years because you could really build together. And that's gonna end me being in the agency world, I've been at an agency where they have clients that have for years, and it's a lot. So I feel like I don't want to put that agency in that position. I want to give them almost like, not a plan. But saying things like, \"This is what we've done.\" \"This is where we came from,\" This is where we want to go,'' And like ''Let's do this together.",[14,3858,3859,3861],{},[52,3860,9],{},": I think that's so key to this conversation around. What sets agencies up for success Lisa and Christina? You both mentioned on the brand side, what you feel like sets agencies up for success, before I flip it in terms of how agencies can ensure their success. Ruth, do you have anything to add from having worked on the brand side of, like, anything we serve? Christina didn't mention that you feel like is critical to setting up an agency to be successful and to be around for lots of years.",[14,3863,3864,3866],{},[52,3865,3726],{},": Just kind of a nuance just like Lisa's talking about coming into a new agency, right? She started a new role, inherited people, giving them the opportunity to see how things are the lay of the land, how things were going, and they seemed to be going really well. So that's awesome. But a nuance of making sure and ensuring that the success continues understands what they can bring to the table and giving them that opportunity whenever there's a new initiative internally shared with the agency, right? We assume we know everything, but that agency is growing at the same time we're growing. So, when we allow them to pitch us a little bit, like bring forth what they can do more frequently, we learn about that. And they already have a relationship there. So they say the expansion is natural. So for me, on the brand side, that's always been something that I've tried to make sure that I'm always receptive to that, and allow that, learn from it, and listen to it. And then the opportunity, like I said, it's just an act, a natural augmentation of hope that we've already got going all that good energy.",[14,3868,3869,3871],{},[52,3870,9],{},": I love that. Yes! Let's flip it. How can agencies ensure that they have what they need to be successful? What was your experience like? Have you walked into any brand relationships and felt like something was missing? Or do you have a good example of where they set you up for success? What does success look like on the agency side?",[14,3873,3874,3876],{},[52,3875,3747],{},": I can start at ..I have a pretty opinionated response to that. So I have worked with really good clients, and it was clear that they were professionals that using agencies and knew how to optimize that relationship. And then there were clients who were coming in and expecting that agency to be like the saving grace that figured it all out for them without them putting in the legwork, which is so difficult to deal with on the agency side. And so I think that if you're on the agency side, and you are presented with a client who is just coming in and waving flags, and they're excitable, and they've got all these ideas, but they don't really provide a deeper level insight into what their goals are, why they're excited about these ideas, that's a red flag for me.",[14,3878,3879],{},"Well, it's never fun to squash someone's momentum and excitement. You also have to bring a level of realism and set the table with realistic expectations and ask, I asked a ton of questions, like if I don't understand something, and I've got one hour with this client a week for us to come together. And then I'm supposed to go off with my team and make magic happen. You better believe that I'm walking away from that hour conversation knowing exactly what that person wants, and they're gonna have to breathe a little and answer the questions in a way that shows that they actually do know what they want. And they didn't just like, see the meeting, pop up on their calendar and say, \"Oh, I got my agency today.\" Let me just like, run into that meeting and get everyone excitable and Tasmanian Devil my way in there. And then they leave everyone in a tizzy. When I leave that one-hour call like that, it's not a recipe for success, in my opinion.",[14,3881,3882,3884],{},[52,3883,3705],{},": I think on that.. it's like really, in the beginning, having those or if you're walking into a situation, kind of talking about those expectations. Because what someone hears is an expectation, which could be how someone else translates it differently. And you kind of have to, like, spell it out in the sense just because you don't want to get to the QBR, and they're like, \"This is not what we talked about.\" They're like, \"Yes, it is,\" you know like we know. So I feel like really starting from the beginning and kind of having those, if you have it like weekly, monthly, bi-weekly, whatever, just kind of having that checkpoint in the beginning and saying, \"This is the strategy for like Q1, and maybe we're going to talk about the goals for like key to going forward\" but you kind of want to break it down because, as I've learned too, if you talk just like yearly, it can get overwhelming, or can get you too excited and then you don't really focus on that goal that you're trying to build out for the year because you have to start somewhere to get to that bigger goal, for example, I like freelance and I have a client that is a startup, and they're on HubSpot, and I love HubSpot. I sometimes need to like before they call me \"We can do this\". We could do this, you know I'm like, basically like a puppy, but I have to set myself back. It's like, Christina, this is our priority. This is what we need to do first, and then you can show them the shiny stuff that you can do with it after, kind of have to like ''I could be that person''. I'm not like, \"Yeah, just get excited.\" But then it's like, okay, let's break it down by also maybe their journey, like a customer journey map, and just say this is a priority for like Q1, Q2, Q3 Q4, but then it could obviously snowball into other things, and you do have to say then, \"Hey, this is coming up as it looks like it could be a priority.\" What should we take off the list, because you can't do everything, and it could be out of scope. And I've been to places that are like, \"Oh, just add it,\" and you're like, \"Awesome\" or \"Great\". You that adds like 10 hours to your week may be in that light work-life balance. And then it gets into that bad stigma of what agency life could be, but if an agency is set up to really fulfill people's work-life balance in the way MKG does a great job at, it really shouldn't be a thing. You have to be really transparent both ways. And sometimes it's a hard conversation, but they will respect you more in the long run.",[14,3886,3887,3889],{},[52,3888,9],{},": I want to touch on something that both Ruth and Christina said. Ruth mentioned that it's from the client's side to go in and to make sure that if you need something, you bring in your existing agencies and let them pitch, which I love. On the foot side, an agency going on foot, Christina says, is like having all these great ideas and wanting to know how to explode from your person all over the clients. Definitely not a good idea. However, do you wait for the client to tell you that they want these ideas, or should you be bringing them ideas? Where's the balance in that?",[14,3891,3892,3894],{},[52,3893,3705],{},": What I do with like my freelance clients, I have a golden star doc, like Google Doc. And I just kind of have a shareable document of just all the ideas going through that we can share. Then during our meetings, we can either like redline them or not, even through that, just throughout the week. Whatever we can say, hey, so that at this point, too, it's kind of like a collaborative effort ongoing, and you don't have to like focus on that hour. Because sometimes you can, like, get off on tangents or something. But this, you can also learn how their brain works, how they process stuff, how they comment on things and just having that open dialogue with just like, \"You're golden'' or even, like, \"You're still Silver Bullet ideas,\" stuff like that because you don't want to like, obviously, do like a fire hose to them. You don't want that either on the receiving end. So just being like opening on the same, okay, maybe like a wish list, or what's your whatever, make it a fun, cute name, and have it just be a collaborative thing. That's what I've done. And I've definitely seen myself perform better with that, as well as just it's really fun to get to know the client in that sense as well.",[14,3896,3897,3899],{},[52,3898,3726],{},": I love the ongoing list idea, Christina. I'm totally gonna adapt that. Oh, my goodness! I'm losing my voice. Sorry. But I think another thing that I found successful in that partnership and collaboration and ideas and like giving them the ideas, but not overwhelming them on every call. And it's actually like carving out time for that. Like, I think, Christina, you also brought up quarterly business reviews and having goals at a quarterly, like allocating some time during that for like forward-looking idea generation or new services have you thought of and, you know. So carving out time specifically for \"what are the new opportunities?\" or \"how can we help you, here's what we've got on our side'' It shouldn't just be a report out or goal setting. There should be a little bit of brainstorming and collaborative effort, creativity going on. I find that works.",[14,3901,3902,3904],{},[52,3903,3705],{},": Because it also builds trust. That completely builds trust and transparency and just a better relationship, in my opinion.",[14,3906,3907,3909],{},[52,3908,3747],{},": One of the recent agencies that I worked with did it that way, like they built that creative time, that innovation time into their retainer, and we agreed upon it, like I knew that a portion of their monthly bandwidth would be devoted to just like coming up with some out of the box, or maybe not out of the box, but just like more creative ways to do things. But I knew that that innovation and creative time were being spent on things directly aligned with our goals, like that we had already agreed upon. So I was comfortable with that and now granted, like, I needed to make sure that our priorities, deadlines, and deliverables that we had agreed to get completed. And if they weren't, for some reason, then sometimes that, you know, like a cushion of creative time did have to be allocated to that. But more times are not, they were able to come to the table with some fun new things and ideas, which I love because if I could figure it all out myself, I would. Like, otherwise, like I love working with, you know, really smart people to come up with awesome ideas that I haven't thought of myself or didn't have time to focus on myself and just like thinking through this. So like, if I went back to the agency side of the world because I used to be in like business development for our agency, it could be a really cool value outline item to throw in, like if the client wasn't comfortable with devoting a portion of their retainer time to that, like that could be just a value-add, like every month to give you a few hours of time for innovation, like no cost. It's just like how we add additional value. Like, I went back to my contracts and my proposals. I think that would have resonated really well because every hour matters. There is work to get done. So sometimes that's looked at as a luxury, whereas it's a really fundamental and vital part of any agency-client relationship is having that carve out time.",[14,3911,3912,3914],{},[52,3913,3726],{},": And I have..",[14,3916,3917,3919],{},[52,3918,3705],{},": Sorry, you can go.",[14,3921,3922,3924],{},[52,3923,3726],{},": I was just gonna say it actually fits into what we know is a good marketing plan, right? There are tactics and channels that are going to continually perform for us. But we should always be testing something small and unique that we haven't done before. And if we don't collaborate and get creative and brainstorm and have that innovation time, like how are we ever going to get those metrics that could be the next superstar in our marketing plan that really generate new revenue. So I feel like diversification of a marketing plan is super important. This actually fits into this. Agencies coming with a book of business across industries can take an idea that works in one cross-pollinates it for you. So I absolutely love all of that.",[14,3926,3927,3929],{},[52,3928,3705],{},": Yes. And I was kind of .. to both of you. I feel like when you do those innovation types of conversations, you can't, and you give feedback. You can learn more about your client because you can say what they do or don't want. And obviously, the burn has to be honest back and everything like that. But also, on the cross-pollinating mindset, I think, I've been to a couple of agencies. You're not always working on this brand, but someone from that brand, or a different brand, comes and looks and kind of does an audit of what you're doing. Because if you're in that brand all day, you're going to think like not tunnel vision, but having someone else in your company working with a brand, or maybe a completely different industry comes in and looks at what you guys are doing. They can even also probably spark some ideas, or even if it gets a little stale, they can come in and help you guys out instead of having you lose a client because of that. Maybe someone internally comes in and just audits what you guys are doing, not saying anything's bad, but just kind of sparks that energy again and says, \"Hey'' like ''Maybe this is what we're doing. Let's do this,'' And that's maybe an internal meeting, like meeting that account manager have at an agency or even just social teams, like whatever it is, having Slack channels that you can just pop ideas. And hey, like this really worked for X client, like this is what we did. If you want to learn about it, I did a two-minute loom, and then we can go on into your next team member, and you can learn something.",[14,3931,3932,3934],{},[52,3933,9],{},": I love limb. Sorry all, my internet dropped me. So thank you for keeping on keeping on. I think this brings in a really great question around when you bring an agency and what should an agency own versus what should really be in house? I feel like that's sort of a struggle. So in your experience, you know, what do you need to have in place to bring that agency in? And what are you giving them? What are you holding on to?",[14,3936,3937,3939],{},[52,3938,3726],{},": I would love to answer that. Okay, so I think it depends on the organization that you're in, right? You're going to have a certain amount of talent in your organization that you can absolutely leverage, and you're going to have a certain amount that you need to tap into an agency. You'll look at the current pool of internal resources and say, \"Wow, we have a lot of expertise in XY and Z. What we don't really understand yet is paid marketing. So let's talk to an agency about search engine marketing and paid marketing, and let's see what they can bring and evaluate them'' If there's no internal expertise on it, it's not something that I would want to invest dollars and fail. So for me, when I come into the brand side of things, I am always looking at who am I currently working with? What resources and knowledge do they know? I'm not gonna set anyone up for failure when I know that we can tap into an agency.",[14,3941,3942,3944],{},[52,3943,3705],{},": You can go, Lisa.",[14,3946,3947,3949],{},[52,3948,3747],{},": I just think content for me. And I mentioned this, I think to you, ladies, last time when we were chatting. Content is just something I've personally struggled with, like being on the agency side, like ever, just like finding the exact right voice that the client didn't feel the need that they had to revise. And I really feel like if a client's gonna hire an agency, for them to have to revise work, like, yes, it's a natural part of the process, but also like, it would be so nice for them to not have to do that. But it's such a personal thing, the voice and the tone of a brand and the content that you know, maybe like ad copy, really like kind of short-form content, I find like is an easier thing to partner with agencies on but longer-form pieces and pieces that really just like I don't know, exude the brand and the voice of the brand. I like having someone in-house that, and you know, I'm 10 years into this whole agency, and client-side thing, and I stick by that, you know, that's where I've found, and it doesn't have to be a team of content writers. It can be one really solid content writer, or even a really solid subject matter expert who maybe doesn't deem themselves a writer but can write and produce content for them the agency to make look good and polish it up and like as long as there's someone who can produce it long-form content in house. I think an agency is set up for better success.",[14,3951,3952,3954],{},[52,3953,3705],{},": I completely agree because content I feel it's the hardest one. Because you basically, when you have an agency do your content, you almost have to do that to go basically new employee. You have to go through everything with them, like what your brand voices are. And yes, you do that obviously with, like, other types of partnerships with agencies, but the content side is hard because you do have to hold one. You have to think about it too. If you work for an agency, that person is going to be writing for a lot of other industries. And so it's almost like a split personality in a sense, where you kind of have to really zone in on one and while you're writing. I feel if you have an internal, you can elevate your brand better, and you can move quicker. If you have switches or products, if you have really anything, having that solid one copywriter, or even if it's someone who's really good at like writing, like paid ads, kind of you see that in them, mold them into that copywriter content person, because then it can kind of go one-on-one with each other.",[14,3956,3957,3959],{},[52,3958,3726],{},": I'm gonna take the opposite stance in situations. I actually thought about this after our internal things. And I was like, \"Yes, that makes a lot of sense.\" Like, you need to be the brand. But I also thought like, you know, the professionalism, adaptability, and flexibility of a content writer from an agency is sometimes unparalleled. So in certain situations, if it's not too technical, if the brand is something that I can describe, and I don't have to take a lifetime to teach someone, and I could see some sample writings, then I would be okay with testing an agency partner to write my content, just because I know that grammatically it's going to be correct, and as I said, we've got samples. I know the voice has been properly absorbed and portrayed in writing, so I see the benefits of having them in the house. But I also see the benefits of working with an agency.",[14,3961,3962,3964],{},[52,3963,9],{},": I wonder.. Posing a question to y'all. I wonder if an agency makes sense for things that are not super deep technical and a bit more polished and have a high level, almost like product pages. It's probably kind of nice to bring someone in who doesn't speak company and can simplify and make it a bit more human, almost because I find, you know, we get into I worked for a CPG company, and they had an acronym for everything, they had their own language, it was a nightmare. So, you know, bringing in fresh eyes and somebody who can be like, \"I don't think people in the real world are going to really know what you're talking about.\" So it's probably the opportunity there. I'm not saying for everything, but I do think that a fresh perspective could be helpful.",[14,3966,3967,3969],{},[52,3968,3705],{},": Yeah, that's a really good point. I definitely spoke both sides of that coin.",[14,3971,3972,3974],{},[52,3973,9],{},": So yeah! I agree, though, Lisa if you're writing deep, technical, and audible content in-house. What else? Is there anything else that should be in-house, like an email website? Is it really just content, and you can outsource everything else or something else you feel like having in-house is unparalleled?",[14,3976,3977,3979],{},[52,3978,3705],{},": So I feel like product development, obviously, I think should be in-house. When it comes to websites, I'm kind of on the content side of that, too. Because without knowing where I'm at right now, I think it'd be difficult to be with an agency, just based on setting them up for success. It's like my mindset of it, but I've seen other agencies like they're killer design web agencies, and I think that's really for certain types of businesses. And a little thing back on what you were mentioning about having some content be like in-house or agency, I feel like those like fluffy blog posts that are like top five reasons why whatever, those could be definitely an agency, you know, and those could just be like, pumped out quickly. And that can help your SEO, and then you can just be more consistent with your writing and posting, but then you have those product updates, definitely, I think, should be in-house. And I mean, we're lucky enough that one of our developers is a really good writer, and he is a good writer in the sense of a people writer. So instead of writing it in the sense of his, like, very technical brain, he writes in that fun brand side. So I feel like that's an anomaly in the situation. But, it's real and he's been there, like forever, with product knowledge. And I think it's because of just the company in a sense like everybody had to kind of like dive in for a lot of things. But I think agency I mean, to be so hard, because I mean, right now I do everything and so I feel I would love like specific HubSpot developer, you know, to crank out some landing pages, email templates, things like that. And that's where I would definitely go the agency route. One because I love HubSpot. But sometimes, like people who don't know it, or who don't know how to develop it, it's different. It's different than WordPress, you know. It's just the coatings are a little different. So you have to have that specific knowledge and I think that's really for a lot of others like Martech Solutions. You do have to find those, like specific experts at it, and then find the expert at what you're looking for, for specific areas or like, channels.",[14,3981,3982,3984],{},[52,3983,3726],{},": Can I layer on to that?",[14,3986,3987,3989],{},[52,3988,9],{},": Sure!",[14,3991,3992,3994],{},[52,3993,3726],{},": That's a really good point. I'm thinking what needs to be housed versus what needs to be or could be an agency might be just like, Christina was alluding to, like \"Can we do it at the moment?\" or \"Do we need it being done?\" Like, when I want to just walk over and tap someone's shoulder, this is something I need to quickly pivot to. That's an in-house resource. That's what I need and what is the time constraints on it, right? Versus when I'm working with an agency, we can schedule things out. We have a pipeline of projects, we have deadlines, and timelines, and projects, and there's a map that they can follow. I would never expect my agency unless I was like the L'Oreal's of the world, I would never expect them to be available at a moment's notice. You have scheduled calls, and there might be an occasional emergency. But for the most part, I want to respect their boundaries, and they want to respect my internal resources. The boundaries are, you know, when they start their day when they end their day, you know, the scope of that job requirement that they were hired on for, or they're evolving to. So for me, it's going to be my individual organization. What do I need to be available to me at anytime? And what can I schedule out? I don't know. To me, that's what my thoughts are really.",[14,3996,3997,3999],{},[52,3998,3747],{},": It is not really, like, so unique to every organization, and that speaks to, I think, the leadership or, you know, the management and kind of their style of work. But then also, like, at least I'm thinking through my personal experience, like in a more startup world were like, kind of everything's an opportunity, and you're trying things and you're growing fast, like having someone that you can just tap on the shoulder and say, \"Let's do this\" feels really important versus when I've been with like bigger firms, there's not always such like a fastness to how the company operates. And you do have that luxury of planning and scheduling things out. And I think that's a really, really smart point. It's not necessarily about, like, what the function is. It's just also about your style of work and knows to be true about how your company wants to operate on a day-to-day basis. And I'm just like thinking through my past 10 years, and I'm like, \"Yeah, I think you just nailed it.\" Actually, that was totally spot on.",[14,4001,4002,4004],{},[52,4003,9],{},": That was awesome! We're wrapping up here. We got one minute left. In terms of the Great Resignation and looking for agency partners, has that changed your perspective at all? Are you leaning harder on agencies? Are you backing off and trying to hire in-house because it's so tricky? What sort of this last moment for you, given where we are and looking at the partnerships you have?",[14,4006,4007,4009],{},[52,4008,3705],{},": I mean, for us, like I said a little bit ago, right now we're not looking for really either. Maybe it's like a contractor that quickly needs to work with me on some things that I just need off my plate. But I really want to build a super solid foundation to then work with an agency, most probably like a PPC-based agency, because that's what I don't have time for. So that is what I know what type it should be. I want to set a foundation first, but I also want to set kind of give them like a playbook in a sense, like we say playbooks all the time internally, they are so many different things. But I want to give it to the agency, saying I also like kind of almost like this is where we were, so they can see what didn't work for us. And they can maybe see why, and they're like, \"Hey, this is not a...why it didn't work?\" But also, let's do this again because this is what you need to do the type of conversation. So for us, we're really looking at that foundational piece because I've been on offense that it was a lot to work with, like a certain brand, or vice versa, like super hard to work with an agency. So I want to lay that foundation down and give them a map for success. And at that point, I feel it'll probably be the end of this year. But again, years go super quickly. I'm excited for that because I love working with agencies, I'm that person who is excited on calls but also like super direct with what we need. So I'm pretty excited for that journey of us even building that foundation because I feel like it's going to humble us. And it's going to also figure out what we really need to like grow our business.",[14,4011,4012,4014],{},[52,4013,9],{},": Awesome. Hey, any last words as we close out here?",[14,4016,4017,4019],{},[52,4018,3726],{},": I just love this. Kerry, thank you for inviting us like the thought leadership that I hear and the great philosophical ideas and this conversation. The subject was on it. I'm passionate about it, and I'm so glad I was able to join and add my voice to it.",[14,4021,4022,4024],{},[52,4023,9],{},": Thank you all. It was awesome. I hope I certain gave me some ideas. I have a little list over here. Looking forward to tapping into and I hope our listeners were able to do the same thing. And yeah! Listeners, if you want to get in touch with Christina, Ruth or Lisa, their links are in the notes. Be sure to connect with them as you look to learn more about how you can better the relationship with your agencies when to bring them in, and how to make it all successful. It's this puzzle. So big, giant puzzle, and I appreciate you laying out some pieces for us.",[24,4026,3619],{"id":3618},[14,4028,4029],{},"Thank you again for joining us on this Tech Marketing Leader Roundtable. We'll be hosting this once a quarter. Actually, we're going to do it. We're going to do another one later this quarter, and Mike Krass will be hosting it. So stay tuned on that. That's exciting. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss out. Thank you again.",[14,4031,4032],{},"This roundtable was brought to you by MKG Marketing - the digital marketing agency that helps you get found via transparent, measurable digital marketing. It’s hosted by me, Kerry Guard - CEO and co-founder of MKG Music, mix, and mastering done by Austin Ellis.",[14,4034,4035,4036,4040],{},"If you’d like to be a guest, please email me at ",[206,4037,4039],{"href":4038},"mailto:kerry@mkg.marketing","kerry@mkg.marketing"," to apply.",[14,4042,4043],{},"Thank you all again.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4045},[4046,4047,4048],{"id":3259,"depth":297,"text":3260},{"id":3272,"depth":297,"text":3273},{"id":3618,"depth":291,"text":3619},"2022-02-09T16:30Z","As the Great Resignation continues to take effect, agencies can be a great support. Why, when, and how do you set them up for success and how do they ensure their own success?","https:\u002F\u002Fimages.pexels.com\u002Fphotos\u002F33041\u002Fantelope-canyon-lower-canyon-arizona.jpg?auto=compress&cs=tinysrgb&w=1260&h=750&dpr=1",{},"\u002Fevents\u002Fgreat-resignation",{"title":3677,"description":4050},[4056,4061,4066],{"name":3726,"title":4057,"company":4058,"img":4059,"url":4060},"Manager, Enterprise Customer Success Team","BrightEdge","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Fruth-wisniewski.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fruthwisniewski\u002F",{"name":3705,"title":4062,"company":4063,"img":4064,"url":4065},"Vice President Marketing","ResellerRatings","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Fchristina-kay.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fchristinakay\u002F",{"name":3747,"title":3668,"company":4067,"img":4068,"url":4069},"Acqueon","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Flisa-mcdermott.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Flisa-mcdermott-marketing-leader\u002F-valler-4b9a4523\u002F","events\u002Fgreat-resignation","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fvideo\u002Fevent\u002Furn:li:ugcPost:6892203168730873856","apAn9bDlyz2BT_mI4yw160yncnAEbvg7XzRtAhGD7kg",{"id":4074,"title":4075,"body":4076,"date":4513,"description":4514,"extension":318,"img":4515,"meta":4516,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":4517,"seo":4518,"speakers":4519,"stem":4539,"updated":7,"watchOnDemand":4540,"__hash__":4541},"events\u002Fevents\u002Fdemand-gen-leap.md","The Demand Generation Leap",{"type":11,"value":4077,"toc":4508},[4078,4080,4083,4085,4090,4093,4099,4104,4110,4115,4121,4127,4133,4138,4143,4148,4153,4158,4163,4168,4173,4178,4183,4188,4193,4198,4203,4208,4213,4218,4223,4228,4231,4236,4241,4244,4249,4254,4259,4264,4269,4274,4279,4284,4287,4292,4295,4300,4305,4310,4315,4320,4323,4326,4331,4336,4341,4346,4351,4356,4361,4366,4371,4376,4381,4386,4391,4396,4401,4406,4411,4414,4419,4424,4429,4434,4439,4444,4449,4454,4459,4464,4469,4474,4479,4484,4489,4494,4496,4499,4502],[81,4079,3260],{"id":3259},[14,4081,4082],{},"Hello, I'm Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing. And welcome to this live roundtable where I'm going to discuss with four, tech marketing leaders, Demand Gen Marketing as it relates to B2B technology. Between working closely with our clients, and doing our podcast, Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders, and just off the cuff conversations I've been having, there seems to be this shift in the universe, away from leads, leads, leads, leads, leads to a more holistic approach, which we'll get into today.",[81,4084,3273],{"id":3272},[14,4086,4087,4089],{},[52,4088,9],{},": Before I launch into it, a little bit of housekeeping because I believe everything is a two way street. So it's our promise to you as our listeners of how we're going to show up today and how we hope that you'll engage with us. So we promise to keep this discussion at hand. It's why we're here to talk about marketing. And we are going to stick to that topic, in the most authentic, honest way possible. It's not about selling, it's not about our companies. It's about demand gen marketing, and how it relates to what these four experts have been doing and how you can learn from them.",[14,4091,4092],{},"For those listening, please engage in the comments. We have our very own AnDrae Jones over there to hang out with y'all. And we look forward to hearing your comments and most importantly, your questions at the end. We're going to leave time to hear from you. And hopefully swing some answers your way and for whatever we don't get to we'll be sure to follow up. So let's get into it. You're ready?",[14,4094,4095,4098],{},[52,4096,4097],{},"Guests",": Yeah. All ready.",[14,4100,4101,4103],{},[52,4102,9],{},": All right. Let's do it. So we're gonna do introductions first. And if you could say your name, your title, and what Demand Gen marketing means to you. And I will start with Amber.",[14,4105,4106,4109],{},[52,4107,4108],{},"Amber Anderson",": Sure. My name is Amber Anderson. I'm the Founder and Head of Strategy at Tote + Pears, which is a woman plus insights and branding agency. Demand Gen to me is about giving your customers a reason to pay attention to you and staying connected with them throughout that process.",[14,4111,4112,4114],{},[52,4113,9],{},": We'll head over to Maurina.",[14,4116,4117,4120],{},[52,4118,4119],{},"Maurina Venturelli",": Yeah, thanks. My name is Maurina Venturelli, I am the VP of Marketing at primer.ai. Demand Gen to me is telling beautiful stories with a specific point of view.",[14,4122,4123,4126],{},[52,4124,4125],{},"Tal Valler",": So, hi. Great to be here, Kerry. My name is Tal Valler, I'm the CMO at Zoovu. We are a conversational AI platform for digital commerce. And demand generation for me is essentially people don't buy products, they buy solutions to their needs. So demand generation is getting people to understand that their needs align with your products and your values and get them to want to talk to you.",[14,4128,4129,4132],{},[52,4130,4131],{},"Adam Holmgren",": Yeah, Adam Holmgren. And I'm the Head of Demand Gen at GetAccept that we are our sales enablement solution. So demand gen for me is mainly I would say a shift of focus. So I'll shift the focus to value first. And of course, revenue first. Yeah.",[14,4134,4135,4137],{},[52,4136,9],{},": Great. To kick off our conversation in the way that you all have defined demand generation and what it means to you. Did anybody find that? You know, agree, disagree? Want to lean into anything that anybody said? Start with you, Maurina, do you have anything to add?",[14,4139,4140,4142],{},[52,4141,4119],{},": Yeah, I like what Amber said about people interested. I think, you know, there's a psychology behind marketing that I think a lot of people forget, right, like, what does it take to get people to be interested in pique their interest and learn more about your company? And it's, I think it's also what, you know, Tal and Adam talked about as well. It is about value and how do you convey that value in a very interesting, maybe provocative way to get folks to to really consume what you want them to consume?",[14,4144,4145,4147],{},[52,4146,4131],{},": Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. And I just wanted to touch upon, you know, the shift. Now we want to give value to our customers. I mean, maybe potential customers. That has really always been the case, but I think we are now more willing to give value without asking anything in return. That has been the case in marketing for many years that we would demand something to give. And I think that is the big shift that is happening now. Which is great. I love, I also want to be able to go into, you know, and read a blog post without giving away my information, right? Or an e book or whatever.",[14,4149,4150,4152],{},[52,4151,4108],{},": Yeah, sure. So what I would say is, I think what's really interesting is when we look at the bigger companies and the bigger brands that have been successful, the Coca Cola, the Nikes, etc, they've been giving away things for free for a really long time, right? They've been selling people on value and community and love. It's the smaller companies that have been really honing in, on trying to take from their customers before they give. And so I think that shift is really not necessarily something that's happened in marketing, it's just something that's happening downstream versus recognizing that, you know, really, the bigger brands have always known that in order to keep a community you needed to give them something that they wanted to hold on to. So that would probably be like my only changes, I think that this is just something that's coming downstream to us a smaller company, and hopefully, it's something that sticks because obviously, it works.",[14,4154,4155,4157],{},[52,4156,4125],{},": Yeah, just going off on what Amber mentioned is, I think, in smaller SaaS companies, because we're so focused on proving our value, because we're so obsessed with trying to create immediate returns on marketing investment. That was about me, me me, like, how can I get the lead? How can I get that leads to give me their contact details? How can I get them? And once we get that contact details, you know, which you can pretty much get anywhere these days, you don't really need to do demand generation just to get the lead and get contact details, then it's all about like sending them, sending them, sending them. And I think the shift in marketing, the shift in demand generation in general has been that it's not about just getting the lead, it's about getting people to talk about you, to talk about their challenges, to talk about these challenges in your prism of thought and with your idea of what the solution could look like or how or what would be the path to a solution. And then when you do that, you're creating demand essentially to your product without even mentioning your product or talking about your platform, right? And it's about continuously giving value. So that value doesn't necessarily have to be gifts or events or blog posts, it can be anything showing - so long that it actually delivers value and it's not just, you know, your musings about your product and about your customer.",[14,4159,4160,4162],{},[52,4161,4131],{},": Yeah, yeah, I really like what Amber said, I agree and I think maybe shift was the wrong word. We are getting more up to speed with what's already happening. But I do think there's a difference between B2B and B2C companies. I think B2C companies have been doing this this radius providing value. And now we, at B2C, are getting there, I think, a bit more. I think many of the baby B2B companies are still not really there to be honest.",[14,4164,4165,4167],{},[52,4166,4119],{},": Yeah, I like what you, I mean, you know, I'm always interested in this topic of B2B and B2C. To me, there's no difference. And I don't know where that mentality started. There is a big difference in how we communicate and go to market. I mean, at the end of the day, we are people selling to people. I'm sure there's nuances but you know, when I started in marketing, there was just this concept of these two things and I was like, why is this different? To me, it is literally the same, right? And I think to your point Adam, we are catching up, we're seeing that. I think what B2B, and kind of what Tal said, with B2B, we're so pressured to provide value and to get that email and track it and ROI that we completely miss that there's a psychology, there is a way to tap into people's feelings and emotions that you and I just - like, its people to people. That's the marketing we're doing.",[14,4169,4170,4172],{},[52,4171,4108],{},": Yeah, I agree. I agree, 100%.",[14,4174,4175,4177],{},[52,4176,4119],{},": When are we gonna disagree? Let's get something we can disagree on.",[14,4179,4180,4182],{},[52,4181,4108],{},": We're just getting warmed up.",[14,4184,4185,4187],{},[52,4186,4125],{},": I think the difference that I see between B2B and B2C a lot of the time is that B2C is marketing to the masses, right? So you try to create a very defined group of people based on some criteria and then create a messaging that would be shallow enough to reach as many of them. Shallow-ish enough as possible, and then get a reaction and get like some share of mine. With B2B today, a lot of companies, like, it's not news, right? It's been around for a while now. But there's more and more focus in account-based marketing and account-based focus, where you can share the message too much too wide with your messaging, crafting it towards specific accounts, towards specific buyers within these accounts, towards the needs of that account. And that becomes a big challenge for, and a big difference. Difference point between B2B and B2C that's hyper focus. We're still working personas, we're still people to people, but we're focused on a group of people versus a group of 10,000.",[14,4189,4190,4192],{},[52,4191,4131],{},": I can just add to that, as well. What I really think we are starting to do great also in B2B now is that we are starting to build really great brands. And that is, we can maybe get into that later as well. But I think that is really key for us building the demand that we need. And I think that is where we have been lacking greatly in the past. Now we can look at these great B2B brands, like Gong, and we look at Drift and all of those that are not only recognizable in the world of business, but in the greater spectrum. And I think that's a really great thing.",[14,4194,4195,4197],{},[52,4196,4108],{},": You know, Maurina had brought up a point before about how do you create really good brands? And so Maurina, I certainly want to have you have an opportunity to dive into that. But I think one of the things that you had said earlier, is that the way that you connect with people is you realize that they are people, whether it's B2B or B2C, the brand is able to identify who it is that we're talking to. And then that's what attracts them. And whether it's 10 people or it's 100 people, or it's 5 million people, it's being able to be so niche and understanding the needs of those individuals that can create messaging around it. So you know, I agree with Maurina, that there's this dialogue about B2B, B2C, and I've never subscribed to that, and our branding agency, we don't subscribe to that either. Because at the end of the day, your goal is to connect with people, they may be at home, they may be at work, the best marketing is where you connect with them in multiple places. And so if we can think about it in a way that we're not pigeonholing them to only connecting in their office, when they're thinking about that, but really trying to connect with them, regardless of where they are in their space, then we can get more sale, right like with the goal was to kind of get in front of them understand their needs, and stay connected with them throughout their journey, not our journey, but their journey. And people have unique journeys all over the place. So, you know, Maurina, I really appreciate you always sharing your thoughts there. And wanting to make sure I could chime in on the branding side of why the brand I think can kind of die, at least from the way that we handle things. That conversation.",[14,4199,4200,4202],{},[52,4201,4119],{},": Yeah, you mentioned connection. That is the number one thing, right, whether you connect with them through something, you know, fun and interesting that is semi relevant to your product. For instance, at primer, we do natural language processing, which can be very intimidating. We did this blog post about Harry Potter and how we use our technology to pull out interesting, you know, how many times did Harry Potter in this episode, or in this book, you know, use this name, things like that. And you can use those to connect and then obviously drive value and product specific types of things. I mean, I think, you know, and Tal mentioned this, right, we're all on the hook for revenue, right? In all of my jobs of demand gen, it was, you pay $1 here, what are we giving back to the company? So I would love to hear people's perspective on how you take that sort of feeling of connection, right? You send something interesting, but then actually drive value and provide, you know, actual ROI because they're kind of disjointed. You think of connection as the brand or something else where it really is all encompassing with demand gen. I don't know if that question was articulated well, but if somebody can understand it.",[14,4204,4205,4207],{},[52,4206,4125],{},": It's a topic that I actually love talking about, right, because not everything in marketing is measurable. Yes, we are on the hook to measure. And we know as marketers that a lot of the activities that are the top value creators are not measurable, right? Like a brand, a new brand is not measurable, you can attribute it to revenue or stuff like that trade show that costs you a lot to have, like a huge within the speaking slot. But no, not necessarily a lot of opportunities came out from the closure in 12 months, but everybody saw you and everybody will see you in the next show and knows that you're there. So a lot of things are not measurable. I think the trick that's worked for me is trying to balance out paying the piper and trying to balance out some activities that, you know you can check, you know you can measure. I always tried to bring the SDR team or EDR team under marketing as part of my information marketing so that I can have some channels or some activities that immediately show measurable value. PPC, I always have the argument with my superiors when budgeting about the fact that it's a worthwhile activity, even if it's not necessarily worthwhile, you're at least taking demand, you're picking existing demand that immediately translates into the mind. So a lot of these, there are these types of marketing activities that deliver value and need a kind of budget, a big chunk of your money and time towards these activities. So you can get the additional time and budget to do stuff that isn't measurable, or isn't measurable, at least in the short term for revenue. And even there, you know, there are ways to measure it in the long run. So you measure, to me, you reach, you know, engagement and looking for the target audience with your posts or with your brand activities or whatnot. And then hopefully you can show later down the line that you've gotten more organic demo requests, more people say that they've seen in places right when they're having sales conversations. And when you can say yes, that you've done something good.",[14,4209,4210,4212],{},[52,4211,4131],{},": Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. And I totally agree, I think we are coming from lead gen, where we are obsessed with being data driven. And we are now allowing ourselves to be born more by gut feel sometimes. And I think for me, to really have, I need the executive team in the company I work for to have that trust in me. I think the times I have failed, not being able to really grow the demand or whatever it is when the executive and I haven't been in the same place. So I think that's a huge thing. And the reason why I am where I am today, I would say we are probably putting 50% of our spend on activities that are not really measurable. And you need to have that trust, I guess, is my point.",[14,4214,4215,4217],{},[52,4216,9],{},": That's a really good point. Because when we talk about value and measurement, you know, and we talk about lead gen, right? Lead Gen sort of always been the thing that we've done in B2B. And now it's shifting, so in that shift of demand gen, where does lead gen come in? Or does it not anymore? I mean, you're talking about giving value? Are you asking for anything in return?",[14,4219,4220,4222],{},[52,4221,4108],{},": I mean, I'm happy to give some insights if you'd like. And I think what's really important is I don't think it goes away, I think we're still trying to get information and trying to service the client. So we need to be able to capture information from the lead. I think it just moves down the funnel a bit where we're not doing that as the first interaction but actually being polite. Okay, like, \"hello, how are you?\" before I take your email address. But I am gonna eventually get your email address so that I can service you better, right? It's just all in the language and the way that we approach people, not as if we're not doing it in person, we're just doing it in a different way. So yeah, I don't think it goes away. I think it just moves down.",[14,4224,4225,4227],{},[52,4226,4125],{},": I think two things. One is, I don't think anybody cares about leads anymore, like salespeople will care about where my leads are, your CEO will care about having a lead flow. But eventually, like, I see the company I'm in now and both of my previous companies, they care about leads so long as none are coming in. But assuming that they're coming in, they start caring and nagging you much more about opportunities and qualified opportunities and further down the funnel than the leads. Right? So maybe the conversation is shifted into defining leads as opportunities or sales qualified opportunities, versus just leads, which makes our life more difficult at least though more interesting as well.",[14,4229,4230],{},"And the second thing I wanted to say is because we're so geared toward leads, it was generating email addresses, it starts all sorts of stupid and bad marketing behavior that we kind of all need to do to cleanse ourselves, right? Gating, not quality assets that basically just annoy people because they've given you their email thinking that they're going to get something and they get your muses and ideas about why your product is great or not something that they can actually do something with, or gating good mixing this whole sort of company that we're working now. Something I'm currently trying to shift away from. Gating case studies, gaiting like the process of people validating that your product is good, just so you can say as a marketer, you're, I brought this lead? Versus here, I brought this piece of business or supported bringing this piece of business?",[14,4232,4233,4235],{},[52,4234,4131],{},": Yeah, yeah, I wanted to touch upon what Maurina actually also touched upon, which is a little bit around the definition of a lead. And in terms of your, at what stage your company or I talked to, I don't remember who it was at HubSpot a few weeks ago. And they were talking about instead, okay, they would never reach out to a prospect that did not request a demo, for example, and HubSpot are generating 1000s of leads a month, you know, they have that it's easier for them, I believe it's easier for larger company to go full out demand gen. And only reach out for the high intent one, I think it's easier when you are a startup or scale up. When you have the pressure from the sales team and from the CEO. It's easy to land in what Tal talked about, you know, just getting leads in, it doesn't matter. And that's where we, as marketers, of course have to stay strong. And so I think the most important thing here is actually how we, at the company, define what is the lead? What is an MQL? How do we define that? Or do we even use that?",[14,4237,4238,4240],{},[52,4239,4119],{},": I think that's, I mean, it's so interesting, right? In the marketing industry as a whole, there is no set definition of what those things are. Even, you know, even as you talked about the word lead, Tal, right? To me, a lead is any email in the database, right? Like the qualifiers on top of it, and engagement and all of those different metrics. So I think, I don't know that anybody can set forth a real definition. I mean, maybe. You know, at Primer, the SDRs do roll up under marketing, which I think is, I don't know, to your point, Tal, it is the one it is a touch point of here is actual like, human to human contact, they're getting meetings, they're talking to these people, as opposed to this ambiguous, say, they clicked the link in an email. And I think that flow is really important. So I think that the comment, you know, what we look at is three milestones, right? An MQL, sales qualified lead, which is when a meeting is set, sales qualified opportunity. So SDRs, at Primer, there's a stage zero, where they are in charge of getting information around why them, why now, and why Primer. So we do go after, learn about the person first, before we even, you know, talk about Primer, and there's a set of questions like, you know, what are you measured on? It's really all about them. And I'm very particular about SDRs. You don't mention our technology, until you have these things answered. And then there's a space between that meeting set to when we pass a qualified opportunity on to the salespeople, and we record it in Salesforce, and so on.",[14,4242,4243],{},"So that's kind of the practical part. There's this other part that I'm hearing around demand gen where we're kind of going back to superiors trust us, we need to build connection first. We're not going to get their unborn baby's child's name at the first, you know, the first get go, we need to build trust, we need to build connection, we need to be smart about the things that we gate. And maybe we're going and we are going to give stuff away for free. And it is a lagging effect, right? Because on the other end, we have sales saying I don't have enough opportunities. So it is a balancing act of, and I think Tal mentioned this, what are the things that are going to produce opportunities kind of quickly? And then how do we pull people along, because it is a challenge. I can't go to my CMO and say, you know, give me four months while I build connections with people. So you know, we're in this kind of interesting space of, we want to be more empathetic and we want to be more human and we need to produce revenue.",[14,4245,4246,4248],{},[52,4247,4108],{},": Do we really gate things anymore?",[14,4250,4251,4253],{},[52,4252,4131],{},": Yeah, the only thing we gate now is our premium and our demo requests. We have un-gated everything else. Since we, I really believe that people will come back to us if they find value from from things. I probably can prove that that is what's happening. But I really, it feels good in my stomach when we do that so we will continue doing that. And I think it was interesting. You mentioned your KPIs that you use and I just wanted to add something that we also measure which is, which is pipeline created, which I think it's actually a great measurement to use to get also the sales organization to have a good understanding. I think it's hard sometimes for them to really understand MQL to SQL there. And that's maybe the biggest issue of it. Nothing pipeline is something that can sometimes get past that a bit. But yeah, it would be fun to hear everyone at once else talk for un-gating. As I feel very strongly about that.",[14,4255,4256,4258],{},[52,4257,4119],{},": Well, we asked for social security numbers. So -",[14,4260,4261,4263],{},[52,4262,4131],{},": Yeah, take a picture of your license.",[14,4265,4266,4268],{},[52,4267,4125],{},": I love to say that we're not gating anything, and I'm slowly trying to move things away from gating, especially assets that I don't think are premium. So unless we're selling, we're sharing the secrets of doing X, then I don't see or like a Gartner report that costs us a ton of money to syndicate in this very coveted I don't think there's a lot of value in gating. In an ideal situation, I do. And what I've done for gating is use gating as an intent qualification, right? So I would take a nice blog post that we have or a nice webinar or session that we have. And then on the side of it, or somewhere down like 1\u002F3 of the way down would have a pop up or a call to action for a gated acid supplement or gifts. The deeper information about the topic of the subject, in that way, basically, it shows me this person is really interested versus just like, found this on Google.",[14,4270,4271,4273],{},[52,4272,9],{},": Amber, do you have any thoughts around getting content? And what content do you gate versus not?",[14,4275,4276,4278],{},[52,4277,4108],{},": Yeah. So I mean, I'm in an agency. So we work with several clients. I think the answer is case by case. As you all have said, there's different things for different businesses that have different content. So I think it just depends on what the content is, and what it is that the customer needs, and what's the right appropriate measure and what you handed out to them. So I don't have a blanket statement on what to do, because I do think it's a case by case basis.",[14,4280,4281,4283],{},[52,4282,9],{},": Also, in terms of case by case basis, I think you all have different approaches to how you've built your teams as well. And I think this is a really important topic, as you know, companies start to move away from lead gen, and move into demand gen, and start thinking about who they need on their team to actually execute this because it's so different, and more holistic.",[14,4285,4286],{},"So Maurina, let's kick off with you. How is your team structured and who are your players so to speak?",[14,4288,4289,4291],{},[52,4290,4119],{},": Yeah, that's a great question. So I, SDRs. So I have global SDRs and then an SDR lead there, which we're building out as well. I am marketing operations sort of typical. So everything systems are really closely aligned with sales operations. As we look at, you know, global reporting and tracking and all of those things in our marketing automation and CRM systems. Have a content strategist, which is something when I moved into primary I was very, very, very passionate about content. And I actually don't look at it as content I look at it as offers, what are we giving to, what are we offering to people, right? Is it a PDF? Is it a blog? I like people to think outside of this, like, let's give them a two pager like, are we going to give them a live event? Are we going to give them an experience on a website? Are we going to give them, you know, are they going to fill something in, and we're going to give them an asset. So we have this sort of offer\u002Fcontent strategy team that falls under me, and they're kind of a dotted mind to sort of thought leadership, Product Marketing and demand gen, because I do think those different categories of content are different. And at my last job, I often said to my CMO, you know, there's this Venn diagram, like product marketing isn't necessarily always demand and marketing. You know, it actually, to me, at least at this stage, Primer is, it's more thought leadership. People are interested in where you are in the industry, they're interested about learning, you know, about things. Our CEO, he spoke at a TED talk, and he has a super interesting just, you know, kind of where this natural language process is going. And they just, they want to know that. And to me, that creates interest, thus, will create demand later. And so we have these, that whole content strategy, and what are we going to offer? And what are we going to give our audiences kind of under Demand Gen.",[14,4293,4294],{},"So summarizing, SDRs, marketing ops, content\u002Foffers, and then we do have kind of an execution arm campaigns person that brings it all together and says, Okay, where are we going to put all of this information? How are we going to track it? What are we going to gate? What are we not going to gate? You know, and then kind of the website falls into that.",[14,4296,4297,4299],{},[52,4298,4131],{},": Yeah, I think our team is actually predefined that we have been scaling so fast so it's changing all the time. In two years now we have gone from three people in marketing to almost 30. Now, so it's, we are still setting the structure so to speak. But yeah, so I'm leading the demand gen team. So I thought I could dig into a little bit what that actually entails in our team. But then similar to Maurina, we have a content team, we have a brand team, and we actually have our product marketing as its own team, as I agree with you completely, that it's very much more of a team that is between everyone to be honest, and maybe the most important role, to be honest. Yeah, and the demand, and we also have marketing ops, of course. And the demand team, I would say, we have structured it very much based on both competence, but also region. So we have different regional demand managers, that the plants in the entire region and the demand efforts in that region. But then we have certain experts in different fields, like Field Marketing, paid social, paid search, and so on. We are doing a little bit of everything, I think. And it's also the case, we have a brand team, for example, and the content team. But I would say that that ties very much into what we do in demand gen. So everything is together, of course.",[14,4301,4302,4304],{},[52,4303,9],{},": Tal, how is your team structured?",[14,4306,4307,4309],{},[52,4308,4125],{},": So first thing I joined Zoovu for less than three months ago, and I'm building the marketing team right now. So if anybody has good ideas, and recommend people for recruiting and hiring for almost all marketing roles, and it's a crazy market, so it's really, really difficult to find good people. And by the time I get to interview them, they've already gotten a job somewhere else. But my walls aside, the way that ideal teams will be structured, and the way you were kind of more or less structured now is, I have a content communications lead, who was in charge of coming up with great stories that we can later on, create PRs around and create activities around that will support demand generation. Then there's a design team, design person right now. Not so much team, will support common communications, the website, presentations, or gated content, assets and everything else. We have regional demand generation managers, so they are in charge of executing campaigns and programs for each one of the regions and translating and localizing them, the general ones into each region. And focus basically are creating pipeline for their region for their community CMOs or for the area that they work in. And then we have product marketing, which is a completely different beast right? Focused on creating collateral, Little bit of analyst relations, even though that doesn't necessarily always sit under the remit of product market being working on pricing and collateral development, it will support the sales team case studies. Also important, I think, Maurina, we had that argument, when we had the prep call, these are all dedicated people in the organization. But they're all working together, right. So the content and communication doesn't create content that will just sit there either for the sake of content communications, and they will align with me with the demand generation team to make sure that the content is part of a campaign that is used and is ideated, working with the sales team and with the other teams in the organization. Same for product marketing, right? They don't live in a silo, they need to work with the product team, with the sales team, and with content in order to generate collateral. And all of that feeds, again, demand generation.",[14,4311,4312,4314],{},[52,4313,9],{},": And how does, and I think this is where Amber can really pipe in because I love what you're saying, Tal, about all these people talking together. And it sounds like a brand, would be a really great thing to sort of hold all that together. Amber, what are your thoughts in terms of how the brand fits into the team structure and the importance of it?",[14,4316,4317,4319],{},[52,4318,4108],{},": Sure. I think I would probably say, we are Demand Gen. That's what we do as a branding agency. We're full service at Tote and Pear. So the way that we're structured is, we work in pods, so everybody has their expertise. But we come together to service on account. And what value that brings is that I think it gives you the opportunity to make sure that the brand is being addressed in every aspect of the touchpoint that you have with your customer. So whether that's stepping in and having the brand strategist identify the market, what are the things about the audience that's going on? What do we need to do to make sure that we're standing out, that's their role. Then we have content, which is saying what value do we provide? How do we provide it, creating the actual content that goes to meet that need. Then you have the creative, for us, which is how do we do that visually? How do we make sure that we continue to have a visual saying sometimes content isn't words, sometimes content is a video or it's a photograph or it's your visuals that go along with it. So working hand in hand with the strategist and the content strategist, to be able to create that. And then on the marketing side, it's where we place it once we're there, and you have a variety of different people that are going to step in to be able to make sure that we're placing it in the right place at the right time when we need to be placing it.",[14,4321,4322],{},"So for us, it's about having different people so that they have a leader that can help them with their discipline. But when we execute, we execute as a pod, we execute as a collective group that sees the entire brand, just from their viewpoint. But we know that holistically, we've met every need that we needed to make sure that the brand was seen and continues to be seen as it's supposed to be based off of the strategy.",[14,4324,4325],{},"So that's the way that we operate. And I think that's where we were kind of getting into the back and forth about how you actually execute on that, especially in a complicated organization. And my combat was, I actually come from technology. So my background was building products. And we were able to do it in a technology capacity, most teams are operating in some type of an Agile, Scrum or a team capacity, where they're building huge complex systems with multiple disciplines of people. And I think in the marketing side is something that we need to be able to do as well because the reality is, it is all coming together. And being able to do that where you have people working side by side helps just ensure that you're getting the output that you're looking for. So that was the viewpoint that I had and the contribution I had to the conversation.",[14,4327,4328,4330],{},[52,4329,4119],{},": Yeah, I love the idea of a pod. And my sort of idea of executing with marketing, it has that same pot idea where you have kind of a marketing leader, you know, a writer, product marketing person, you know, and analytics kind of goes throughout, but it's funnel based. So when you have like, depending on your definitions, right, if you have a sales, sort of, they're in a sales opportunity and they're in inactive sales sort of cycle, you have a team of people that address those needs, then you have a team of people that is kind of in that mid funnel, right, addressing SDRs, how are you helping SDRs get the qualification. This is kind of more Primer specific, but you have it, you know, you have an execution arm, you know, you have ads and emails and live events that are just for that part of the funnel. And then obviously the top because it helps in I think content creation, you have kind of all the necessary things, you have the leader, the writer, the builder, that person that executes and then marketing kind of ops and reporting kind of does it for all those different pods.",[14,4332,4333,4335],{},[52,4334,4108],{},": So if I could ask the follow up question, Maurina, how do you make sure you have that consistency through the funnel? So do you, for example, in technology, we have a product manager, right that says I own the product. At the end of the day, regardless of where the product is, it comes together. And for us, we always have our brand strategist, is that person that owns that relationship. I think in companies, that's the piece that needs to be connected, even if they're in this part of the funnel, who makes sure that they get to the end, who owns that whole thing?",[14,4337,4338,4340],{},[52,4339,4119],{},": So we have a head, like a Senior Director of Content Strategy that sits under me and it all rolls through her to make sure it is consistent, because you're right, you get people to try with brand guidelines. But you know, you do need that person who has the last eyeballs to make sure everything's, and she's aligned with product marketing, she's aligned with Thought Leadership, our CEO just on how we talk about the company. And that's how we do it. It kind of rolls up.",[14,4342,4343,4345],{},[52,4344,9],{},": Tal mentioned the struggle for hiring. I think we can all lean into that real hard right now. I have a few questions about that. One is, and I think this is where we're gonna wrap our conversation and head over to the comments in a second. But one question is, when you're scaling, like Tal is, who's the first hire? I mean, who should Tal hire first? What's important there?",[14,4347,4348,4350],{},[52,4349,4125],{},": I know, I'm trying to hire -",[14,4352,4353,4355],{},[52,4354,4131],{},": Anyone at this point.",[14,4357,4358,4360],{},[52,4359,4125],{},": I've got a lot. Yeah, if you're going into Zoovu's website career section, you'll see, and everybody listening, by the way, I encourage you to do so. You'll see that there's a lot of open roles, some of which I haven't gotten to post yet, because otherwise, I won't be able to sleep from interviewing and posting roles all the time. But the first hire, we actually already have somebody in this position, but I need to strengthen the team around that, because we're going into a lot of different markets, is for me, content, right? Content is the fuel for demand generation. Even if your work, even if demand generation to you is only SDRs and BDR doing outreach, you still need content, because otherwise all they're doing is telling people come to my meeting, come to my meeting. And you want to deliver value, and you want to tell stories, and you want to get an audience. Having somebody that knows how to do this, knows how to do research, knows how to listen to the market, and find out what people in our buyer persona and in our ICP are looking for, or looking at, or reading interested that and, and spinning the story so that we deliver a value and our own perspective on it. It's the first thing that you need to do. Followed by the marketing ops, to distribute that stuff.",[14,4362,4363,4365],{},[52,4364,4119],{},": That's so funny, Tal, that's what I was thinking. And I think it depends on the leader's strength. But I would, it's a toss up for me between content and marketing ops. I think marketing ops goes, it might be becoming more valuable now. But for a while it was totally under the radar. And what was happening is the startups were like, holy crap, we're a year and a half in and we don't have any tracking and then they try to kind of retroactively build some tracking system. So it's a 50\u002F50 for me, marketing ops and content.",[14,4367,4368,4370],{},[52,4369,4125],{},": Maybe it's easy for me because like, I have some of my chops in marketing operations as well.",[14,4372,4373,4375],{},[52,4374,4119],{},": I just didn't want to do it anymore. Unlike -",[14,4377,4378,4380],{},[52,4379,4131],{},": But I think it's pretty spot on about what you said Maurina, I think it so much depends on what your own strength is. Since we're all kind of obsessed demand generators, maybe that wouldn't be the first hire, right?",[14,4382,4383,4385],{},[52,4384,9],{},": Last question for y'all in terms of hiring, what are some tips and tricks you're using right now to find talent other than roundtables?",[14,4387,4388,4390],{},[52,4389,4125],{},": I'm all ears.",[14,4392,4393,4395],{},[52,4394,4108],{},": Well, I mean, I can chime in here. I think one of the things that goes back to what we talked about with the brand leading earlier, that people are people and you want to get people to work for you, and you need to give them some value as to why I would come to work for you. So this is the reason why being able to focus on your brand, do demand gen thinking not just in terms of having a customer come on board, but the brand is also being witnessed by potential employers. This is a key thing, I think in B2B, why it's so important for us to focus on this area. So we're now, to give you some numbers because this is an area we've been spending a lot of time, I think in September, we had in the United States, 10 million open jobs, and 3 million plus people quit their jobs voluntarily because they don't want a workplace that they don't feel like they're having values. So you have to think about the work you're doing in terms of what am I giving to my employees or potential employees? What is the culture like here? Is it something that people are going to work on? And that's a connection that you do, just like you do with your customers, you do the same thing for your employees. So I would argue, hands down, the brand is valuable in all touch points in the business. And probably with some, you know, nudging on the brand side, you'll start to see an increase in people finding you, right, which is what we want.",[14,4397,4398,4400],{},[52,4399,4131],{},": Yeah, I love that, and I can add to that. I completely agree with you. And as you said, before, that people buy from people, I also think that people, you know, they get hired by people. But I think what has really worked well for me is to build my own personal brand. And that has made a lot of people, you know, connect to work. Yeah, work with me more as a person instead of the company. And that is also, I guess, a weigh in, because I represent my company every day, right, so I think that is also important. We people hire people as well. And I think that's at least one of my main things, when I enter a new company, is to feel that trust with my manager. It doesn't matter what company it is if I don't feel that. I think that's the key, 100%.",[14,4402,4403,4405],{},[52,4404,4119],{},": We give away free pups. Not true, not true. But I felt he needed to make an appearance. This is not a, it's not a live event without a puppy or a baby or a cat.",[14,4407,4408,4410],{},[52,4409,9],{},": When we're all working from home these days, that is so true. Andre, what questions do we have?",[14,4412,4413],{},"Okay, so we got, if you're ungating everything, how do you measure success?",[14,4415,4416,4418],{},[52,4417,4119],{},": I'll quickly, I'm certainly not suggesting ungating everything. I would say if it was a pie chart, I would gate maybe 10%. And I think what Adam is doing in terms of a free, freemium trial, you know, demo requests, contact us, basically those. But yeah, if I had a, it's probably 10% or less, is what I would gate.",[14,4420,4421,4423],{},[52,4422,4131],{},": Yeah, I think we're back here with measuring success. I think it's still the key to have that trust with the executives, even if you have a low mum, that the revenue will come if you're doing the right things. So yeah, I think you shouldn't have to prove each month that you are, yeah, that you're doing it.",[14,4425,4426,4428],{},[52,4427,4125],{},": So first, like, I don't ungate everything, but I do gate occasionally. I'm trying to wean myself off of gating. But how do you measure success? So two things that have always worked for me. One is to have a little field in your forums that asks, How did you find us? In your demo request forms, ask How did you find us and train your SDRs to ask people how they define us. And it's qualitative, not quantitative information, you can make it quantitative if you were getting like a ton of them or request but it basically puts marketing in a good light and tells you which assets work. And second is, when you're ungating everything and you are creating good content, then, in the short run, you should see and be able to measure a higher engagement with your content, with your website. And in the long run, compared to a baseline, you want to be able to show an increase in requests.",[14,4430,4431,4433],{},[52,4432,4131],{},": Yeah, I can add to that. It was funny that he said that about that field, because we just added that as well. We have a great collaboration with our SDR team, they are giving us, you know, putting on feedback on our inbound, what's great and what's not. And then we are of course digging into that. Okay, what can we double down on right now? And then when we look at that data, of course, everything is direct traffic, everything great. So I think your point is absolutely valid. And I think that's also where we are going, finding more qualitative data. And I guess the question to you then is, have you found success with that? How do you, you know, have you found any trends that you didn't have before?",[14,4435,4436,4438],{},[52,4437,4125],{},": So it's funny, like, again, this is from my last company, but in my last company, the SDRs would usually put on everything outbound first, and you would contrast that with what the person said, which is, I saw you in this show, I read your blog post, I went to this webinar. And would often make for some nice conversations, funny conversations. So not so funny depending on which side you're on. But yeah, so another thing, by the way, is we're going into Account Based Marketing, you'll notice that it becomes really, really difficult to chase one source of an opportunity. You have 10 people in one opportunity, and maybe 100 people in an organization that are involved in multiple opportunities within your company. It becomes super difficult to attribute revenue to one conversion.",[14,4440,4441,4443],{},[52,4442,4119],{},": Yeah, I was just gonna say we could let we need to do another talk on just like this concept of inbound versus outbound and the friction it creates, and can we just get on a number and just everybody work together toward one number, regardless? Where it comes from, because that's a huge pet peeve of mine.",[14,4445,4446,4448],{},[52,4447,4131],{},": But do you think, on that Maurina, do you think that what creates that friction is the bonus goals that SDRs usually have on there? You know, creating things from outbound? Or what do you think is creating friction?",[14,4450,4451,4453],{},[52,4452,4119],{},": I mean, we only have nine minutes for a great conversation, because I have a lot of opinions on what creates that friction.",[14,4455,4456,4458],{},[52,4457,4125],{},": I can tell you something, my CEO told me recently that, you know, the sales team is on my shit list all the time, because I can tell them, this is your goal, you didn't hit it, if I don't say this to you as well, then they're not going to think very highly of you. So we kind of still need to prove that some things came from us. It's just like Maurina said, finding a number that we agree on that this is our goal, and then doing everything in our power to actually create the pipeline that hits that number. But aligning expectations, it can't be like everything is marketing. So 80% is more inbound or whatever.",[14,4460,4461,4463],{},[52,4462,9],{},": Well, we have a great follow up. Have to get on the books. We have another question here about, how can you be in mind leverage from folks who may be using a competing solution?",[14,4465,4466,4468],{},[52,4467,4108],{},": So what I would say, I think that's very brand specific how your brand shows up and in the market is important. Maybe the answer is if you have a brand that is combative, then you do do something that's very combative. If you have a brand, that's more you know, I take the high road, then the way you would address it would be different. I think that's something to really think about, it's always great when you're able to provide thought leadership and show up in a space where you understand the needs of your customers, and can talk about that and show the value of your audience, the value of your product, but I think how you actually do it, do you call it weaknesses is very brand friend specific.",[14,4470,4471,4473],{},[52,4472,4119],{},": Yeah, I think, two things. I think if you can, it's hard to do. And even with SDRs, it's hard to do, if you can show that you're interested in them, right, as many companies, we try to have clear differentiation and our product does this, I think if you take the time to get to know them, they'll appreciate that. And then you can kind of sell them. Then there's, I might be saying two competing things, then there's the, let's poke the bear. I was trying to think on 101 North, as you head into San Francisco, there was a billboard and I apologize if anybody works for Snowflake, but there was a billboard from a competing company. And it said something like, \"no flake\", or something like that. And it was, I mean, I like to be provocative. So I would say as far as you can go, you know, poke the bear and have some fun with it. But then also be kind and human to the people you're talking to.",[14,4475,4476,4478],{},[52,4477,4108],{},": Yeah, like I said, I think the only thing is just being mindful of the brand. Because if you do it on one end, and it's not aligned with the way you're doing other things, it can feel conflicting.",[14,4480,4481,4483],{},[52,4482,4125],{},": Again, assuming that I understood the question correctly, I think at least in my space, or at least in my experience, I've never been, because I've been working with startups, most of my career and in SaaS most of my career. I've never been in a company where the product is super commoditized and kind of every company I've worked with, we have competitors, but competitors are doing their own, have their own view of what's right and what makes them special. So focusing less on how you compared to a competitor and more about why you can make sense to begin with, and what makes you better than anything out there. And then not doing anything is usually like, the big competitor, right, for startup companies.",[14,4485,4486,4488],{},[52,4487,9],{},": We have a minute here. And that's it for questions. So I just want to ask one last question. And I'm looking through here to figure out which one's the best one to land on. But, yeah, let's start this. And so I think companies are trying to struggle with this to figure out, what, do I do this thing? Should I always do Demand Gen? Should I start with lead gen and then do demand gen? I mean, I feel like I know, based off of our conversation, but just to end here, you know, should everybody be doing demand gen. And I will start with Adam. What are your thoughts?",[14,4490,4491,4493],{},[52,4492,4131],{},": Yeah, of course. Yeah, I think so. I think as I said in the beginning, the few times I have failed is when I have started with lead gen based on that the company didn't want to do anything else, and tried to shift to demand gen but the mindset wasn't there to make that shift. So I think it would be much easier to start with the right focus, the right mindset, the value giving we have been talking about getting to know the people, and I think that is what you lose a bit if you start with a lead gen. Yeah, and I think it's hard to go back to be honest if that's what you are measured heavily upon. I have never succeeded at least.",[24,4495,3619],{"id":3618},[14,4497,4498],{},"Thank you all so much. I appreciate each and every one of you for joining me and for your time. This has been awesome. If anybody has any further questions or wants to connect with Amber, Maurina, Adam, and Tal, their links are below. Check them out, connect, follow up. They're amazing, amazing humans. It's an honor to know each of you. Thank you for joining me.",[14,4500,4501],{},"And thank you for joining us on this Tech Marketing Leader Roundtable. I'm looking to do these quarterly so be sure to subscribe and join our next one. And thank you listeners for commenting and joining in on the conversation that was great to have you and I look forward to seeing you next time.",[14,4503,4504,4505,4507],{},"This roundtable is brought to you by MKG Marketing, our digital marketing agency of Agile experts who specialize in SEO, digital advertising, and analytics. It's hosted by me, Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing, and the music mix and mastering from the video at front was done by Austin Ellis, our producer. And if you'd like to be a guest and join our roundtable, please email me at ",[206,4506,4039],{"href":4038}," to apply. Thank you all so much.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4509},[4510,4511,4512],{"id":3259,"depth":297,"text":3260},{"id":3272,"depth":297,"text":3273},{"id":3618,"depth":291,"text":3619},"2021-11-04T16:00Z","Join these tech marketing leaders, as we discuss the importance of Demand Generation. What it means to each person and how they made the leap.","https:\u002F\u002Fimages.pexels.com\u002Fphotos\u002F210158\u002Fpexels-photo-210158.jpeg?auto=compress&cs=tinysrgb&dpr=2&h=650&w=940",{},"\u002Fevents\u002Fdemand-gen-leap",{"title":4075,"description":4514},[4520,4525,4530,4534],{"name":4131,"title":4521,"company":4522,"img":4523,"url":4524},"Head of Demand Generation","GetAccept","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Fadam-holmgren.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fadam-holmgren\u002F",{"name":4108,"title":4526,"company":4527,"img":4528,"url":4529},"CEO","Tote + Pears","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Famber-anderson.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fambernanderson\u002F",{"name":4119,"title":3668,"company":4531,"img":4532,"url":4533},"Primer.ai","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Fmaurina-venturelli.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Ftal-valler-4b9a4523\u002F",{"name":4125,"title":4535,"company":4536,"img":4537,"url":4538},"CMO","Zoovu","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Ftal-valler.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fmaurinaventurelli\u002F","events\u002Fdemand-gen-leap","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fvideo\u002Fevent\u002Furn:li:ugcPost:6856889444369342464\u002F","xJGxaZzdwg_RZUa1VOHupWG8zC19GkQGtMoJwnUf4Jg",[4543,4590,4644,4691,4739,1778,4789,4837,1831,4900,4968,5014,5052,5095,5139],{"id":4544,"title":4545,"body":4546,"date":7,"description":4577,"extension":318,"images":4578,"isLeader":322,"jobTitle":4580,"linkedIn":4581,"meta":4582,"name":4583,"navigation":322,"path":4584,"quote":4585,"quoteCite":4586,"ref":4581,"seo":4587,"sequence":297,"stem":4588,"team":1828,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4589},"team\u002Fteam\u002Falanna-moman-rawden.md","Alanna Moman Rawden",{"type":11,"value":4547,"toc":4574},[4548,4552,4555,4558,4561,4563],[14,4549,4551],{"className":4550},[1785],"Alanna graduated from the University of Alabama in 2004. She started her career at an advertising agency in Birmingham, AL, and has spent most of her career in Account Leadership roles working on consumer brands like Verizon Wireless, Books-A-Million, Toys ‘R’ Us, and Hard Rock Hotel & Casinos. In 2015, she left the agency world with a desire to gain more digital advertising experience, which led to her running a one-person digital department for a regional credit union.",[14,4553,4554],{},"Account Direction has always been a natural fit for Alanna because she enjoys managing projects, big picture strategy, and building relationships. She chose to come back to the agency world when she learned about MKG and our People First values.",[14,4556,4557],{},"She is most proud of the impact she had on her previous company by creating a positive and supportive environment for those she managed. ",[14,4559,4560],{},"Alanna enjoys spending time with her husband and two teenage daughters, has a very eclectic taste in music, and is an obsessive Hamilfan.",[81,4562,1806],{"id":1805},[46,4564,4565,4568,4571],{},[49,4566,4567],{},"In college, she won a radio contest for her youngest brother to have dinner with Nickelback. The band spent the entire evening trying to convince her, then 15-year-old, brother to drop out of school.",[49,4569,4570],{},"She once spent 3 hours convincing a famous country singer to get off his tour bus to shoot a commercial that her client had contracted him to be in.",[49,4572,4573],{},"Her family is a big fan of True Crime, and they binge Crime Junkie on every road trip.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4575},[4576],{"id":1805,"depth":297,"text":1806},"Meet Alanna Moman-Rawden, one of MKG Marketing’s amazing Account Directors, bringing 15+ years of account leadership and direction to the table.",{"landscape":4579},"alanna-moman-rawden.webp","Director, People & Culture","alanna-moman-rawden",{},"Alanna Moman-Rawden","\u002Fteam\u002Falanna-moman-rawden","I am the one thing in life I can control. I am inimitable. I am an original.","Aaron Burr, Hamilton",{"description":4577},"team\u002Falanna-moman-rawden","WPmQvGfbA7GjEpvcVEps9YUFm4Ihb7jAlxEbp7tr3IA",{"id":4591,"title":4592,"body":4593,"date":7,"description":4632,"extension":318,"images":4633,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4635,"linkedIn":4636,"meta":4637,"name":4592,"navigation":322,"path":4638,"quote":7,"quoteCite":4586,"ref":4639,"seo":4640,"sequence":4641,"stem":4642,"team":4635,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4643},"team\u002Fteam\u002Falicia-antonow.md","Alicia Antonow",{"type":11,"value":4594,"toc":4630},[4595,4600,4603,4608,4611,4616,4619,4624,4627],[14,4596,4597],{},[52,4598,4599],{},"How I Got Into Digital Advertising",[14,4601,4602],{},"With a background as a nurse, my journey into digital advertising began unexpectedly when I back to Ann Arbor, Michigan. A Google Partner approached me to assist with healthcare content and ads. I quickly discovered a passion for the field, and with Google Ads sales training followed by SEM training, I was hooked.",[14,4604,4605],{},[52,4606,4607],{},"What I Love About Paid Search",[14,4609,4610],{},"Every campaign is like a unique puzzle, even within the same industry. Variations in geography, audiences, and keywords make each project different. I enjoy leveraging the full suite of Google products—Search, Display, Demand Gen, and YouTube—because they work best when integrated. The ever-evolving nature of the work keeps me inspired and challenged.",[14,4612,4613],{},[52,4614,4615],{},"Why I Chose MKG Marketing",[14,4617,4618],{},"I was drawn to MKG Marketing for its people-first culture. The company recognizes that we are all human, with lives outside of work, and fosters a supportive environment that values balance and well-being.",[14,4620,4621],{},[52,4622,4623],{},"Fun Facts About Me",[14,4625,4626],{},"I’m an avid traveler and love immersing myself in different cultures. Before having kids, my husband and I spent at least three months each year exploring the world.",[14,4628,4629],{},"I take cooking classes with locals wherever I go and love scuba diving whenever there’s water nearby.\nMy kids are my world—seeing their faces light up when experiencing something new brings me the greatest joy.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4631},[],"Meet Alicia Antonow, one of MKG Marketing’s saavy digital ads experts, bringing 15+ years of hands on execution and strategy to the table.",{"landscape":4634},"alicia-antonow.webp","Digital Advertising Experts","alicia-a-36459bb5",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Falicia-antonow","alicia-antonow",{"description":4632},54,"team\u002Falicia-antonow","dX6MgSjdInEGV2mLfl0Uv4cjJ2Si5idzNXLe33_xMZY",{"id":4645,"title":4646,"body":4647,"date":7,"description":4678,"extension":318,"images":4679,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4681,"linkedIn":4682,"meta":4683,"name":4646,"navigation":322,"path":4684,"quote":7,"quoteCite":7,"ref":4685,"seo":4686,"sequence":4687,"stem":4688,"team":4689,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4690},"team\u002Fteam\u002Favery-davis.md","Avery Davis",{"type":11,"value":4648,"toc":4675},[4649,4653,4656,4659,4662,4664],[14,4650,4652],{"className":4651},[1785],"\nAvery began his digital marketing career at a tech startup focused on ID scanning and facial recognition software. In addition to gaining a deep understanding of paid media and analytics, this peaked his interest in cybersecurity and tech in general. He then transitioned to agency life where he specialized in SaaS marketing.\n",[14,4654,4655],{},"Over the years, Avery has touched a variety of verticals including health and beauty, eCommerce, medical\u002Fpharma, education, and more. He is drawn to agency life because of the variety of clients he is able to work with and, in turn, learn from.",[14,4657,4658],{},"Although he’s touched several areas of digital marketing, Avery feels most at home when doing Account\u002F Project Management as well as Copywriting.",[14,4660,4661],{},"As is the theme with many of our staff, Avery was drawn to MKG because of our culture. In Avery’s words “MKG shares the same values as I do in both my professional and my personal life. When I saw that we meshed so well, this was an opportunity I couldn’t refuse!”",[81,4663,1806],{"id":1805},[46,4665,4666,4669,4672],{},[49,4667,4668],{},"Avery is an avid racquetball player. Having first gotten into the sport in college, he’s had lots of fun playing over the years. He tries to get to the court at least once a week.",[49,4670,4671],{},"Avery is a hobby bartender and enjoys making, tasting, and learning about different drinks. He’s mainly a Kentucky bourbon guy but also loves Japanese whisky!",[49,4673,4674],{},"Avery is a black belt in Pasaryu. This is a Korean mixed martial art which includes karate, kung fu, and Taekwondo. He has also trained and competed with weapons: nunchucks and samurai sword just to name a couple!",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4676},[4677],{"id":1805,"depth":297,"text":1806},"Avery Davis is an Account Superivor here at MKG Marketing.",{"landscape":4680},"avery-davis.webp","Account Supervisor","avery-davis-114055191",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Favery-davis","avery-davis",{"description":4678},59,"team\u002Favery-davis","Account Services","ysXkJK5t3F27trCgdjC7IRHXNs-Qxp9YxjH9QT3gDqQ",{"id":4692,"title":4693,"body":4694,"date":7,"description":4724,"extension":318,"images":4725,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4727,"linkedIn":4728,"meta":4729,"name":4693,"navigation":322,"path":4730,"quote":4731,"quoteCite":4732,"ref":4733,"seo":4734,"sequence":4735,"stem":4736,"team":4737,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4738},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fjared-gerling.md","Jared Gerling",{"type":11,"value":4695,"toc":4722},[4696,4699,4702,4705,4708,4711],[14,4697,4698],{},"Jared's journey into digital marketing started with answering a classified ad for a company looking for people with writing backgrounds for a position in SEO. As a graduate of Michigan State University with a degree in Creative Writing, this sounded like the perfect opportunity.",[14,4700,4701],{},"This small agency taught him SEO from the ground up, and, after taking a break from digital marketing to receive his MA from DePaul University, Jared jumped back into the field at a medium-sized agency out of Chicago as an SEO analyst.",[14,4703,4704],{},"Since then, Jared has worked for large and small marketing agencies for over a decade, providing expert SEO services in almost every industry that has a website on the internet. And with his background in writing, Jared feels most at home in the content and customer facing side of SEO and digital marketing.",[14,4706,4707],{},"It was first and foremost the people that drew Jared to MKG. Everyone at MKG has been so in tune with his values and his personality, and they've made his time at MKG easily the best experience of his career.",[14,4709,4710],{},"Fun Facts:",[46,4712,4713,4716,4719],{},[49,4714,4715],{},"I love to travel with my wife. We've been to many incredible places over the years, and are always on the lookout for our next destination.",[49,4717,4718],{},"I was a college rower in my younger days. I rowed mostly eights as a port, and competed against some of the best schools in the nation...and lost to most of them.",[49,4720,4721],{},"I love a really good French Martini.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4723},[],"Meet Jared Gerling, one of MKG Marketing’s thoughtful SEO Experts, bringing 10+ years of experience, intentionality, and creativity to the team.",{"landscape":4726},"jared-gerling.webp","SEO Expert","jaredgerling",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fjared-gerling","The truth is, most of us discover where we are heading when we arrive.","Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)","jared-gerling",{"description":4724},55,"team\u002Fjared-gerling","SEO Experts","1TbRdjbaY8GvD4YbpM3Pm85IGECKXrMtdVY8OquXFkg",{"id":4740,"title":4741,"body":4742,"date":7,"description":4776,"extension":318,"images":4777,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4779,"linkedIn":7,"meta":4780,"name":4782,"navigation":322,"path":4783,"quote":7,"quoteCite":7,"ref":4784,"seo":4785,"sequence":4786,"stem":4787,"team":7,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4788},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fkathy-obrien.md","Kathy Obrien",{"type":11,"value":4743,"toc":4773},[4744,4748,4751,4757,4760,4762],[14,4745,4747],{"className":4746},[1785],"\nKathy loves details and has managed the finer details of business her entire career.  She started her career in Center City, Philadelphia working for several law firms.  After she was married and had her first son, she left the bustling city to work closer to home at an international publishing company.  In 1994, Kathy and her husband Bill moved with their two sons to Charlotte, North Carolina.  They eventually completed their family with two more boys born in Charlotte.\n",[14,4749,4750],{},"In 2000 they relocated to Chester County, a suburb of Philadelphia. After a hiatus and four sons, Kathy returned to work in Chester County. This time, she gave retail a whirl so that she could be home when her school age boys were home. She quickly found out Ann Taylor was employing one of their best customers. Kathy then spent the following 10+ years in the Non-Profit arena where she did whatever needed to be done to further the mission. No job was too big, small, or unimportant to tackle.",[4752,4753,4754],"blockquote",{},[14,4755,4756],{},"Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.\nMother Teresa",[14,4758,4759],{},"By February 2020, Kathy was eager to build something for herself and her family. She set off on a new adventure of starting her own business when she was connected with Kerry, Mike, and MKG. Having commuted and worked outside of the home for 10+ years, she was ready to work from home and have a better life balance. She followed the rainbow and found MKG in her pot of gold. MKG is like no other firm or organization for which Kathy has worked. Their standard of people first is evident in every team member, every decision, every meeting, every interaction. They live their standard.",[81,4761,1806],{"id":1805},[46,4763,4764,4767,4770],{},[49,4765,4766],{},"Kathy’s dislikes: fruit & chocolate together and Tuesday.",[49,4768,4769],{},"Family: Kathy met her husband Bill in Wildwood, New Jersey after their high school graduations during “Senior Week”. They have 4 sons and 2 grandsons. There hasn’t been a girl born in the O’Brien family in 32 years! You will often hear Kathy saying her boys are the best 4 gifts she’s ever been given.",[49,4771,4772],{},"Special talent: Baking. Her boys’ (Bill included) favorites are Spritz Cookies and Chocolate Chip Cookies. There is a running family debate as to whether Ricotta Cookies are cookies or biscuits. At Christmas time, Kathy has been known to hide cookies to save some for guests.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4774},[4775],{"id":1805,"depth":297,"text":1806},"Meet Kathy O’Brien, MKG Marketing’s amazing executive assistant who consistently supports all of MKG across the many needs of the company.",{"landscape":4778},"kathy-obrien.webp","Executive Assistant",{"imageDescription":4781},"Kathy O’Brien, MKG Marketing’s Executive Assistant, in front of a gray background | MKG Marketing","Kathy O'Brien","\u002Fteam\u002Fkathy-obrien","kathy-obrien",{"description":4776},80,"team\u002Fkathy-obrien","lRwZA7wCSBsHC6ufODo6kKfYgfp9Nf-RTYoTK1zEMo0",{"id":4790,"title":4791,"body":4792,"date":7,"description":4825,"extension":318,"images":4826,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4828,"linkedIn":4829,"meta":4830,"name":4791,"navigation":322,"path":4831,"quote":7,"quoteCite":7,"ref":4832,"seo":4833,"sequence":4834,"stem":4835,"team":4635,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4836},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fleigh-snyder.md","Leigh Snyder",{"type":11,"value":4793,"toc":4822},[4794,4798,4801,4804,4807,4810,4813,4816,4819],[14,4795,4797],{"className":4796},[1785],"\nLeigh has over 15 years of experience of managing Paid Search campaigns. She started her career at Solid Cactus, a full service eCommerce agency in Wilkes Barre Pennsylvania. Having no experience in Paid Search, she learned as she went, starting out in the earlier days of Google Adwords, when Adwords Editor wasn't even being used yet.\n",[14,4799,4800],{},"Leigh loves to create accounts and watch them grow, even more she loves to take a poorly performing account and turn it around. Watching the KPIs increase from changes she has made or new ideas she implements, keeps her career exciting.",[14,4802,4803],{},"Managing a wide variety of accounts that include local car dealerships, worldwide clothing stores, online supplement shops to plastic surgeons and much much more, Leigh brings a vast knowledge of creative ways in managing accounts.",[14,4805,4806],{},"While working the majority of her career in local offices, the options for expanding her career were becoming less and less. She decided to apply for a remote job (before it was the norm) and was able to get experience that wasn't as prevalent in the smaller area in which she resides.",[14,4808,4809],{},"After working from home for the past 6 years the opportunities kept coming and when MKG reached out to her, she knew that there was something special about them and decided to take the leap. The people first environment is not just talked about here, but it is practiced everyday. MKG Marketing is unlike anywhere she has ever worked.",[14,4811,4812],{},"Outside of work, Leigh enjoys spending time with her husband Dustin, their blended family (Emma, Casey, Jake & Brayden) and their dog Millie.",[14,4814,4815],{},"The kitchen is where you will always find her, she loves to cook and bake all things Gluten Free and no one ever knows. When they are not at a swim meet or a baseball game they love swimming in their pool, long walks on the local trails, renovating their house and binging shows.",[81,4817,4818],{"id":1805},"Fun Facts",[14,4820,4821],{},"Although it was just was a short time, at age 19 Leigh drove cross country from a small town in PA and moved to Hollywood Hills, CA. Her view from her kitchen window was the Hollywood sign. Not a bad first apartment.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4823},[4824],{"id":1805,"depth":297,"text":4818},"Meet Leigh Snyder, one of MKG Marketing’s amazing digital advertising experts, bringing 15 plus years of experience to the team",{"landscape":4827},"leigh-snyder.webp","Digital Advertising Expert","leighasnyder",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fleigh-snyder","leigh-snyder",{"description":4825},50,"team\u002Fleigh-snyder","tY2JnqulQK9AU4TGRfATRnob3Thk9e9yAPu6iKBPA_s",{"id":4838,"title":4839,"body":4840,"date":7,"description":4887,"extension":318,"images":4888,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4890,"linkedIn":4891,"meta":4892,"name":4839,"navigation":322,"path":4894,"quote":4895,"quoteCite":4839,"ref":4891,"seo":4896,"sequence":4897,"stem":4898,"team":7,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4899},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fceleste-jacroux.md","Celeste Jacroux",{"type":11,"value":4841,"toc":4884},[4842,4850,4853,4860,4864],[14,4843,4845,4846,4849],{"className":4844},[1785],"\nCeleste Jacroux is a Go-to-Market architect for companies ready to graduate from \"random acts of marketing\" to a predictable revenue engine. As the Founder of ",[52,4847,4848],{},"Swell Marketing Advisors"," and a strategic partner to MKG, she brings deep expertise in aligning product, sales, and marketing into a cohesive GTM strategy.",[14,4851,4852],{},"Celeste understands that for founders, the hardest phase is often bridging the gap between a great product and the market that needs it. She specializes in clarifying positioning, defining ideal customer profiles (ICPs), and building the strategic roadmap that turns vision into traction.",[14,4854,4855,4856,4859],{},"At MKG, Celeste steps in as a Marketing Leader for our ",[52,4857,4858],{},"Marketing Leadership + Activation"," clients. She provides the senior-level direction and GTM rigor, working hand-in-hand with MKG’s activation teams to ensure that strategy doesn't just sit in a deck—it gets executed, measured, and optimized for growth.",[81,4861,4863],{"id":4862},"expertise","Expertise",[46,4865,4866,4872,4878],{},[49,4867,4868,4871],{},[52,4869,4870],{},"Go-to-Market Strategy:"," Launching new products and entering new markets with precision.",[49,4873,4874,4877],{},[52,4875,4876],{},"Positioning & Messaging:"," Translating complex tech into clear customer value.",[49,4879,4880,4883],{},[52,4881,4882],{},"Sales & Marketing Alignment:"," Ensuring the revenue team is fighting the same battle.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4885},[4886],{"id":4862,"depth":297,"text":4863},"Meet Celeste Jacroux, a strategic GTM partner to MKG and Founder of Sweel Marketing Advisors. She leads Go-to-Market strategy for high-growth companies.",{"landscape":4889},"celeste-jacroux.webp","Fractional GTM Leader | Founder, Swell Marketing Advisors","celeste-jacroux",{"imageDescription":4893},"Celeste Jacroux, Founder of Swell Marketing Advisors and MKG Partner","\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fceleste-jacroux","A great product doesn't win on its own. It wins when the story, the strategy, and the sales motion all pull in the exact same direction.",{"description":4887},7,"team\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fceleste-jacroux","xCdtcFdNV4sp78oidUDMCvxluqrG5iEdRJkxxEAOYq0",{"id":4901,"title":4902,"body":4903,"date":7,"description":4954,"extension":318,"images":4955,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4957,"linkedIn":4958,"meta":4959,"name":4961,"navigation":322,"path":4962,"quote":4963,"quoteCite":4961,"ref":4958,"seo":4964,"sequence":4965,"stem":4966,"team":7,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4967},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Flaura-mcaliley.md","Laura Mcaliley",{"type":11,"value":4904,"toc":4951},[4905,4909,4920,4923,4929,4931],[14,4906,4908],{"className":4907},[1785],"\nLaura McAliley is the growth strategist founders call when they are ready to turn early traction into sustainable momentum. As the Founder of Pebble Marketing and a key Marketing Leadership partner for MKG, Laura bridges the gap between high-level vision and the gritty execution required to scale.",[14,4910,4911,4912,4915,4916,4919],{},"Her track record speaks the language of investors and boards. She has successfully scaled SaaS startups from seed stage through to exit, most notably orchestrating a ",[52,4913,4914],{},"3x revenue lift"," at ",[52,4917,4918],{},"Security Journey"," that led to a successful acquisition.",[14,4921,4922],{},"Laura thrives in the \"messy middle\" of growth. Whether she is navigating the complexities of a Fortune 100 account or launching a scrappy go-to-market strategy for a new startup, her approach is the same: build the brand, unlock the revenue, and get the business investor-ready.",[14,4924,4925,4926,4928],{},"At MKG, Laura acts as a Fractional CMO for our ",[52,4927,4858],{}," clients, bringing the senior firepower needed to professionalize your marketing function without the full-time executive headcount.",[81,4930,4863],{"id":4862},[46,4932,4933,4939,4945],{},[49,4934,4935,4938],{},[52,4936,4937],{},"SaaS Scaling:"," From Seed to Exit",[49,4940,4941,4944],{},[52,4942,4943],{},"Revenue Operations:"," Aligning marketing spend with sales outcomes",[49,4946,4947,4950],{},[52,4948,4949],{},"Brand Strategy:"," Positioning startups for acquisition and investment",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4952},[4953],{"id":4862,"depth":297,"text":4863},"Meet Laura McAliley, a strategic partner to MKG and Founder of Pebble Marketing. She serves as a Fractional CMO, helping founders scale from seed to exit.",{"landscape":4956},"laura-mcaliley.webp","Fractional CMO | Founder, Pebble Marketing","laura-mcaliley",{"imageDescription":4960},"Laura McAliley, Fractional CMO and Founder of Pebble Marketing","Laura McAliley","\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Flaura-mcaliley","Founders don't need another slide deck. They need a roadmap to revenue and a partner willing to get their hands dirty to build it.",{"description":4954},6,"team\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Flaura-mcaliley","ke5GsAQwur6LBbt6guZUCgKQT6MJJm8UL5XCaXjVnZM",{"id":4969,"title":4970,"body":4971,"date":7,"description":4999,"extension":318,"images":5000,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":5002,"linkedIn":5003,"meta":5004,"name":4970,"navigation":322,"path":5006,"quote":5007,"quoteCite":5008,"ref":5009,"seo":5010,"sequence":5011,"stem":5012,"team":7,"twitter":5003,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":5013},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmike-krass.md","Mike Krass",{"type":11,"value":4972,"toc":4997},[4973,4977,4980,4983],[14,4974,4976],{"className":4975},[1785],"A proud Washington State University alum — Go Cougs! — who grew up on the west coast of the United States, Mike has lived on three continents during his lifetime.",[14,4978,4979],{},"Over the past decade Mike has led MKG Marketing in becoming a 7-figure business, joined the global Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) as a member as well as holds a seat on their Board of Directors and mentored other business owners through organizations like Idea Village, EO and General Assembly.",[14,4981,4982],{},"When he’s not at work, Mike enjoys:",[46,4984,4985,4988,4991,4994],{},[49,4986,4987],{},"Riding his beach cruiser bike in the park.",[49,4989,4990],{},"Reading business and spy novels (often at the same time — ask him how many half finished books he’s currently reading on his Kindle!)",[49,4992,4993],{},"Traveling the world.",[49,4995,4996],{},"Flying N5478N — his trusty 1981 Cessna 182.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4998},[],"Meet Mike Krass, one of MKG Marketing’s founders. He currently drives the big picture vision for the agency and supports biz dev and sales efforts.",{"landscape":5001},"mike-krass.webp","Owner\u002FVisionary","mikekrass",{"imageDescription":5005},"Mike Krass, MKG Marketing’s Owner\u002FVisionary, standing in front of St. Louis Cathedral in the French Quarter of New Orleans | MKG Marketing","\u002Fteam\u002Fmike-krass","Focus on the road, not the wall.","Alvin Alexander","mike-krass",{"description":4999},10,"team\u002Fmike-krass","WCJwOrpm4HOYHMODFwHdEILqPkcZwTSZUakkr3-n3rs",{"id":5015,"title":5016,"body":5017,"date":7,"description":5037,"extension":318,"images":5038,"isLeader":322,"jobTitle":5040,"linkedIn":5041,"meta":5042,"name":5016,"navigation":322,"path":5043,"quote":5044,"quoteCite":5045,"ref":5041,"seo":5046,"sequence":5047,"stem":5048,"team":5049,"twitter":5050,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":5051},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fnathan-stenberg.md","Nathan Stenberg",{"type":11,"value":5018,"toc":5035},[5019,5023,5026,5029,5032],[14,5020,5022],{"className":5021},[1785],"Our SEO Expert, Nathan, comes to MKG with an extensive background in digital marketing from front-end development to omni-channel marketing strategy.",[14,5024,5025],{},"He discovered SEO as part of a tech support job with a template website company where he was supporting clients with their websites. There he defined and developed the standards and processes that the SEO team would use for keyword research as well as the writing and implementation of the optimization. He then leveraged these standards to create an add-on subscription-based SEO product called “SEO Boost” which provided clients with a more proactive SEO service for their websites. This resulted in him providing keyword research and optimization recommendations for close to 1,500 websites during his tenure.",[14,5027,5028],{},"From there Nathan moved into the agency world, staring with a small boutique firm in Portland, OR, providing SEO audits and recommendations for clients ranging from small businesses to enterprise e-commerce companies.",[14,5030,5031],{},"He then moved to a larger agency and, once again, developed the SEO Team processes as the agency transitioned from an email-focused agency to a full-service digital marketing agency. During this time, Nathan was able to explore different areas of digital marketing strategy and really developed an understanding and passion for omni-channel marketing.",[14,5033,5034],{},"When Nathan is not working, he enjoys spending time with his partner and two children. You can find him playing casual sports, music, and Overwatch as well as snowboarding and cooking.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":5036},[],"Meet Nathan Stenberg, one of MKG Marketing’s Digital Marketing Strategist, with an extensive background in digital marketing from front-end development to omni-channel strategy. ",{"landscape":5039},"nathan-stenberg.webp","Director, Strategy","nathan-stenberg",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fnathan-stenberg","Repetition is the path to mastery.","Zenyatta",{"description":5037},4,"team\u002Fnathan-stenberg","Marketing Strategists","natestenberg23","1moy0e42nEoQgH0weNaASdQ6FTDWXwC5TDftv5YS3tU",{"id":5053,"title":5054,"body":5055,"date":7,"description":5083,"extension":318,"images":5084,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":4828,"linkedIn":5086,"meta":5087,"name":5054,"navigation":322,"path":5088,"quote":5089,"quoteCite":1824,"ref":5090,"seo":5091,"sequence":5092,"stem":5093,"team":4635,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":5094},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fnick-bare.md","Nick Bare",{"type":11,"value":5056,"toc":5081},[5057,5061,5064,5067,5070],[14,5058,5060],{"className":5059},[1785],"Nick Bare's college offered a digital technology and culture degree and heI ended up taking some communications and marketing classes as well and liked the thought of them all lining up with each other. Once he graduated, he landed a role in paid search and has been doing it for nine+ years now.",[14,5062,5063],{},"He loves that there's always a challenge to tackle. He enjoys taking on new accounts and getting into the weeds to see what can help them turn around and start driving more efficient leads.",[14,5065,5066],{},"He's most proud of being a dad.",[14,5068,5069],{},"Interesting facts:",[46,5071,5072,5075,5078],{},[49,5073,5074],{},"Born with a cleft lip and palate and has had seven surgeries in his life",[49,5076,5077],{},"Watched the Seahawks win Super Bowl 48 with his dad in New York",[49,5079,5080],{},"Travels around the country to visit all the MLB stadiums with his son",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":5082},[],"Meet Nick Bare, one of MKG Marketing’s Digital Advertising Expert, bringing 15 plus years of experience to the team. ",{"landscape":5085},"nick-bare.webp","nickbare",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fnick-bare","We can choose courage or we can choose comfort, but we can't have both.","nick-bare",{"description":5083},52,"team\u002Fnick-bare","yVusNcEIbiAvdPE02qyDKE_aINcQ0QMXSeyOKv9x5PE",{"id":5096,"title":5097,"body":5098,"date":7,"description":5083,"extension":318,"images":5125,"isLeader":1882,"jobTitle":5127,"linkedIn":5128,"meta":5129,"name":5097,"navigation":322,"path":5130,"quote":5131,"quoteCite":5132,"ref":5133,"seo":5134,"sequence":5135,"stem":5136,"team":5137,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":5138},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fprachi-sarin.md","Prachi Sarin",{"type":11,"value":5099,"toc":5123},[5100,5103,5106,5109],[14,5101,5102],{},"Prachi has worked in marketing for over 10 years across various industries, but digital marketing has always been her true interest. She finally got the opportunity to pursue it when she moved to the United States and joined MKG as an apprentice, embarking on her digital marketing journey.​",[14,5104,5105],{},"Why I Joined MKG Marketing:\nI joined MKG Marketing because of its people-first culture, transparency, and commitment to growth. It’s a place where I can learn, contribute, and work with a team that genuinely cares.",[14,5107,5108],{},"Fun Facts About Me:",[46,5110,5111,5114,5117,5120],{},[49,5112,5113],{},"I love to read detective, thriller, and mystery books and watch shows in the same genre.",[49,5115,5116],{},"I’m a mom to twin girls—they are my world! Watching them grow, learn, and explore life brings me joy.",[49,5118,5119],{},"I love cooking for my family. It started with my husband, who’s a foodie, and now we cook together for our daughters.",[49,5121,5122],{},"Our family also enjoys playing video games—it’s our way to unwind and have fun together.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":5124},[],{"landscape":5126},"prachi-sarin.webp","Digital Marketing Coordinator","prachisarin",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fprachi-sarin","We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things because we're curious, and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.","Walt Disney","prachi-sarin",{"description":5083},75,"team\u002Fprachi-sarin","Digital Marketing","LjXpVTmZn-XwzExAyq2igbw_fHhrVcf4nOLoEmURbEQ",{"id":5140,"title":5141,"body":5142,"date":7,"description":5156,"extension":318,"images":5157,"isLeader":322,"jobTitle":5159,"linkedIn":5160,"meta":5161,"name":5141,"navigation":322,"path":5162,"quote":5163,"quoteCite":5164,"ref":5165,"seo":5166,"sequence":291,"stem":5167,"team":1828,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":5168},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fsam-ellsworth.md","Sam Ellsworth",{"type":11,"value":5143,"toc":5154},[5144,5148,5151],[14,5145,5147],{"className":5146},[1785],"Sam has over 15 years of experience managing the development of marketing campaigns for national and global brands. She started her career in San Francisco, working in account management at ad agencies, where she managed a range of successful marketing campaigns from Super Bowl TV spots and fully-integrated product launches to social media campaigns and events.",[14,5149,5150],{},"After 12 years in San Francisco, Sam and her husband decided it was time to leave the big city and find a slower pace of life, settling down outside of Burlington, Vermont. Sam spent her first couple years in Vermont working remotely for a San Francisco agency and then as the Marketing Director at a local craft brewery before joining the MKG team. She was drawn to MKG due to our people first value and the opportunity to get to focus on a few specific, results driven marketing tactics.",[14,5152,5153],{},"Outside of work, Sam spends her time with her husband, 4-year-old daughter and chocolate lab exploring Vermont and all it has to offer — from hiking, skiing and enjoying all the local food to growing their backyard garden and working on a never-ending list of house renovations.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":5155},[],"Meet Sam Ellsworth, one of MKG Marketing’s amazing Account Directors, who brings over 15 years experience managing marketing campaign development. ",{"landscape":5158},"sam-ellsworth.webp","Director, Client Services","samantha-ellsworth-40875866",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fsam-ellsworth","Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.","Dr. Seuss","sam-ellsworth",{"description":5156},"team\u002Fsam-ellsworth","Xb0ljkUHaVzTObdBxfiOxIpE5jcK9HSfgiMlBhd8fuc",[5170,5194,6455],{"id":5171,"title":5172,"body":5173,"category":7,"date":5183,"description":5184,"extension":318,"index":5185,"meta":5186,"navigation":322,"order":7,"path":5180,"seo":5191,"stem":5192,"updated":7,"__hash__":5193},"resources\u002Fresources\u002Fai-seo.md","AI SEO: Why Tools Alone Won't Win AI Search",{"type":11,"value":5174,"toc":5181},[5175],[14,5176,5177,5178,212],{},"This guide is published as a designed page at ",[206,5179,5180],{"href":5180},"\u002Fresources\u002Fai-seo",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":5182},[],"2026-06-12","AI SEO tools let you publish more, faster — and in AI search, that backfires. Why winning takes an expert leading the strategy, not just software.",90,{"_schema":1772,"indexTitle":5187,"indexImg":5188,"indexCta":5189,"layout":77,"seotitle":5190},"AI SEO: Tool or Expert? What Actually Wins AI Search","\u002Fimages\u002Fresources\u002Fai-seo-guide-cover.webp","Read the guide","AI SEO for B2B SaaS",{"title":5172,"description":5184},"resources\u002Fai-seo","3JPZ0W5WhXwt45WtlRpq4ppRaeHWnnjS8OHg06MiZM4",{"id":5195,"title":5196,"body":5197,"category":7,"date":6445,"description":6446,"extension":318,"index":6447,"meta":6448,"navigation":322,"order":7,"path":6451,"seo":6452,"stem":6453,"updated":7,"__hash__":6454},"resources\u002Fresources\u002Fsvo-technical-guide-engineering-handshake.md","The Technical SVO Playbook for Marketing & Engineering Teams",{"type":11,"value":5198,"toc":6417},[5199,5205,5208,5216,5219,5225,5234,5236,5242,5245,5251,5254,5259,5264,5267,5272,5277,5289,5294,5299,5302,5310,5315,5318,5323,5328,5331,5333,5339,5342,5347,5354,5364,5367,5372,5378,5387,5401,5404,5407,5410,5415,5421,5424,5426,5432,5437,5440,5443,5576,5578,5584,5589,5592,5601,5603,5609,5612,5618,5621,5632,5641,5649,5656,5662,5851,5856,5944,5953,5955,5961,5964,5970,5986,5991,5997,6005,6008,6014,6019,6022,6046,6048,6054,6059,6062,6068,6071,6077,6082,6088,6094,6097,6122,6124,6130,6133,6139,6181,6187,6235,6241,6313,6319,6346,6352,6367,6369,6375,6381,6387,6393,6396,6398,6413],[14,5200,5201,5204],{},[206,5202,168],{"href":208,"rel":5203},[210]," is the discipline of building a technical foundation that makes your site discoverable, readable, and citable across Google's ranking algorithm, Google AI Overviews, and generative AI models like ChatGPT and Perplexity — simultaneously.",[14,5206,5207],{},"All three engines depend on the same underlying infrastructure. Build it correctly and rankings, AI Overview appearances, and LLM citations all compound together. Leave gaps and each engine is affected.",[14,5209,5210,5211,212],{},"This guide is built for marketing leaders and their engineering teams to use together. Every item includes the technical reason it belongs on the list. For the strategic layer — positioning, messaging, and building content that earns citations — see ",[206,5212,5215],{"href":5213,"rel":5214},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fresources\u002Fthe-ultimate-guide-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo\u002F",[210],"The Ultimate Guide to SVO",[5217,5218],"hr",{},[24,5220,5222],{"id":5221},"why-the-technical-foundation-matters-across-all-three-engines",[52,5223,5224],{},"Why the technical foundation matters across all three engines",[14,5226,5227,5228,5233],{},"According to ",[206,5229,5232],{"href":5230,"rel":5231},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.airanklab.com\u002Fblog\u002Fai-overview-checker-guide",[210],"AI Rank Lab",", 40–60% of US informational searches now trigger a Google AI Overview. Generative models like ChatGPT and Perplexity also crawl the web independently through their own bots — and most enterprise web firewalls are blocking them without anyone realizing it. Every item below has a direct, traceable effect on whether a specific engine can find, read, and cite your content.",[5217,5235],{},[24,5237,5239],{"id":5238},"phase-1-the-access-layer",[52,5240,5241],{},"Phase 1: The access layer",[14,5243,5244],{},"Before any engine can surface your content, it needs to be able to reach it. This section covers the foundational prerequisites first, then the SVO-specific additions.",[81,5246,5248],{"id":5247},"foundation-prerequisites-every-site-needs",[52,5249,5250],{},"Foundation: prerequisites every site needs",[14,5252,5253],{},"These are table stakes for any crawlable site. If they are not already in place, nothing else in this guide will have full effect.",[14,5255,5256],{},[52,5257,5258],{},"XML sitemap",[14,5260,5261],{},[38,5262,5263],{},"Without a sitemap, crawlers discover pages through link traversal only. Pages with few internal links — new content, deep content, campaign landing pages — may never be found organically, or may take weeks longer to index than pages a crawler arrives at via links.",[14,5265,5266],{},"Submit your sitemap to both Google Search Console and Bing Webmaster Tools. Bing's index feeds ChatGPT's real-time web search — a page not in Bing's index cannot be retrieved by ChatGPT regardless of how well it is optimized.",[14,5268,5269],{},[52,5270,5271],{},"robots.txt",[14,5273,5274],{},[38,5275,5276],{},"robots.txt is evaluated by crawlers before any web firewall or server-level access control. A Disallow rule that catches AI crawler user agents will block them regardless of what the firewall permits — the two configurations must be consistent.",[14,5278,5279,5280,5284,5285,5288],{},"Audit your robots.txt for wildcard Disallow rules. A single ",[5281,5282,5283],"code",{},"Disallow: \u002F"," under ",[5281,5286,5287],{},"User-agent: *"," blocks every crawler on the web including Googlebot, GPTBot, and PerplexityBot simultaneously.",[14,5290,5291],{},[52,5292,5293],{},"Canonical tags",[14,5295,5296],{},[38,5297,5298],{},"Without canonical tags on duplicate or near-duplicate URLs, crawl budget is split across all variants. The intended page receives a fraction of the crawl attention it would otherwise get, and crawlers may index the wrong version.",[14,5300,5301],{},"Canonical tags are especially critical on enterprise sites with faceted navigation, parameter-based filtering, campaign UTM variants, and translated or region-specific content. Every URL that should not be independently indexed needs a canonical pointing to the authoritative version.",[14,5303,5304,1042,5307],{},[52,5305,5306],{},"Hreflang",[38,5308,5309],{},"(international and multi-region sites only)",[14,5311,5312],{},[38,5313,5314],{},"Without hreflang, Google's international serving infrastructure selects language and region variants by content inference. This results in wrong-language pages appearing in wrong-market SERPs — and AI models trained on those signals may retrieve and cite the wrong content variant for a given audience.",[14,5316,5317],{},"Hreflang is only relevant if you serve multiple regions or languages. If you do, incorrect or missing hreflang is one of the most common sources of international ranking failures.",[14,5319,5320],{},[52,5321,5322],{},"Redirect hygiene",[14,5324,5325],{},[38,5326,5327],{},"Each redirect hop is a separate HTTP request and consumes a crawl budget unit. A three-hop chain means three requests to reach one page. PageRank and crawl priority dilute at each step, and long redirect chains are a common cause of indexing delays for new and updated content.",[14,5329,5330],{},"Audit for redirect chains (A → B → C) and redirect loops. Direct all internal links to the final destination URL. Chains commonly accumulate after site migrations and rebrands.",[5217,5332],{},[81,5334,5336],{"id":5335},"diagnose-before-you-proceed-three-gsc-checks",[52,5337,5338],{},"Diagnose before you proceed: three GSC checks",[14,5340,5341],{},"Run these before implementing anything below. You do not need an SEO background to do this — you are looking at traffic lights: green is fine, red needs attention.",[14,5343,5344],{},[52,5345,5346],{},"1. Check which pages Google has skipped",[14,5348,5349,5350,5353],{},"In Google Search Console: go to ",[52,5351,5352],{},"Indexing → Pages"," in the left sidebar. You will see a list of reasons why pages were not indexed.",[14,5355,5356,5357,5360,5361],{},"Look for two categories: ",[38,5358,5359],{},"\"Discovered — currently not indexed\""," and ",[38,5362,5363],{},"\"Crawled — currently not indexed.\"",[14,5365,5366],{},"A handful of pages in either category is normal — new pages always take time. If you see dozens or hundreds, that is a signal that Google is deliberately skipping pages, usually because it considers them low-quality, near-duplicate, or not worth the crawl time. IndexNow and the other steps below will not fix that. It requires a different conversation about content consolidation.",[14,5368,5369],{},[52,5370,5371],{},"2. Check whether your pages look the same to Google as they do to you",[14,5373,5374,5375],{},"In Google Search Console: paste any high-priority page URL into the search bar at the top and hit enter. On the results screen, click ",[52,5376,5377],{},"\"View Crawled Page.\"",[14,5379,5380,5381,5360,5384],{},"You will see two tabs: ",[52,5382,5383],{},"Screenshot",[52,5385,5386],{},"HTML.",[46,5388,5389,5395],{},[49,5390,5391,5392,5394],{},"The ",[52,5393,5383],{}," shows what the page looks like visually to Google.",[49,5396,5391,5397,5400],{},[52,5398,5399],{},"HTML"," tab shows the underlying code Google actually received.",[14,5402,5403],{},"What you are looking for: does the HTML tab contain your actual page content — headings, body copy, product descriptions? Or is it mostly empty, with just a few lines of code and no readable text?",[14,5405,5406],{},"If the screenshot looks like your full page but the HTML tab is nearly empty, your page is built in a way where the content only appears after a visitor's browser runs additional code. Google often cannot do that on its first crawl. The content it is trying to rank is invisible to it. This is an engineering fix — flag it with the path to that page and share this guide.",[14,5408,5409],{},"If both tabs show your content, you are fine.",[14,5411,5412],{},[52,5413,5414],{},"3. Check Core Web Vitals (CWV)",[14,5416,5349,5417,5420],{},[52,5418,5419],{},"Experience → Core Web Vitals"," in the left sidebar. You are looking for pages marked in red (\"Poor\") or orange (\"Needs Improvement\").",[14,5422,5423],{},"Core Web Vitals measure how fast and stable your pages feel to a real user. Chronic failures here do not directly block crawlers, but they often indicate underlying infrastructure problems — slow servers, oversized images, bloated code — that affect everything including how often Google decides to crawl the site.",[5217,5425],{},[81,5427,5429],{"id":5428},"bot-deny-listing-the-silent-killer",[52,5430,5431],{},"Bot Deny Listing — The Silent Killer",[14,5433,5434],{},[38,5435,5436],{},"Your site's web firewall is configured to protect against malicious bots by blocking unrecognized traffic. AI crawlers are unrecognized by default — they send the same type of request as any other bot, identified only by their user agent string. Most enterprise web firewalls block them silently. The crawlers receive no response, and nothing in your server logs or analytics indicates it's happening.",[14,5438,5439],{},"This is the most commonly missed issue on enterprise sites. The goal for your engineering team is straightforward: ensure known AI crawlers are explicitly allowed before any blocking rules apply to them.",[14,5441,5442],{},"The broadest and most future-proof approach is to allow all verified good-bot traffic by policy — rather than maintaining a manual list that grows stale as new AI models launch. At minimum, confirm these are explicitly permitted:",[717,5444,5445,5458],{},[720,5446,5447],{},[723,5448,5449,5452,5455],{},[726,5450,5451],{},"User Agent",[726,5453,5454],{},"Company",[726,5456,5457],{},"What It Powers",[736,5459,5460,5473,5485,5498,5511,5524,5537,5550,5563],{},[723,5461,5462,5467,5470],{},[741,5463,5464],{},[5281,5465,5466],{},"GPTBot",[741,5468,5469],{},"OpenAI",[741,5471,5472],{},"ChatGPT browsing and web indexing",[723,5474,5475,5480,5482],{},[741,5476,5477],{},[5281,5478,5479],{},"OAI-SearchBot",[741,5481,5469],{},[741,5483,5484],{},"ChatGPT real-time search",[723,5486,5487,5492,5495],{},[741,5488,5489],{},[5281,5490,5491],{},"anthropic-ai",[741,5493,5494],{},"Anthropic",[741,5496,5497],{},"Claude",[723,5499,5500,5505,5508],{},[741,5501,5502],{},[5281,5503,5504],{},"PerplexityBot",[741,5506,5507],{},"Perplexity",[741,5509,5510],{},"Perplexity AI",[723,5512,5513,5518,5521],{},[741,5514,5515],{},[5281,5516,5517],{},"CCBot",[741,5519,5520],{},"Common Crawl",[741,5522,5523],{},"Training data source for many LLMs",[723,5525,5526,5531,5534],{},[741,5527,5528],{},[5281,5529,5530],{},"Google-Extended",[741,5532,5533],{},"Google",[741,5535,5536],{},"Gemini AI training",[723,5538,5539,5544,5547],{},[741,5540,5541],{},[5281,5542,5543],{},"Applebot-Extended",[741,5545,5546],{},"Apple",[741,5548,5549],{},"Apple Intelligence",[723,5551,5552,5557,5560],{},[741,5553,5554],{},[5281,5555,5556],{},"DeepSeekBot",[741,5558,5559],{},"DeepSeek",[741,5561,5562],{},"DeepSeek AI",[723,5564,5565,5570,5573],{},[741,5566,5567],{},[5281,5568,5569],{},"MoonshotBot",[741,5571,5572],{},"Moonshot AI",[741,5574,5575],{},"Kimi AI assistant",[5217,5577],{},[81,5579,5581],{"id":5580},"indexnow",[52,5582,5583],{},"IndexNow",[14,5585,5586],{},[38,5587,5588],{},"Standard crawl-and-index is passive — search engines check for new content on their own schedule. IndexNow is a push protocol that notifies search engines at the moment of publish, eliminating the lag between when content exists and when it can be indexed.",[14,5590,5591],{},"Microsoft is the largest investor in OpenAI. ChatGPT's real-time web search runs on Bing's index — when a user asks ChatGPT a question with web search enabled, results are sourced from Bing. A page not in Bing's index is not retrievable by ChatGPT. IndexNow is the fastest path to Bing indexing, and by extension the fastest path into ChatGPT's retrieval pipeline.",[14,5593,5594,5595,5600],{},"Implementation varies by stack. The ",[206,5596,5599],{"href":5597,"rel":5598},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.indexnow.org\u002Fdocumentation",[210],"IndexNow API documentation"," covers the protocol in full. If your site runs behind Cloudflare, a native Crawler Hints integration may be available — check Cloudflare's documentation for the current configuration option. When enabled, it handles the push automatically whenever a cached URL is updated.",[5217,5602],{},[24,5604,5606],{"id":5605},"phase-2-the-understanding-layer",[52,5607,5608],{},"Phase 2: The understanding layer",[14,5610,5611],{},"Accessing a page and understanding it are two different problems. This phase covers the structured data layer that tells every engine what type of entity a page represents, who created it, and what it is about.",[81,5613,5615],{"id":5614},"json-ld-schema",[52,5616,5617],{},"JSON-LD schema",[14,5619,5620],{},"AI models are increasingly capable of reading and interpreting web pages on their own. Capable, however, is not the same as certain. Without structured data, a model reading a case study page might identify a client's logo as your company logo, misattribute authorship, or misclassify what the page is entirely. Structured data removes that ambiguity — it provides a deterministic source of truth that engines use instead of inference. Every schema type below tells a specific engine something it cannot reliably determine on its own.",[14,5622,5623,5624,5627,5628,5631],{},"JSON-LD is the implementation format Google and every major AI system reads. It lives in a ",[5281,5625,5626],{},"\u003Cscript type=\"application\u002Fld+json\">"," tag in the document ",[5281,5629,5630],{},"\u003Chead>"," and requires no changes to the visual design of the page.",[14,5633,5634,5635,5640],{},"Most enterprise sites have a basic ",[206,5636,5639],{"href":5637,"rel":5638},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FOrganization",[210],"Organization"," block. The real work is templating schema at the content type level so every page automatically declares what it is.",[14,5642,5643],{},[52,5644,5645,5648],{},[206,5646,5639],{"href":5637,"rel":5647},[210]," — the entity foundation",[14,5650,5651,5652,5655],{},"Every site needs this. The ",[5281,5653,5654],{},"sameAs"," attribute is particularly important for AI models: linking to your LinkedIn company page, G2 profile, and Crunchbase entry creates entity graph connections that AI models use to disambiguate your brand from similarly named organizations when generating responses.",[14,5657,5658,5659,5661],{},"Here is what a complete ",[5281,5660,5639],{}," block looks like, using MKG Marketing as an example:",[5663,5664,5668],"pre",{"className":5665,"code":5666,"language":5667,"meta":77,"style":77},"language-json shiki shiki-themes github-light github-dark","{\n  \"@context\": \"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\",\n  \"@type\": \"Organization\",\n  \"@id\": \"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002F#organization\",\n  \"name\": \"MKG Marketing, Inc.\",\n  \"url\": \"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002F\",\n  \"logo\": {\n    \"@type\": \"ImageObject\",\n    \"url\": \"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fimages\u002Fmkg-logo.png\"\n  },\n  \"description\": \"B2B digital marketing agency specializing in Search Visibility Optimization across SEO, AEO, and GEO.\",\n  \"sameAs\": [\n    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fcompany\u002Fmkg-marketing\",\n    \"https:\u002F\u002Ftwitter.com\u002Fmkgmarketinginc\",\n    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.facebook.com\u002Fmkgmarketinginc\",\n    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.instagram.com\u002Fmkgmarketinginc\",\n    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.crunchbase.com\u002Forganization\u002Fmkg-marketing\"\n  ]\n}\n","json",[5281,5669,5670,5678,5694,5706,5718,5730,5742,5750,5763,5774,5779,5792,5801,5809,5817,5825,5833,5839,5845],{"__ignoreMap":77},[5671,5672,5674],"span",{"class":5673,"line":321},"line",[5671,5675,5677],{"class":5676},"sVt8B","{\n",[5671,5679,5680,5684,5687,5691],{"class":5673,"line":291},[5671,5681,5683],{"class":5682},"sj4cs","  \"@context\"",[5671,5685,5686],{"class":5676},": ",[5671,5688,5690],{"class":5689},"sZZnC","\"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\"",[5671,5692,5693],{"class":5676},",\n",[5671,5695,5696,5699,5701,5704],{"class":5673,"line":297},[5671,5697,5698],{"class":5682},"  \"@type\"",[5671,5700,5686],{"class":5676},[5671,5702,5703],{"class":5689},"\"Organization\"",[5671,5705,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5707,5708,5711,5713,5716],{"class":5673,"line":5047},[5671,5709,5710],{"class":5682},"  \"@id\"",[5671,5712,5686],{"class":5676},[5671,5714,5715],{"class":5689},"\"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002F#organization\"",[5671,5717,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5719,5720,5723,5725,5728],{"class":5673,"line":1887},[5671,5721,5722],{"class":5682},"  \"name\"",[5671,5724,5686],{"class":5676},[5671,5726,5727],{"class":5689},"\"MKG Marketing, Inc.\"",[5671,5729,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5731,5732,5735,5737,5740],{"class":5673,"line":4965},[5671,5733,5734],{"class":5682},"  \"url\"",[5671,5736,5686],{"class":5676},[5671,5738,5739],{"class":5689},"\"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002F\"",[5671,5741,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5743,5744,5747],{"class":5673,"line":4897},[5671,5745,5746],{"class":5682},"  \"logo\"",[5671,5748,5749],{"class":5676},": {\n",[5671,5751,5753,5756,5758,5761],{"class":5673,"line":5752},8,[5671,5754,5755],{"class":5682},"    \"@type\"",[5671,5757,5686],{"class":5676},[5671,5759,5760],{"class":5689},"\"ImageObject\"",[5671,5762,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5764,5766,5769,5771],{"class":5673,"line":5765},9,[5671,5767,5768],{"class":5682},"    \"url\"",[5671,5770,5686],{"class":5676},[5671,5772,5773],{"class":5689},"\"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fimages\u002Fmkg-logo.png\"\n",[5671,5775,5776],{"class":5673,"line":5011},[5671,5777,5778],{"class":5676},"  },\n",[5671,5780,5782,5785,5787,5790],{"class":5673,"line":5781},11,[5671,5783,5784],{"class":5682},"  \"description\"",[5671,5786,5686],{"class":5676},[5671,5788,5789],{"class":5689},"\"B2B digital marketing agency specializing in Search Visibility Optimization across SEO, AEO, and GEO.\"",[5671,5791,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5793,5795,5798],{"class":5673,"line":5794},12,[5671,5796,5797],{"class":5682},"  \"sameAs\"",[5671,5799,5800],{"class":5676},": [\n",[5671,5802,5804,5807],{"class":5673,"line":5803},13,[5671,5805,5806],{"class":5689},"    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fcompany\u002Fmkg-marketing\"",[5671,5808,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5810,5812,5815],{"class":5673,"line":5811},14,[5671,5813,5814],{"class":5689},"    \"https:\u002F\u002Ftwitter.com\u002Fmkgmarketinginc\"",[5671,5816,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5818,5820,5823],{"class":5673,"line":5819},15,[5671,5821,5822],{"class":5689},"    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.facebook.com\u002Fmkgmarketinginc\"",[5671,5824,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5826,5828,5831],{"class":5673,"line":5827},16,[5671,5829,5830],{"class":5689},"    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.instagram.com\u002Fmkgmarketinginc\"",[5671,5832,5693],{"class":5676},[5671,5834,5836],{"class":5673,"line":5835},17,[5671,5837,5838],{"class":5689},"    \"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.crunchbase.com\u002Forganization\u002Fmkg-marketing\"\n",[5671,5840,5842],{"class":5673,"line":5841},18,[5671,5843,5844],{"class":5676},"  ]\n",[5671,5846,5848],{"class":5673,"line":5847},19,[5671,5849,5850],{"class":5676},"}\n",[14,5852,5853],{},[52,5854,5855],{},"Schema by page type",[46,5857,5858,5877,5898,5911,5921,5934],{},[49,5859,5860,5872,5873,5876],{},[52,5861,5862,1258,5867],{},[206,5863,5866],{"href":5864,"rel":5865},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FTechArticle",[210],"TechArticle",[206,5868,5871],{"href":5869,"rel":5870},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FArticle",[210],"Article"," for blog posts and editorial content. Include ",[5281,5874,5875],{},"author"," markup — pages with verifiable authorship are treated differently in AI Overview candidate selection than anonymous or organization-attributed content.",[49,5878,5879,5891,5892,5360,5895,212],{},[52,5880,5881,1258,5886],{},[206,5882,5885],{"href":5883,"rel":5884},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FService",[210],"Service",[206,5887,5890],{"href":5888,"rel":5889},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FProduct",[210],"Product"," for solution and product pages. Include ",[5281,5893,5894],{},"description",[5281,5896,5897],{},"offers",[49,5899,5900,5907,5908],{},[52,5901,5902],{},[206,5903,5906],{"href":5904,"rel":5905},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FFAQPage",[210],"FAQPage"," for any section containing questions and answers. This explicitly marks Q&A pairs as structured, citable content units that help AI systems identify and extract answers from your pages. ",[38,5909,5910],{},"Note: As of May 2026, Google no longer generates FAQ rich results in search — the markup does not produce a visual enhancement in the SERP, but Google continues to use it for page understanding and AI response generation.",[49,5912,5913,5920],{},[52,5914,5915],{},[206,5916,5919],{"href":5917,"rel":5918},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FHowTo",[210],"HowTo"," for process-oriented content. Same logic as FAQPage for step-by-step queries.",[49,5922,5923,5930,5931,5933],{},[52,5924,5925],{},[206,5926,5929],{"href":5927,"rel":5928},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FPerson",[210],"Person"," for team bio pages. Include ",[5281,5932,5654],{}," pointing to each person's LinkedIn profile.",[49,5935,5936,5943],{},[52,5937,5938],{},[206,5939,5942],{"href":5940,"rel":5941},"https:\u002F\u002Fschema.org\u002FBreadcrumbList",[210],"BreadcrumbList"," on all page templates. This is the only schema type that directly modifies the search result display — replacing the raw URL with a readable path. It also communicates site hierarchy to crawlers, helping them understand the relationship between parent and child pages.",[14,5945,5946,5947,5952],{},"After implementation, validate every schema type with ",[206,5948,5951],{"href":5949,"rel":5950},"https:\u002F\u002Fsearch.google.com\u002Ftest\u002Frich-results",[210],"Google's Rich Results Test",". If the Rich Results Test cannot parse a schema block, AI Overview systems cannot use it either.",[5217,5954],{},[24,5956,5958],{"id":5957},"phase-3-the-prioritization-layer",[52,5959,5960],{},"Phase 3: The prioritization layer",[14,5962,5963],{},"Phases 1 and 2 ensure engines can find and understand the site. Phase 3 covers what you surface to them once they arrive.",[81,5965,5967],{"id":5966},"llmstxt",[52,5968,5969],{},"llms.txt",[14,5971,5972],{},[38,5973,5974,5975,5978,5979,5982,5983,5985],{},"A static text file served at ",[5281,5976,5977],{},"yourdomain.com\u002Fllms.txt"," with ",[5281,5980,5981],{},"Content-Type: text\u002Fplain",". No server-side code, no database dependency, no dynamic generation. Semantically equivalent to ",[5281,5984,5271],{}," in implementation complexity — it is a read hint for AI scrapers, not executable code.",[14,5987,5988,5990],{},[5281,5989,5969],{}," provides AI scrapers with a curated list of your most important public content. Without it, scrapers must infer priority from link structure and crawl frequency. With it, you control which pages they reach first.",[14,5992,5993,5994,5996],{},"Structure your ",[5281,5995,5969],{}," like this:",[5663,5998,6003],{"className":5999,"code":6001,"language":6002},[6000],"language-text","# Your Company Name\n\n> One sentence describing what you do and who you serve.\n\n## Documentation\n- [Product Docs Title](https:\u002F\u002Fyourdomain.com\u002Fdocs\u002F): Brief description.\n\n## Resources\n- [Guide Title](https:\u002F\u002Fyourdomain.com\u002Fresources\u002Fguide\u002F): What a reader learns from this.\n\n## Case Studies\n- [Client Result Title](https:\u002F\u002Fyourdomain.com\u002Fcase-studies\u002Fclient\u002F): The core outcome demonstrated.\n","text",[5281,6004,6001],{"__ignoreMap":77},[14,6006,6007],{},"Include your most authoritative technical content, original research, methodology pages, and case studies. Leave out generic pages that restate widely known information — AI models already have that content and will not prioritize citing it.",[81,6009,6011],{"id":6010},"answer-first-content-structure",[52,6012,6013],{},"Answer-first content structure",[14,6015,6016],{},[38,6017,6018],{},"Google AI Overviews extract answer content from a specific structural pattern: a direct, standalone response to the query in the first 40–60 words of a section, under a heading that matches the question format. Pages that bury the answer in paragraph three are not extracted regardless of their ranking position.",[14,6020,6021],{},"For every major solution page and pillar content piece:",[46,6023,6024,6027,6030,6033],{},[49,6025,6026],{},"H1 answers or closely mirrors the primary query the page targets",[49,6028,6029],{},"First paragraph after each H2 provides a complete, standalone answer — not a teaser",[49,6031,6032],{},"FAQ sections use real buyer questions",[49,6034,6035,6036,6045],{},"Definition pages lead with ",[38,6037,114,6038,6041,6042,114],{},[5671,6039,6040],{},"Term"," is ",[5671,6043,6044],{},"precise definition"," in the first sentence",[5217,6047],{},[24,6049,6051],{"id":6050},"phase-4-the-differentiation-layer",[52,6052,6053],{},"Phase 4: The differentiation layer",[14,6055,6056],{},[38,6057,6058],{},"This phase is for the marketing leader, not engineering. No implementation required — this is about what the content itself contains.",[14,6060,6061],{},"The technical infrastructure in Phases 1–3 determines whether engines can find and read your content. Phase 4 determines whether they cite you or a competitor.",[81,6063,6065],{"id":6064},"information-gain",[52,6066,6067],{},"Information gain",[14,6069,6070],{},"Every piece of content falls into one of two categories as far as an LLM is concerned.",[14,6072,6073,6076],{},[52,6074,6075],{},"Repackaged knowledge"," summarizes what is already in the model's training data. The model will paraphrase it or ignore it — citing a more authoritative source achieves the same result for the AI without attributing anything to you.",[14,6078,6079,6081],{},[52,6080,6067],{}," adds something the model cannot synthesize from existing data: a proprietary data point, a specific client outcome, a named methodology, a contrarian position backed by evidence. This content earns citations because the AI must attribute claims it cannot generate on its own.",[81,6083,6085],{"id":6084},"the-information-gain-audit",[52,6086,6087],{},"The information gain audit",[14,6089,6090,6091],{},"Before technical optimization, bring SMEs to a content review with one question: ",[38,6092,6093],{},"\"If an AI researcher asked Claude to summarize everything publicly known about this topic, does our page add anything new to that summary?\"",[14,6095,6096],{},"If not, add at least one of the following before the page goes into the technical pipeline:",[46,6098,6099,6113,6116,6119],{},[49,6100,6101,6102],{},"A data point from your own client work: ",[38,6103,6104,6105,6108,6109,6112],{},"\"Based on our analysis of ",[5671,6106,6107],{},"X"," companies over ",[5671,6110,6111],{},"Y"," period...\"",[49,6114,6115],{},"A specific, named case study outcome — mechanism and result, not category and vague improvement",[49,6117,6118],{},"A proprietary framework or methodology with a name that belongs to your company",[49,6120,6121],{},"A direct SME perspective that differs from the prevailing consensus",[5217,6123],{},[24,6125,6127],{"id":6126},"complete-implementation-checklist",[52,6128,6129],{},"Complete implementation checklist",[14,6131,6132],{},"Work top to bottom. Each layer depends on the one before it.",[81,6134,6136],{"id":6135},"foundation",[52,6137,6138],{},"Foundation",[46,6140,6143,6152,6160,6166,6175],{"className":6141},[6142],"contains-task-list",[49,6144,6147,6151],{"className":6145},[6146],"task-list-item",[6148,6149],"input",{"disabled":322,"type":6150},"checkbox"," XML sitemap exists, is current, and is submitted to Google Search Console and Bing Webmaster Tools",[49,6153,6155,1042,6157,6159],{"className":6154},[6146],[6148,6156],{"disabled":322,"type":6150},[5281,6158,5271],{}," audited — no wildcard Disallow rules that catch AI crawler user agents",[49,6161,6163,6165],{"className":6162},[6146],[6148,6164],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Canonical tags implemented on all duplicate, near-duplicate, and parameter-based URLs",[49,6167,6169,6171,6172],{"className":6168},[6146],[6148,6170],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Hreflang implemented correctly for all region\u002Flanguage variants ",[38,6173,6174],{},"(international sites only)",[49,6176,6178,6180],{"className":6177},[6146],[6148,6179],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Redirect audit complete — no chains longer than one hop, no loops",[81,6182,6184],{"id":6183},"access",[52,6185,6186],{},"Access",[46,6188,6190,6196,6202,6226],{"className":6189},[6142],[49,6191,6193,6195],{"className":6192},[6146],[6148,6194],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," GSC Coverage report reviewed — no unexplained \"Discovered — currently not indexed\" spikes",[49,6197,6199,6201],{"className":6198},[6146],[6148,6200],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," GSC URL Inspection run on key pages — View Crawled Page → HTML tab contains actual page content (not empty)",[49,6203,6205,6207,6208,1845,6210,1845,6212,1845,6214,1845,6216,1845,6218,1845,6220,1845,6222,1845,6224],{"className":6204},[6146],[6148,6206],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Web firewall allowlist includes: ",[5281,6209,5466],{},[5281,6211,5479],{},[5281,6213,5491],{},[5281,6215,5504],{},[5281,6217,5517],{},[5281,6219,5530],{},[5281,6221,5543],{},[5281,6223,5556],{},[5281,6225,5569],{},[49,6227,6229,6231,6232],{"className":6228},[6146],[6148,6230],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," IndexNow active and firing on publish — via API integration or Cloudflare Crawler Hints ",[38,6233,6234],{},"(faster Bing indexing = faster ChatGPT retrieval)",[81,6236,6238],{"id":6237},"understanding",[52,6239,6240],{},"Understanding",[46,6242,6244,6255,6269,6278,6288,6299,6307],{"className":6243},[6142],[49,6245,6247,1042,6249,6251,6252,6254],{"className":6246},[6146],[6148,6248],{"disabled":322,"type":6150},[5281,6250,5639],{}," schema includes ",[5281,6253,5654],{}," links to LinkedIn, G2, Crunchbase",[49,6256,6258,6260,6261,1258,6263,6265,6266,6268],{"className":6257},[6146],[6148,6259],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Blog posts and articles use ",[5281,6262,5866],{},[5281,6264,5871],{}," schema with ",[5281,6267,5875],{}," markup",[49,6270,6272,6274,6275,6277],{"className":6271},[6146],[6148,6273],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," FAQ sections use ",[5281,6276,5906],{}," schema",[49,6279,6281,6283,6284,1258,6286,6277],{"className":6280},[6146],[6148,6282],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Solution and product pages use ",[5281,6285,5885],{},[5281,6287,5890],{},[49,6289,6291,6293,6294,6265,6296,6298],{"className":6290},[6146],[6148,6292],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Team bio pages use ",[5281,6295,5929],{},[5281,6297,5654],{}," LinkedIn URLs",[49,6300,6302,6304,6305,6277],{"className":6301},[6146],[6148,6303],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," All page templates include ",[5281,6306,5942],{},[49,6308,6310,6312],{"className":6309},[6146],[6148,6311],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," All schema types validated via GSC Rich Results Test",[81,6314,6316],{"id":6315},"prioritization",[52,6317,6318],{},"Prioritization",[46,6320,6322,6332,6340],{"className":6321},[6142],[49,6323,6325,1042,6327,6329,6330],{"className":6324},[6146],[6148,6326],{"disabled":322,"type":6150},[5281,6328,5969],{}," exists and is publicly accessible at ",[5281,6331,5977],{},[49,6333,6335,1042,6337,6339],{"className":6334},[6146],[6148,6336],{"disabled":322,"type":6150},[5281,6338,5969],{}," lists 10–15 most authoritative public pages with descriptions",[49,6341,6343,6345],{"className":6342},[6146],[6148,6344],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Key solution pages lead with a direct answer in the first 40–60 words of each section",[81,6347,6349],{"id":6348},"differentiation",[52,6350,6351],{},"Differentiation",[46,6353,6355,6361],{"className":6354},[6142],[49,6356,6358,6360],{"className":6357},[6146],[6148,6359],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," Each pillar page contains at least one proprietary data point, named methodology, or specific case study outcome",[49,6362,6364,6366],{"className":6363},[6146],[6148,6365],{"disabled":322,"type":6150}," SMEs have reviewed high-priority pages for information gain before technical optimization",[5217,6368],{},[24,6370,6372],{"id":6371},"how-to-know-if-its-working",[52,6373,6374],{},"How to know if it's working",[14,6376,6377,6380],{},[52,6378,6379],{},"SEO (Google Search Console):"," Impressions and clicks for target queries, Rich Results status confirming valid enhanced markup, Coverage health showing no new excluded page spikes.",[14,6382,6383,6386],{},[52,6384,6385],{},"AEO:"," AI Overview appearances in GSC Performance data under \"Search type: AI Overviews.\" Featured snippet positions for question-format queries. An increase in impressions without a proportional increase in clicks often indicates AI Overviews are surfacing your content.",[14,6388,6389,6392],{},[52,6390,6391],{},"GEO:"," Run target queries in ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, and Gemini monthly and document whether you are cited. Third-party monitoring tools — Profound, Goodie AI, and AI Rank Lab — provide automated tracking. There is no equivalent of GSC for LLM citations yet.",[14,6394,6395],{},"If Phases 1–3 are implemented correctly: GSC Rich Results validation improves within weeks, AEO impressions increase within 60–90 days, GEO citation frequency becomes measurable within a quarter. Phase 4 — information gain — compounds over time as proprietary content gets ingested and attributed across training and retrieval datasets.",[5217,6397],{},[14,6399,6400],{},[38,6401,6402,6403,6407,6408,212],{},"For the strategic SVO framework across all three pillars, see ",[206,6404,6406],{"href":5213,"rel":6405},[210],"The Ultimate Guide to Search Visibility Optimization (SVO)",". For AEO-specific content and schema strategy, see ",[206,6409,6412],{"href":6410,"rel":6411},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fresources\u002Fwhat-is-aeo-answer-engine-optimization-a-complete-guide\u002F",[210],"What is AEO — A Complete Guide",[6414,6415,6416],"style",{},"html pre.shiki code .sVt8B, html code.shiki .sVt8B{--shiki-default:#24292E;--shiki-dark:#E1E4E8}html pre.shiki code .sj4cs, html code.shiki .sj4cs{--shiki-default:#005CC5;--shiki-dark:#79B8FF}html pre.shiki code .sZZnC, html code.shiki .sZZnC{--shiki-default:#032F62;--shiki-dark:#9ECBFF}html .default .shiki span {color: var(--shiki-default);background: var(--shiki-default-bg);font-style: var(--shiki-default-font-style);font-weight: var(--shiki-default-font-weight);text-decoration: var(--shiki-default-text-decoration);}html .shiki span {color: var(--shiki-default);background: var(--shiki-default-bg);font-style: var(--shiki-default-font-style);font-weight: var(--shiki-default-font-weight);text-decoration: var(--shiki-default-text-decoration);}html .dark .shiki span {color: var(--shiki-dark);background: var(--shiki-dark-bg);font-style: var(--shiki-dark-font-style);font-weight: var(--shiki-dark-font-weight);text-decoration: var(--shiki-dark-text-decoration);}html.dark .shiki span {color: var(--shiki-dark);background: var(--shiki-dark-bg);font-style: var(--shiki-dark-font-style);font-weight: var(--shiki-dark-font-weight);text-decoration: var(--shiki-dark-text-decoration);}",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":6418},[6419,6420,6426,6429,6433,6437,6444],{"id":5221,"depth":291,"text":5224},{"id":5238,"depth":291,"text":5241,"children":6421},[6422,6423,6424,6425],{"id":5247,"depth":297,"text":5250},{"id":5335,"depth":297,"text":5338},{"id":5428,"depth":297,"text":5431},{"id":5580,"depth":297,"text":5583},{"id":5605,"depth":291,"text":5608,"children":6427},[6428],{"id":5614,"depth":297,"text":5617},{"id":5957,"depth":291,"text":5960,"children":6430},[6431,6432],{"id":5966,"depth":297,"text":5969},{"id":6010,"depth":297,"text":6013},{"id":6050,"depth":291,"text":6053,"children":6434},[6435,6436],{"id":6064,"depth":297,"text":6067},{"id":6084,"depth":297,"text":6087},{"id":6126,"depth":291,"text":6129,"children":6438},[6439,6440,6441,6442,6443],{"id":6135,"depth":297,"text":6138},{"id":6183,"depth":297,"text":6186},{"id":6237,"depth":297,"text":6240},{"id":6315,"depth":297,"text":6318},{"id":6348,"depth":297,"text":6351},{"id":6371,"depth":291,"text":6374},"2026-05-07","The complete technical implementation guide for Search Visibility Optimization across SEO, AEO, and GEO. Built for marketing leaders to share directly with their engineering teams — every item includes the technical reason it matters.",99,{"_schema":1772,"indexTitle":5196,"indexImg":6449,"layout":77,"seotitle":6450},"\u002Fimages\u002Fresources\u002Fsvo-technical-guide-engineering-handshake.webp","The Technical SVO (Search Visibility Optimization) Guide | MKG Marketing","\u002Fresources\u002Fsvo-technical-guide-engineering-handshake",{"title":5196,"description":6446},"resources\u002Fsvo-technical-guide-engineering-handshake","9b4U_7F1tdybtH5cXY_AjG6JQqZY6p_nAyk70SmtsY0",{"id":6456,"title":6457,"body":6458,"category":7,"date":6888,"description":6889,"extension":318,"index":6890,"meta":6891,"navigation":322,"order":7,"path":6894,"seo":6895,"stem":6896,"updated":7,"__hash__":6897},"resources\u002Fresources\u002Fthe-ultimate-guide-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo.md","The Ultimate Guide to Search Visibility Optimization (SVO): Navigating SEO, AEO, and GEO",{"type":11,"value":6459,"toc":6859},[6460,6466,6472,6481,6487,6490,6493,6499,6502,6522,6528,6531,6537,6546,6552,6555,6566,6572,6575,6678,6684,6687,6693,6696,6716,6722,6725,6731,6737,6740,6746,6772,6778,6784,6787,6793,6796,6802,6805,6811,6814,6820,6823,6829,6832,6838,6841,6847,6850,6856],[14,6461,6462,6465],{},[52,6463,6464],{},"Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) is the strategic integration of traditional SEO, Answer Engine Optimization (AEO), and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) to ensure a brand appears wherever users seek information."," By unifying these disciplines, B2B tech companies move beyond simple rankings to capture authority across Google Search, AI chatbots, and LLMs like Gemini and Perplexity.",[24,6467,6469],{"id":6468},"what-is-search-visibility-optimization",[52,6470,6471],{},"What is Search Visibility Optimization?",[14,6473,6474,6475,6480],{},"Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) is a digital strategy that optimizes content for both traditional search engines and modern AI-driven generative engines. Unlike ",[206,6476,6479],{"href":6477,"rel":6478},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fexpert-digital-marketing-services\u002Fsearch-engine-optimization\u002F",[210],"traditional SEO",", which focuses primarily on lists of blue links, SVO ensures your brand is the cited authority in AI-generated summaries, featured snippets, and conversational chat interfaces.",[81,6482,6484],{"id":6483},"the-evolution-from-seo-to-svo",[52,6485,6486],{},"The evolution from SEO to SVO",[14,6488,6489],{},"For a decade, the goal was to rank on page one. However, the rise of searches where Google provides the answer directly on the results page changed the math. Today's marketing leaders face a fragmented landscape where audiences are not just using Google; they are asking Gemini for vendor comparisons and Perplexity for technical breakdowns.",[14,6491,6492],{},"SVO is the connective tissue that ensures your brand remains visible when the interface changes.",[81,6494,6496],{"id":6495},"why-b2b-tech-companies-need-an-svo-framework",[52,6497,6498],{},"Why B2B tech companies need an SVO framework",[14,6500,6501],{},"In the Series B–C growth stage, you cannot afford disconnected channels. SVO provides:",[46,6503,6504,6510,6516],{},[49,6505,6506,6509],{},[52,6507,6508],{},"Reduced Burnout:"," One high-quality pillar asset serves Google, ChatGPT, and LinkedIn simultaneously.",[49,6511,6512,6515],{},[52,6513,6514],{},"Strategic Clarity:"," Focuses efforts on citations and authority rather than just raw traffic.",[49,6517,6518,6521],{},[52,6519,6520],{},"Future-Proofing:"," Protects visibility against search engine algorithm shifts.",[24,6523,6525],{"id":6524},"understanding-the-three-pillars-seo-aeo-and-geo",[52,6526,6527],{},"Understanding the three pillars: SEO, AEO, and GEO",[14,6529,6530],{},"The three pillars of search visibility include Search Engine Optimization (SEO) for keyword rankings, Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) for featured snippets and voice search, and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) for Large Language Model (LLM) citations. Together, they create a comprehensive strategy that covers every stage of the modern buyer's journey.",[81,6532,6534],{"id":6533},"_1-search-engine-optimization-seo-the-foundation",[52,6535,6536],{},"1. Search Engine Optimization (SEO): The foundation",[14,6538,6539,6545],{},[206,6540,743],{"href":6541,"target":6542,"rel":6543},"\u002Fexpert-digital-marketing-services\u002Fsearch-engine-optimization\u002F","_blank",[6544],"noopener"," remains the bedrock of digital presence. It handles the technical infrastructure, site speed, and backlink profile that signal trust to all engines. For B2B tech, this means optimizing for high-intent queries. Without a technically sound site, AI engines will struggle to crawl and verify your data.",[81,6547,6549],{"id":6548},"_2-answer-engine-optimization-aeo-winning-the-snippet",[52,6550,6551],{},"2. Answer Engine Optimization (AEO): Winning the snippet",[14,6553,6554],{},"AEO focuses on providing immediate, structured answers to specific questions. Answer Engine Optimization is the practice of structuring content to satisfy the immediate need of a user, typically resulting in a featured snippet or top-of-page placement. To win at AEO, your content must use:",[46,6556,6557,6560,6563],{},[49,6558,6559],{},"Clear, concise headers.",[49,6561,6562],{},"The answer paragraph format.",[49,6564,6565],{},"Schema markup to define data types.",[81,6567,6569],{"id":6568},"_3-generative-engine-optimization-geo-influencing-the-llm",[52,6570,6571],{},"3. Generative Engine Optimization (GEO): Influencing the LLM",[14,6573,6574],{},"GEO involves optimizing content specifically to be cited by generative AI like Gemini, ChatGPT, and Perplexity. GEO is the process of increasing a brand's presence within AI-generated responses by providing high-information-gain content and verifiable facts.",[717,6576,6577],{},[736,6578,6579,6606,6630,6654],{},[723,6580,6581,6588,6594,6600],{},[741,6582,6583],{},[14,6584,6585],{},[52,6586,6587],{},"Feature",[741,6589,6590],{},[14,6591,6592],{},[52,6593,743],{},[741,6595,6596],{},[14,6597,6598],{},[52,6599,754],{},[741,6601,6602],{},[14,6603,6604],{},[52,6605,765],{},[723,6607,6608,6615,6620,6625],{},[741,6609,6610],{},[14,6611,6612],{},[52,6613,6614],{},"Primary Goal",[741,6616,6617],{},[14,6618,6619],{},"Rank in Top 10",[741,6621,6622],{},[14,6623,6624],{},"Win Featured Snippet",[741,6626,6627],{},[14,6628,6629],{},"Get cited in AI Chat",[723,6631,6632,6639,6644,6649],{},[741,6633,6634],{},[14,6635,6636],{},[52,6637,6638],{},"Format",[741,6640,6641],{},[14,6642,6643],{},"Long-form articles",[741,6645,6646],{},[14,6647,6648],{},"Q&A, Lists, Definitions",[741,6650,6651],{},[14,6652,6653],{},"Data-rich, Narrative",[723,6655,6656,6663,6668,6673],{},[741,6657,6658],{},[14,6659,6660],{},[52,6661,6662],{},"Success Metric",[741,6664,6665],{},[14,6666,6667],{},"Click-Through Rate (CTR)",[741,6669,6670],{},[14,6671,6672],{},"Impressions\u002FDirect Answer",[741,6674,6675],{},[14,6676,6677],{},"Citation Count \u002F Sentiment",[24,6679,6681],{"id":6680},"how-to-build-an-svo-strategy-for-b2b-tech",[52,6682,6683],{},"How to build an SVO strategy for B2B tech",[14,6685,6686],{},"Building an SVO strategy involves auditing existing SEO assets, identifying the clusters of questions your audience asks, and reformatting content into modular blocks that AI engines can easily ingest. By prioritizing information gain—the inclusion of unique data or insights not found elsewhere—you ensure your content is chosen over generic competitors.",[81,6688,6690],{"id":6689},"identifying-information-gain-opportunities",[52,6691,6692],{},"Identifying information gain opportunities",[14,6694,6695],{},"AI engines are trained to ignore redundancy. To be cited, you must provide value an LLM cannot recreate on its own:",[46,6697,6698,6704,6710],{},[49,6699,6700,6703],{},[52,6701,6702],{},"Include proprietary data:"," Use anonymized data from your own platform to show trends.",[49,6705,6706,6709],{},[52,6707,6708],{},"Counter-intuitive insights:"," Challenge common industry myths.",[49,6711,6712,6715],{},[52,6713,6714],{},"Case study depth:"," Explain the specific technical friction you resolved rather than just stating broad results.",[81,6717,6719],{"id":6718},"modular-content-design",[52,6720,6721],{},"Modular content design",[14,6723,6724],{},"Avoid long walls of text. Instead, build your pages as a series of modular knowledge blocks. Each section should be able to stand alone. If a user or an AI only reads one section, they should still walk away with a complete, actionable insight.",[14,6726,6727,6730],{},[52,6728,6729],{},"SVO Strategy:"," Use Schema.org markup for software features, pricing, and organizational details to give AI engines a structured map of your brand.",[24,6732,6734],{"id":6733},"measuring-success-in-the-svo-era",[52,6735,6736],{},"Measuring success in the SVO era",[14,6738,6739],{},"Success in SVO is measured through a combination of traditional organic traffic, share of model, and the frequency of appearing in AI-generated responses. Brands should track how often they appear in Google's AI Overviews and monitor their citation frequency within tools like Perplexity.",[81,6741,6743],{"id":6742},"key-performance-indicators-kpis-for-svo",[52,6744,6745],{},"Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) for SVO",[46,6747,6748,6754,6760,6766],{},[49,6749,6750,6753],{},[52,6751,6752],{},"Brand Citation Share:"," How often your brand is mentioned in AI summaries for your category.",[49,6755,6756,6759],{},[52,6757,6758],{},"Featured Snippet Retention:"," The percentage of high-volume questions where you own the answer box.",[49,6761,6762,6765],{},[52,6763,6764],{},"Referral Traffic from AI:"," Clicks originating from sources cited in generative engines.",[49,6767,6768,6771],{},[52,6769,6770],{},"Technical Health:"," Ensuring all critical pages are indexable and structured for AI.",[24,6773,6775],{"id":6774},"frequently-asked-questions-faq",[52,6776,6777],{},"Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)",[81,6779,6781],{"id":6780},"is-seo-being-replaced-by-aeo-and-geo",[52,6782,6783],{},"Is SEO being replaced by AEO and GEO?",[14,6785,6786],{},"No, SEO is not being replaced; it is evolving. SEO provides the technical foundation and authority (backlinks) that AEO and GEO rely on to verify information. Think of SEO as the library's filing system and AEO\u002FGEO as the librarian who pulls the specific page for the user.",[81,6788,6790],{"id":6789},"what-is-the-answer-paragraph-and-why-is-it-important",[52,6791,6792],{},"What is the \"Answer Paragraph\" and why is it important?",[14,6794,6795],{},"The Answer Paragraph is a 40–60 word summary placed immediately under a heading to provide a direct answer to a specific question. It is important because search engines use these blocks to populate featured snippets, and AI engines use them as \"concise truths\" to include in generative responses.",[81,6797,6799],{"id":6798},"how-does-svo-help-with-b2b-lead-generation",[52,6800,6801],{},"How does SVO help with B2B lead generation?",[14,6803,6804],{},"SVO targets the \"Zero-Click\" researcher who wants immediate answers during the discovery phase. By being the brand that provides the best answer, you build trust and authority before the prospect even clicks your site, leading to higher-quality leads when they finally do engage.",[81,6806,6808],{"id":6807},"can-i-do-svo-without-a-huge-marketing-team",[52,6809,6810],{},"Can I do SVO without a huge marketing team?",[14,6812,6813],{},"Yes, SVO is actually more efficient for lean teams. Instead of chasing a high volume of keywords, you focus on high-authority \"Pillar Pages\" that satisfy multiple engines at once. It's about \"working smarter\" by creating modular content that serves SEO, AEO, and GEO simultaneously.",[81,6815,6817],{"id":6816},"what-is-information-gain-in-the-context-of-svo",[52,6818,6819],{},"What is \"Information Gain\" in the context of SVO?",[14,6821,6822],{},"Information Gain is a measure of how much new information a piece of content adds to the existing pool of knowledge on a topic. AI engines prioritize content that offers unique data, original perspectives, or specific case studies over content that simply rehashes what has already been written.",[81,6824,6826],{"id":6825},"how-do-i-optimize-for-perplexity-and-gemini",[52,6827,6828],{},"How do I optimize for Perplexity and Gemini?",[14,6830,6831],{},"To optimize for Perplexity and Gemini, you must focus on GEO (Generative Engine Optimization). This includes using structured data, citing reputable sources, providing clear \"Entity\" definitions (who you are and what you do), and ensuring your content is factually dense and easy for an LLM to parse.",[81,6833,6835],{"id":6834},"does-svo-require-a-specific-type-of-website-technical-setup",[52,6836,6837],{},"Does SVO require a specific type of website technical setup?",[14,6839,6840],{},"SVO requires a \"clean\" technical setup, including fast load times, mobile responsiveness, and—most importantly—proper Schema.org markup. This structured data helps AI engines understand the context of your content, such as whether a string of numbers is a price, a date, or a statistic.",[81,6842,6844],{"id":6843},"how-often-should-i-update-my-svo-pillar-pages",[52,6845,6846],{},"How often should I update my SVO pillar pages?",[14,6848,6849],{},"Because the \"search visibility\" landscape changes rapidly, you should review your pillar pages quarterly. Update them with new data, check if AI engines are still citing the sections, and ensure your \"Answer Paragraphs\" are still the most accurate summaries available.",[81,6851,6853],{"id":6852},"what-is-the-difference-between-svo-and-traditional-digital-pr",[52,6854,6855],{},"What is the difference between SVO and traditional digital PR?",[14,6857,6858],{},"While digital PR focuses on mentions in the media, SVO focuses on mentions in search and answer engines. 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