[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":4079},["ShallowReactive",2],{"header-articles":3,"events-index":1469,"updatesSection-all":2764,"updatesSection-all-team":3340},[4,327,590,906,1147],{"id":5,"title":6,"author":7,"authors":8,"body":10,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":316,"description":317,"extension":318,"img":319,"imgAlt":6,"meta":320,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":323,"seo":324,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":325,"updated":7,"__hash__":326},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fwhy-you-should-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search-results.md","Why You Should Monitor Brand Mentions in AI Search Results",null,[9],"Kerry Guard",{"type":11,"value":12,"toc":290},"minimark",[13,17,20,23,28,31,34,42,45,68,72,80,88,91,95,98,102,105,110,118,124,128,131,156,160,174,178,181,185,188,192,195,199,202,213,217,220,224,227,231,234,238,244,247,250,254],[14,15,16],"p",{},"Right now, AI search engines are talking about your software company. Whether you track it or not, platforms like ChatGPT Search, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews answer questions every single day about your product capabilities, pricing, and market reputation. B2B software buyers use these tools to build shortlists, compare technical features, and make buying decisions before ever clicking through to a vendor's website.",[14,18,19],{},"If you rely on old brand-monitoring tools, you are running blind. Traditional monitoring platforms track static web pages, social media tags, and news mentions. They cannot show you what a buyer sees inside a conversational AI search box.",[14,21,22],{},"Unlike traditional Google search, where a website's ranking and content stay relatively consistent from day to day, AI-generated responses are dynamic. They synthesize information on the fly from across the web. Without an active monitoring strategy, inaccurate product claims, outdated pricing, or heavy competitor recommendations can quietly slip into AI responses without your knowledge, pulling qualified leads out of your pipeline before you even know they exist.",[24,25,27],"h2",{"id":26},"the-dynamic-reality-of-ai-search-results","The Dynamic Reality of AI Search Results",[14,29,30],{},"To understand why monitoring AI brand mentions requires a new approach, consider how AI search engines differ from traditional search directories.",[14,32,33],{},"In a traditional search model, Google crawls a page, indexes the text, and displays a link. If your page ranks third for a keyword, it generally stays near that spot until an algorithm update or a content change occurs.",[14,35,36,37,41],{},"AI search engines work differently. When a prospective customer prompts an AI tool—asking, for example, ",[38,39,40],"em",{},"\"What are the best enterprise cloud security platforms for healthcare compliance?\"","—the underlying Large Language Model (LLM) retrieves information from dozens of real-time sources, synthesizes the facts, and writes a unique response.",[14,43,44],{},"Because these responses are generated in real time, the way an AI engine describes your brand can shift based on:",[46,47,48,56,62],"ul",{},[49,50,51,55],"li",{},[52,53,54],"strong",{},"New Web Scrapes:"," A fresh review, a Reddit discussion thread, or an updated competitor blog post can instantly alter how the AI summarizes your company.",[49,57,58,61],{},[52,59,60],{},"Prompt Variations:"," Slight changes in how a user words a query can lead the AI to pull from entirely different data sources.",[49,63,64,67],{},[52,65,66],{},"Model Updates:"," As platforms update their underlying LLMs, the sources they trust and cite shift continuously.",[24,69,71],{"id":70},"the-risks-of-unmonitored-ai-brand-mentions","The Risks of Unmonitored AI Brand Mentions",[14,73,74,79],{},[75,76],"img",{"alt":77,"src":78},"","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F378276c5-b933-4eed-8804-a96958aabcdf-why-you-should-monitor-image-1.webp","When you leave your AI presence to chance without monitoring what these engines say, you’re gambling with your brand equity, and small inaccuracies turn into major business risks.",[81,82,84,87],"h3",{"id":83},"_1-hallucinated-features-and-misattributed-limitations",[52,85,86],{},"1. Hallucina","ted Features and Misattributed Limitations",[14,89,90],{},"AI engines occasionally \"hallucinate\": presenting incorrect details with absolute authority. An AI search tool might state that your software lacks a key integration, charges hidden fees, or only supports small businesses when you actually target enterprise accounts. If a buyer reads that hallucinated summary, they may drop your company from their consideration set without ever contacting your sales team.",[81,92,94],{"id":93},"_2-competitor-hijacking","2. Competitor Hijacking",[14,96,97],{},"If your competitors actively optimize their web presence for generative search while your brand stays passive, AI engines will default to recommending your competitors. When buyers ask AI tools to compare your product against a competitor, an unmonitored response might highlight your rival's strengths while summarizing outdated or inaccurate criticisms of your platform.",[81,99,101],{"id":100},"_3-loss-of-narrative-control","3. Loss of Narrative Control",[14,103,104],{},"In B2B tech, your positioning is everything. If an AI search engine pulls its understanding of your brand from outdated PR releases, informal forum threads, or low-authority review sites, your core value proposition gets diluted. You lose control over how your product is framed during the buyer's research phase.",[14,106,107],{},[52,108,109],{},"Expert Insight from MKG Marketing:",[14,111,112,115,116],{},[38,113,114],{},"\"","Designers often say \"This website speaks more to LLMs than human beings.\" To that I say, \"Good. That's step one.\" Step one: be findable by answer engines. Humans will end up there after they search for the problem. Step two: optimize for the human experience once they arrive. Right now most teams are still trying to optimize for both at the same time, which means they optimize for neither.The order matters. Findable first. Usable second.",[38,117,114],{},[14,119,120,121,123],{},"— ",[52,122,9],{},", Founder & CEO at MKG Marketing",[24,125,127],{"id":126},"why-manual-spot-checks-arent-enough","Why Manual Spot-Checks Aren't Enough",[14,129,130],{},"Many marketing teams attempt to solve this problem by occasionally typing their company name into ChatGPT or Perplexity to see what comes up. While spot-checking is a natural first step, it fails as a long-term business strategy for three reasons:",[132,133,134,140,150],"ol",{},[49,135,136,139],{},[52,137,138],{},"Personalized and Location-Based Bias:"," AI search tools tailor responses based on user location, session history, and account settings. What you see on your desktop in an office is rarely identical to what a buyer sees in another region.",[49,141,142,145,146,149],{},[52,143,144],{},"Infinite Query Permutations:"," Buyers don't just type your brand name. They ask complex, long-tail questions like ",[38,147,148],{},"\"How long does it take to implement [Company Name] compared to [Competitor]?\""," Manual checks cannot cover the hundreds of ways prospects ask about your category.",[49,151,152,155],{},[52,153,154],{},"Lack of Historical Tracking:"," Spot-checks give you a single snapshot in time. They don't track trends, measure whether your citation share is growing, or alert you when an inaccurate claim enters the AI's data pool.",[24,157,159],{"id":158},"how-to-build-a-systematic-strategy-the-best-ways-to-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search","How to Build a Systematic Strategy: The Best Ways to Monitor Brand Mentions in AI Search",[14,161,162,165,166,169,170,173],{},[75,163],{"alt":77,"src":164},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F4c47ce7e-784c-46ee-bd33-f4ff8fd72368-why-you-should-monitor-image-2.webp","Protecting your company’s digital footprint requires shifting from manual testing to a structured ",[52,167,168],{},"Search Visibility Optimization (SVO)"," framework. Establishing effective ",[52,171,172],{},"brand monitoring across ai search engines"," involves four operational steps:",[81,175,177],{"id":176},"step-1-identify-high-intent-buyer-prompts","Step 1: Identify High-Intent Buyer Prompts",[14,179,180],{},"Brainstorm the exact questions your ideal prospects ask during their evaluation phase. Move beyond simple brand searches to focus on category comparisons, feature queries, and implementation questions.",[81,182,184],{"id":183},"step-2-map-your-citation-share-across-key-ai-platforms","Step 2: Map Your \"Citation Share\" Across Key AI Platforms",[14,186,187],{},"Track how frequently AI tools cite your site compared to competitors across platforms like ChatGPT Search, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews. Note which specific URLs the AI uses as references when it mentions your brand.",[81,189,191],{"id":190},"step-3-correct-the-source-data","Step 3: Correct the Source Data",[14,193,194],{},"When you identify inaccurate AI claims, trace where the model pulled the information. AI engines often pull from third-party review sites, developer documentation, or outdated press releases. Updating those primary sources corrects the data that the AI scrapes and cites.",[81,196,198],{"id":197},"step-4-measure-svo-metrics-alongside-traditional-seo","Step 4: Measure SVO Metrics Alongside Traditional SEO",[14,200,201],{},"Expand your reporting dashboard. Along with measuring traditional website traffic and organic keyword rankings, track your brand's citation growth, AI Overview inclusion rate, and direct-traffic conversions.",[14,203,204,205,212],{},"To see how modern search strategies connect directly to pipeline, explore our comprehensive",[206,207,211],"a",{"href":208,"rel":209},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fexpert-digital-marketing-services\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization\u002F",[210],"nofollow"," Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) services",".",[24,214,216],{"id":215},"supporting-ai-visibility-with-paid-and-analytics-channels","Supporting AI Visibility with Paid and Analytics Channels",[14,218,219],{},"Brand monitoring in AI search provides the insights you need to protect your reputation, but driving consistent revenue requires integrating those insights across your entire marketing stack.",[81,221,223],{"id":222},"reinforcing-visibility-with-targeted-ads","Reinforcing Visibility with Targeted Ads",[14,225,226],{},"When you notice an AI search engine frequently recommending a competitor for a specific high-value query, you can immediately bridge the gap using targeted paid channels. Pairing your organic optimizations with focused digital advertising ensures your software maintains top-of-page visibility while you update and strengthen your organic source content.",[81,228,230],{"id":229},"measuring-real-world-lead-attribution","Measuring Real-World Lead Attribution",[14,232,233],{},"Because buyers often read an AI response and navigate directly to your site later, traditional click-tracking can misattribute those leads as \"Direct\" or \"Organic Brand\" search. Utilizing modern digital analytics allows you to cross-reference offline CRM data, self-reported attribution, and site activity to confirm how AI search visibility influences actual pipeline velocity.",[24,235,237],{"id":236},"summary-protecting-your-brands-digital-reputation","Summary: Protecting Your Brand's Digital Reputation",[14,239,240,243],{},[75,241],{"alt":77,"src":242},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fbfa7aa92-037c-4f2c-8afb-5045bf32ffbc-why-you-should-monitor-image-3.webp","Monitoring your brand in AI search results is no longer optional—it is a critical requirement to protect your reputation, maintain narrative control, and secure your lead pipeline. As conversational engines continue to replace traditional search lists, tech companies that passively ignore their AI mentions risk losing market share to competitors who actively manage their generative presence.",[14,245,246],{},"Establishing a reliable monitoring framework requires dedicated expertise, systematic tracking tools, and continuous iteration.",[14,248,249],{},"At MKG Marketing, we remove the complexity. We provide an experienced, senior-level team that builds and executes your search visibility strategy directly—with no junior handoffs or black-box reporting. We help B2B software and technology companies monitor their digital presence, correct inaccurate AI citations, and convert organic visibility into predictable revenue.",[81,251,253],{"id":252},"protect-and-scale-your-ai-search-visibility","Protect and Scale Your AI Search Visibility",[46,255,256,267,279],{},[49,257,258,261,262,266],{},[52,259,260],{},"Curious how search engines and AI models actually see your brand?"," Our senior-led team breaks down your real-time visibility across AI platforms—no black-box mysteries, just clear data.",[206,263,265],{"href":208,"rel":264},[210]," Explore our Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services"," or book an initial search strategy review.",[49,268,269,272,273,278],{},[52,270,271],{},"Noticing a sudden shift in your traffic or search presence?"," We’re always down to talk strategy and help you make sense of the noise. ",[206,274,277],{"href":275,"rel":276},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fcontact\u002F",[210],"Contact the MKG Marketing team directly"," to schedule a consultation.",[49,280,281,284,285,212],{},[52,282,283],{},"Want to peek under the hood of machine learning?"," Dive into our guide:",[206,286,289],{"href":287,"rel":288},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote\u002F",[210]," AI Search Visibility Ranking Factors 2026: How Machines Decide Who to Quote",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":292},2,[293,294,301,302,308,312],{"id":26,"depth":291,"text":27},{"id":70,"depth":291,"text":71,"children":295},[296,299,300],{"id":83,"depth":297,"text":298},3,"1. Hallucinated Features and Misattributed Limitations",{"id":93,"depth":297,"text":94},{"id":100,"depth":297,"text":101},{"id":126,"depth":291,"text":127},{"id":158,"depth":291,"text":159,"children":303},[304,305,306,307],{"id":176,"depth":297,"text":177},{"id":183,"depth":297,"text":184},{"id":190,"depth":297,"text":191},{"id":197,"depth":297,"text":198},{"id":215,"depth":291,"text":216,"children":309},[310,311],{"id":222,"depth":297,"text":223},{"id":229,"depth":297,"text":230},{"id":236,"depth":291,"text":237,"children":313},[314],{"id":252,"depth":297,"text":253},"seo","2026-08-19T16:01:29.475Z","Why track what ChatGPT and Google say about you? Learn why monitoring brand mentions in AI search results is vital to protect your software company's leads.","md","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F3c12c34c-ad32-459d-b38c-32bc49abb722-why-you-should-monitor-hero-image.webp",{},1,true,"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fwhy-you-should-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search-results",{"title":6,"description":317},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fwhy-you-should-monitor-brand-mentions-in-ai-search-results","-Ozc8xN-BQ2k9giEa4PQdczQMGk8Eg63yFUKh-ezjGw",{"id":328,"title":329,"author":7,"authors":330,"body":331,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":581,"description":582,"extension":318,"img":583,"imgAlt":584,"meta":585,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":586,"seo":587,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":588,"updated":7,"__hash__":589},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote.md","AI Search Visibility Ranking Factors 2026 - How Machines Decide Who to Quote",[9],{"type":11,"value":332,"toc":566},[333,336,339,342,346,353,379,386,389,393,396,399,410,414,417,420,440,444,447,450,454,461,464,468,471,475,478,482,487,492,497,501,504,509,512,517,520,525,529,532,535,539],[14,334,335],{},"In 2026, the old playbook for getting found online just doesn't hit the same. Modern B2B buyers aren't scrolling through pages of blue links anymore. Instead, they’re going straight to tools like ChatGPT Search, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews to compare software features, stack up vendors, and build their shortlists in seconds.",[14,337,338],{},"Here’s the thing: AI engines don’t read websites the way traditional search crawlers used to. Old-school crawlers were all about keyword density, backlink totals, and meta tags to index pages in a directory. But large language models (LLMs) and retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) systems look at the bigger picture. They care about how your information is structured, verified, and contextualized.",[14,340,341],{},"If your tech brand isn't formatted for machine readability, your website essentially becomes invisible to the very engines your buyers rely on every single day.",[24,343,345],{"id":344},"how-ai-search-engines-select-sources-in-2026","How AI Search Engines Select Sources in 2026",[14,347,348,349,352],{},"To understand how your brand gets quoted or recommended by AI, it helps to look at what happens behind the scenes. When a user enters a complex prompt, such as ",[38,350,351],{},"\"What are the top enterprise cybersecurity platforms for multi-cloud compliance?\",","  an AI search engine processes the request through four specific steps:",[132,354,355,361,367,373],{},[49,356,357,360],{},[52,358,359],{},"Deconstructing the Prompt:"," The system breaks the question down to identify the core subject, key concepts, and what the user is actually trying to accomplish.",[49,362,363,366],{},[52,364,365],{},"Retrieving Relevant Data:"," Rather than pulling up a list of web addresses based on exact keywords, the engine searches its database for content that semantically matches those underlying concepts.",[49,368,369,372],{},[52,370,371],{},"Evaluating Content Structure and Source Authority:"," The system analyzes potential sources. It checks whether the text is clearly formatted, whether the facts match other reliable references, and whether the publishing site demonstrates real-world authority on the subject.",[49,374,375,378],{},[52,376,377],{},"Synthesizing the Answer and Linking Sources:"," The engine extracts direct passages from the top-rated sources, writes a unified response, and attaches clickable links so the user can verify where the information came from.",[24,380,382,385],{"id":381},"the-core-2026-ai-search-visibility-ranking-factors",[75,383],{"alt":77,"src":384},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fee360449-da4d-4dfe-a8b0-4ac440db5ad4-ai-visibility-1.png","The Core 2026 AI Search Visibility Ranking Factors",[14,387,388],{},"Based on industry observations and current AI search visibility benchmarks for 2026, AI search algorithms look at six critical factors when deciding which sources deserve a quote:",[81,390,392],{"id":391},"_1-information-gain-and-uniqueness","1. Information Gain and Uniqueness",[14,394,395],{},"AI engines exist to synthesize what's already out there. If your article just repeats the same generic overview that ten other websites published, an LLM has zero reason to cite your brand. Information Gain measures how much new, non-redundant value a page brings to the table.",[14,397,398],{},"To score high here, your content needs:",[46,400,401,404,407],{},[49,402,403],{},"Proprietary research, benchmark surveys, and original data.",[49,405,406],{},"Direct commentary from verified subject matter experts.",[49,408,409],{},"Real-world implementation metrics and detailed technical breakdowns.",[81,411,413],{"id":412},"_2-machine-readable-content-formatting-semantic-chunking","2. Machine-Readable Content Formatting (Semantic Chunking)",[14,415,416],{},"LLMs process web pages in \"chunks\" rather than reading articles sequentially from start to finish. If your key insights are buried inside massive walls of text with generic subheadings, the retrieval model is going to miss the context entirely.",[14,418,419],{},"Winning sites use explicit, machine-readable formatting:",[46,421,422,428,434],{},[49,423,424,427],{},[52,425,426],{},"Question-and-Answer Headers:"," Use direct H2 and H3 subheadings that mirror natural-language user queries.",[49,429,430,433],{},[52,431,432],{},"Bottom-Line-First Declarations:"," State the direct answer or main takeaway in the very first sentence beneath a heading before diving into the details.",[49,435,436,439],{},[52,437,438],{},"Clean Data Tables and Lists:"," Present technical comparisons, feature breakdowns, and numerical data using structured HTML tables and bulleted lists.",[81,441,443],{"id":442},"_3-entity-consistency-and-schema-markup","3. Entity Consistency and Schema Markup",[14,445,446],{},"AI search engines build vast knowledge graphs of \"entities\" (companies, products, executives, and concepts). For an engine to confidently recommend your SaaS platform, it has to verify that your brand is a recognized, trusted entity in your category.",[14,448,449],{},"Implementing detailed JSON-LD Schema markup, including Organization, SoftwareApplication, Article, and FAQPage schemas, gives search engines clear, explicit data about what you offer. When your on-page Schema matches external mentions across review platforms, news outlets, and industry databases, the LLM’s confidence score goes way up.",[81,451,453],{"id":452},"_4-technical-answer-density","4. Technical Answer Density",[14,455,456,457,460],{},"Answer density is all about the concentration of real, factual value relative to your total word count. Unedited AI fluff—filled with generic intros like ",[38,458,459],{},"\"In today's fast-paced digital world...\"","—completely dilutes your message.",[14,462,463],{},"In 2026, AI retrieval systems favor high-density content that delivers precise technical facts, clear definitions, and actionable steps without any extra noise.",[81,465,467],{"id":466},"_5-multi-source-digital-co-citations","5. Multi-Source Digital Co-Citations",[14,469,470],{},"An LLM rarely relies on a single web page to build an answer, it cross-references multiple sources to verify facts. If your platform is mentioned with positive sentiment across third-party review sites, developer forums, PR releases, and partner docs, generative engines see your site as an authoritative industry reference.",[81,472,474],{"id":473},"_6-demonstrable-e-e-a-t-signals","6. Demonstrable E-E-A-T Signals",[14,476,477],{},"Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness (E-E-A-T) are as foundational as ever. AI engines actively look for proof that a real human with hands-on experience created or reviewed the content. Explicit author bios linked to verified LinkedIn profiles, direct quotes from company leaders, and clear links to primary sources all reinforce your site's trust score.",[14,479,480],{},[52,481,109],{},[14,483,484],{},[38,485,486],{},"\"Understanding these technical AI ranking factors is essential for tech brands today. AI engines don't read content for entertainment—they crawl websites looking for structured facts they can instantly trust and quote. Structuring your site for machine readability isn't just an optimization tactic; it is the only way to protect your digital footprint and ensure your software stays on your buyers' shortlists as traditional search continues to evolve.\"",[14,488,120,489,491],{},[52,490,9],{},", Founder & CEO of MKG Marketing",[14,493,494],{},[75,495],{"alt":77,"src":496},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F76a1ca67-794d-4085-afd3-68d0afbbb963-ai-visibility-2.png",[24,498,500],{"id":499},"combining-technical-ai-formatting-with-a-full-funnel-growth-strategy","Combining Technical AI Formatting with a Full-Funnel Growth Strategy",[14,502,503],{},"Appearing in AI search answers is a critical first step, but visibility alone does not close enterprise software deals. To convert that visibility into actual sales pipeline, tech companies need to connect their organic search efforts with paid channels and accurate tracking.",[14,505,506],{},[52,507,508],{},"Combining Organic and Paid Reach",[14,510,511],{},"When an AI engine routinely quotes your brand as an industry authority, buyers build trust before they ever speak with your sales team. Companies can build on that momentum by pairing organic optimizations with targeted digital advertising. Running paid campaigns aimed at accounts searching for your software category ensures your brand stays visible in both sponsored ads and generated AI responses.",[14,513,514],{},[52,515,516],{},"Tracking Real-World Influence",[14,518,519],{},"Because AI Overviews often answer questions directly on the screen, traditional \"last-click\" measurement tools no longer tell the full story. Using modern digital analytics allows marketing teams to track direct site traffic, self-reported source data, and sales cycle speed. This gives leadership a clear view of how search visibility actually drives revenue.",[14,521,522],{},[75,523],{"alt":77,"src":524},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F221ea7d6-aa63-4d37-a9dd-78f35fdc9bf6-ai-visibility-3.png",[24,526,528],{"id":527},"future-proofing-your-brand-for-ai-search","Future-Proofing Your Brand for AI Search",[14,530,531],{},"Winning visibility in modern AI search comes down to three practical elements: clear site structure, verified real-world expertise, and a consistent presence across the web. As AI tools change how people research software, relying solely on old keyword-stuffing tactics will cause your brand to fall behind.",[14,533,534],{},"At MKG Marketing, we specialize in helping B2B software and cybersecurity organizations navigate these complex search shifts. Our flat, senior-led structure means you work directly with experienced digital strategists, never junior handoffs. We deploy our unified Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) framework to ensure your website is structured for machine readability, citable by leading AI tools, and built to drive qualified sales pipeline.",[81,536,538],{"id":537},"take-control-of-your-ai-search-visibility","Take Control of Your AI Search Visibility",[46,540,541,550,558],{},[49,542,543,544,549],{},"Ready to see how AI search engines view your website? Explore our",[206,545,548],{"href":546,"rel":547},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fexpert-digital-marketing-services\u002F",[210]," Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services"," or schedule an initial search strategy review with our senior team.",[49,551,552,553,557],{},"Have questions about your site's technical structure or recent traffic changes?",[206,554,556],{"href":275,"rel":555},[210]," Contact MKG Marketing directly"," to speak with a digital search expert.",[49,559,560,561,212],{},"Want to learn more about the shift from traditional SEO to answer engine optimization? Read our guide on",[206,562,565],{"href":563,"rel":564},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo\u002F",[210]," AI Search vs Traditional Search: Navigating the Shift to SVO",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":567},[568,569,577,578],{"id":344,"depth":291,"text":345},{"id":381,"depth":291,"text":385,"children":570},[571,572,573,574,575,576],{"id":391,"depth":297,"text":392},{"id":412,"depth":297,"text":413},{"id":442,"depth":297,"text":443},{"id":452,"depth":297,"text":453},{"id":466,"depth":297,"text":467},{"id":473,"depth":297,"text":474},{"id":499,"depth":291,"text":500},{"id":527,"depth":291,"text":528,"children":579},[580],{"id":537,"depth":297,"text":538},"2026-08-11T17:38:25.303Z","How do AI engines choose which websites to quote? Discover the core AI search ranking factors for 2026 and how to get your brand cited.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Ff37f521d-b3f6-49bb-8b34-f6ddf2fa1770-mkg-blog-ai-search-visibility-ranking-factors.webp","AI Search Visibility Factors 2026",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote",{"title":329,"description":582},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-visibility-ranking-factors-2026-how-machines-decide-who-to-quote","GHGZ8GxZZuusE2EtxJnbEsvoFD1-j4sXRse2vwlYz5U",{"id":591,"title":592,"author":7,"authors":593,"body":594,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":897,"description":898,"extension":318,"img":899,"imgAlt":900,"meta":901,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":902,"seo":903,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":904,"updated":7,"__hash__":905},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo.md","AI Search vs Traditional Search - Navigating the Shift to Search Visibility Optimization (SVO)",[9],{"type":11,"value":595,"toc":877},[596,599,603,606,616,620,623,634,641,645,648,655,662,665,668,671,682,685,690,693,696,701,706,713,716,783,787,790,793,804,808,811,815,818,822,825,829,832,839,842,845,848,852],[14,597,598],{},"For nearly two decades, the digital playbook for B2B software and tech companies was tried and true: pick your keywords, optimize your site, build backlinks, and win the glory of a top ten spot on a page of blue links. Today… not so much. You might notice your organic website traffic dropping even though your keyword rankings haven't changed. The reason isn't that your competitors suddenly bought more backlinks—it is because the fundamental way people look for information has evolved. Users are moving away from traditional engines and turning to conversational models, leaving marketing leaders to navigate the massive operational shift between ai search vs traditional search engines. Fixing this isn't about buying more links; it’s about changing how your website presents information to be indexed by both humans and algorithms.",[24,600,602],{"id":601},"the-core-differences-ten-blue-links-vs-synthesized-answers","The Core Differences: Ten Blue Links vs. Synthesized Answers",[14,604,605],{},"To understand why traditional search engine optimization (SEO) is no longer enough on its own, we have to look at how user behavior and technology have diverged.",[14,607,608,609,612,613,212],{},"When analyzing ai-driven search engines vs traditional search engines differences, the distinction comes down to ",[38,610,611],{},"retrieval"," versus ",[38,614,615],{},"synthesis",[81,617,619],{"id":618},"traditional-search-the-index-and-click-engine","Traditional Search: The Index and Click Engine",[14,621,622],{},"Traditional search engines operate as massive directory indices. A user types a query like \"best enterprise CRM for SaaS,\" and the engine returns pages of indexed links ranked by relevance, domain authority, and technical optimization. The user must then:",[132,624,625,628,631],{},[49,626,627],{},"Click into three to five separate websites.",[49,629,630],{},"Read through intro fluff and sales copy.",[49,632,633],{},"Manually synthesize the data to make a decision.",[14,635,636,637,640],{},"This model relies on driving traffic ",[38,638,639],{},"to"," your website. Your site is the destination where the user finds the answer.",[81,642,644],{"id":643},"ai-search-the-direct-answer-engine","AI Search: The Direct Answer Engine",[14,646,647],{},"AI tools like ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, and Google AI Overviews bypass the directory model entirely. They do not just fetch links; they read, cross-reference, and summarize content from across the web into a single, cohesive answer right inside the search interface.",[14,649,650,651,654],{},"When comparing traditional vs ai search results rankings, the target moves from ranking #1 on a keyword list to becoming the primary ",[38,652,653],{},"cited source"," inside an LLM's generated summary. If an AI overview answers your prospect's question completely on the search page, they won't click through to your blog—even if you rank at the top of the organic list.",[24,656,658,661],{"id":657},"why-software-companies-are-losing-traffic-the-zero-click-reality",[75,659],{"alt":77,"src":660},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fa22194a2-19e3-4d2b-a42e-4ad5c6d95b69-click.png","Why Software Companies Are Losing Traffic (The Zero-Click Reality)",[14,663,664],{},"This structural shift explains the mysterious drop in website sessions across B2B software and tech sectors. Buyers are getting their answers without ever visiting your domain.",[14,666,667],{},"When considering ai enterprise search vs traditional enterprise search, enterprise software buyers are no longer hunting through lengthy technical documentation manually. They are asking AI engines to summarize product capabilities, compare pricing structures, and aggregate user reviews into single tables.",[14,669,670],{},"If your marketing strategy relies exclusively on legacy SEO tactics, you face three major risks:",[46,672,673,676,679],{},[49,674,675],{},"Zero-Click Erosion: Higher-funnel informational traffic evaporates as AI Overviews satisfy search intent directly on the results page.",[49,677,678],{},"Loss of Brand Mindshare: If LLMs aren't trained on or citing your content, your product simply doesn't exist during the buyer's initial research phase.",[49,680,681],{},"Vanity Metric Misalignment: Your SEO agency may report stable keyword positions, but your inbound lead forms and phone calls tell a very different story.",[81,683,109],{"id":684},"expert-insight-from-mkg-marketing",[14,686,687,689],{},[38,688,114],{},"AI is making the decision on what it's going to show the user. The system decided your content was the most trustworthy, most citable answer to that exact question for that exact person. Writing something good and checking the ‘helpful content’ boxes doesn't get you there. Those are very different bars.",[14,691,692],{},"‘Helpful’ is table stakes. It's what gets you into the building, not into the room where the AI is assembling its answer.",[14,694,695],{},"What gets you cited is specificity: The right category. Website & Page Structure. Consistent messaging across your entire footprint. A point of view that the model can actually extract and reuse with confidence.",[14,697,698,699],{},"So when Google says ‘just be helpful,’ they're not wrong. They're just leaving out about 80% of what actually matters. And the companies that take that advice at face value are going to watch their visibility collapse while their content quality stays perfectly fine.",[38,700,114],{},[14,702,120,703,705],{},[52,704,9],{},", CEO & Founder of MKG Marketing",[24,707,709,712],{"id":708},"the-evolution-moving-from-seo-to-svo-aeo-and-geo",[75,710],{"alt":77,"src":711},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F4dd65826-2a82-444b-9693-b6845e4438c0-meeting.png","The Evolution: Moving from SEO to SVO, AEO, and GEO",[14,714,715],{},"To stay visible and continue generating qualified pipeline, marketing executives must expand their organic framework beyond traditional boundaries. This requires a modern, multi-layered approach:",[717,718,719,735],"table",{},[720,721,722],"thead",{},[723,724,725,729,732],"tr",{},[726,727,728],"th",{},"Framework",[726,730,731],{},"Full Name",[726,733,734],{},"Primary Objective",[736,737,738,750,761,772],"tbody",{},[723,739,740,744,747],{},[741,742,743],"td",{},"SEO",[741,745,746],{},"Search Engine Optimization",[741,748,749],{},"Ranking pages on traditional search engine results pages (SERPs) for targeted keywords.",[723,751,752,755,758],{},[741,753,754],{},"AEO",[741,756,757],{},"Answer Engine Optimization",[741,759,760],{},"Structuring data so voice assistants and snippet engines can pull direct, succinct answers.",[723,762,763,766,769],{},[741,764,765],{},"GEO",[741,767,768],{},"Generative Engine Optimization",[741,770,771],{},"Formatting brand narrative, statistics, and domain expertise so LLMs ingest and cite your brand.",[723,773,774,777,780],{},[741,775,776],{},"SVO",[741,778,779],{},"Search Visibility Optimization",[741,781,782],{},"The Unified Strategy: Maximizing total brand presence across both traditional links and AI answer engines.",[81,784,786],{"id":785},"how-search-visibility-optimization-svo-solves-the-gap","How Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Solves the Gap",[14,788,789],{},"SVO doesn't discard traditional SEO; it unifies SEO, AEO, and GEO into a single operational framework.",[14,791,792],{},"Rather than chasing raw session counts, SVO focuses on Information Gain and Citations. To win citations in AI-generated answers, your web content must feature:",[132,794,795,798,801],{},[49,796,797],{},"Clear, Schema-Structured Data: Helping bots identify who you are, what your software does, and who you serve without guessing.",[49,799,800],{},"First-Party Expertise (E-E-A-T): Unique data points, proprietary benchmark reports, and expert commentary that LLMs cannot synthesize from generic web text.",[49,802,803],{},"Direct Answer Formatting: Clear, concise definitions at the top of technical pieces that allow answer engines to extract key takeaways cleanly.",[24,805,807],{"id":806},"practical-steps-to-adapt-your-search-strategy-today","Practical Steps to Adapt Your Search Strategy Today",[14,809,810],{},"Shifting your company's digital presence to capture both traditional and AI-driven search doesn't require scrapping your entire content library. It requires restructuring how your information is delivered.",[81,812,814],{"id":813},"_1-optimize-for-high-information-gain","1. Optimize for High Information Gain",[14,816,817],{},"Eliminate generic, top-of-funnel fluff articles that summarize widely available knowledge. AI engines already summarize that data effortlessly. Focus instead on deep, opinionated, original content: teardowns of real customer implementation challenges, original survey data, and niche technical workflows.",[81,819,821],{"id":820},"_2-standardize-entity-and-brand-citations","2. Standardize Entity and Brand Citations",[14,823,824],{},"Ensure your brand's core value proposition, product categories, and technical terminology are consistent across external review sites, Wikipedia entries, PR releases, and your own domain. LLMs establish trust by cross-referencing brand information across multiple authoritative sources.",[81,826,828],{"id":827},"_3-track-pipeline-impact-over-pure-clicks","3. Track Pipeline Impact over Pure Clicks",[14,830,831],{},"Recognize that a drop in informational blog clicks does not automatically mean a drop in revenue. If an AI search tool cites your software as the top recommendation for an enterprise query, the prospect may navigate directly to your pricing or contact page to initiate a call. Measure branded search volume, direct traffic, and pipeline velocity alongside traditional organic metrics.",[24,833,835,838],{"id":834},"summary-adapting-to-how-buyers-search-today",[75,836],{"alt":77,"src":837},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F1a47aa4c-b986-4fd6-b30d-5ff622a02239-brain.png","Summary: Adapting to How Buyers Search Today",[14,840,841],{},"The debate surrounding ai search vs traditional search engines isn't about choosing one platform over the other. Traditional search engines will continue to process billions of queries, but AI-driven answer engines are rapidly capturing high-intent B2B research behavior. If software and tech companies want to keep filling their sales pipelines with new customers, they must adapt to how people search today.",[14,843,844],{},"Succeeding in this new landscape requires a refined strategy, technical precision, and continuous testing across evolving engine algorithms.",[14,846,847],{},"At MKG Marketing, we eliminate the guesswork. We provide a senior-led team of digital experts who handle your search strategy and technical execution directly—with zero handoffs to junior staff. We help growing tech organizations build future-proof organic engines that drive clear visibility, authoritative citations, and real business revenue.",[81,849,851],{"id":850},"ready-to-modernize-your-search-strategy","Ready to Modernize Your Search Strategy?",[46,853,854,862,869],{},[49,855,856,857,861],{},"Organic search is constantly shifting. Let’s figure it out together. We help tech leaders cut through the noise and build search strategies that actually drive growth. Explore our ",[206,858,860],{"href":208,"rel":859},[210],"Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services"," or book your initial search strategy review.",[49,863,864,865,278],{},"Skip the generic SEO agency playbook. Our senior team works alongside you to build a tailored search strategy that gets your brand seen. Ready to fix traffic drops or scale what’s already working? ",[206,866,868],{"href":275,"rel":867},[210],"Contact MKG Marketing today",[49,870,871,872,212],{},"Ready to learn more about content quality in the age of artificial intelligence? We got you covered:",[206,873,876],{"href":874,"rel":875},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings\u002F",[210]," Is AI Content Bad for SEO? How to Scale Traffic Without Sacrificing Rankings",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":878},[879,883,886,889,894],{"id":601,"depth":291,"text":602,"children":880},[881,882],{"id":618,"depth":297,"text":619},{"id":643,"depth":297,"text":644},{"id":657,"depth":291,"text":661,"children":884},[885],{"id":684,"depth":297,"text":109},{"id":708,"depth":291,"text":712,"children":887},[888],{"id":785,"depth":297,"text":786},{"id":806,"depth":291,"text":807,"children":890},[891,892,893],{"id":813,"depth":297,"text":814},{"id":820,"depth":297,"text":821},{"id":827,"depth":297,"text":828},{"id":834,"depth":291,"text":838,"children":895},[896],{"id":850,"depth":297,"text":851},"2026-08-05T15:31:00.000Z","Traditional SEO is shifting. Learn how AI search engines are disrupting the ten blue links and how to win brand mentions in LLM responses.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Ff8233c21-a553-4cdf-b08e-62ba6de46295-mkg-blog-ai-search-vs-traditional-search-hero-image.webp","Stop Chasing Clicks, Capture Direct-Answer AI",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo",{"title":592,"description":898},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fai-search-vs-traditional-search-navigating-the-shift-to-search-visibility-optimization-svo","-gpi5KK10pDxINv9ruMKWl6jS80jXrfnRRxBeMsFrVE",{"id":907,"title":908,"author":7,"authors":7,"body":909,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":1138,"description":1139,"extension":318,"img":1140,"imgAlt":1141,"meta":1142,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":1143,"seo":1144,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":1145,"updated":7,"__hash__":1146},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization-svo-monthly-overview-july-2026.md","Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Monthly Overview - July 2026",{"type":11,"value":910,"toc":1130},[911,917,966,972,1008,1014,1049,1055,1082,1088,1091,1096,1099,1102,1122],[24,912,914],{"id":913},"executive-summary-the-tldr",[52,915,916],{},"Executive Summary (The TL;DR)",[46,918,919,931,942,954],{},[49,920,921,924,925,930],{},[52,922,923],{},"Google Refines Helpful Content Systems:"," The",[206,926,929],{"href":927,"rel":928},"https:\u002F\u002Fadelev8.com\u002Fblog\u002Fgoogle-july-2026-helpful-content-update",[210]," July 2026 Helpful Content Update"," shifts evaluation metrics from blunt site-wide penalties to granular, section-level filtering, strictly penalizing synthetic, low-effort material while rewarding verified practitioner expertise.",[49,932,933,936,937,212],{},[52,934,935],{},"AI Overviews Expansion:"," Google integrated live news carousels and direct image generation inside AI Overviews, which now feature in approximately",[206,938,941],{"href":939,"rel":940},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.artificialintelligence-news.com\u002Fnews\u002Fgoogle-ai-overviews-us-searches\u002F",[210]," 43% of US searches",[49,943,944,947,948,953],{},[52,945,946],{},"Search Console Controls Updates:"," Site owners can now explicitly manage and isolate content inclusion within AI Overviews and AI Mode via",[206,949,952],{"href":950,"rel":951},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.numinix.com\u002Fblog\u002Fjuly-2026-seo-algorithm-news-update\u002F",[210]," updated Search Console controls"," without sacrificing baseline organic rankings.",[49,955,956,959,960,965],{},[52,957,958],{},"AEO and Third Party Integration:"," ChatGPT’s integration of live third-party platform data (such as",[206,961,964],{"href":962,"rel":963},"https:\u002F\u002Fsearchengineland.com\u002Fgoogle-to-update-local-services-ads-policies-in-july-479653",[210]," Yelp reviews, ratings, and photos",") forces B2B and B2C brands to optimize their multi-platform digital footprints beyond owned properties.",[24,967,969],{"id":968},"algorithm-technical-seo-updates",[52,970,971],{},"Algorithm & Technical SEO Updates",[46,973,974,986,997],{},[49,975,976,979,980,985],{},[52,977,978],{},"The July 2026 Helpful Content Update:"," Google deployed a ",[206,981,984],{"href":982,"rel":983},"https:\u002F\u002Fseovendor.co\u002Fgoogle-algorithm-updates-july-2026\u002F",[210],"targeted update"," to its Helpful Content System, tightening synthetic content detection and increasing E-E-A-T weightings. Unlike previous iterations that carried a risk of broad site-wide demotions, this update introduces granular section-level assessments, permitting well-authored pages on otherwise mixed-quality domains to retain visibility.",[49,987,988,991,992,996],{},[52,989,990],{},"Global Spam Countermeasures:"," Running alongside minor core adjustments, ",[206,993,995],{"href":950,"rel":994},[210],"a global spam update"," rolled out to refine SpamBrain heuristics, targeting systemic manipulation patterns rather than isolated link-building tactics.",[49,998,999,1002,1003,1007],{},[52,1000,1001],{},"Search Console Shifts:"," Platform-wide properties and explicit GEO isolation controls ",[206,1004,1006],{"href":950,"rel":1005},[210],"went live",", enabling technical leaders to partition content accessibility for generative experiences without damaging classic organic indexing.",[24,1009,1011],{"id":1010},"geoaeo-updates",[52,1012,1013],{},"GEO\u002FAEO Updates",[46,1015,1016,1026,1037],{},[49,1017,1018,1021,1022,1025],{},[52,1019,1020],{},"AI Overview Saturation & Features:"," Market intelligence indicates AI Overviews now appear in roughly",[206,1023,941],{"href":939,"rel":1024},[210],", fundamentally altering click-through dynamics. July updates added real-time news carousels and native AI-generated image creation directly into query responses, shifting user engagement loops.",[49,1027,1028,1031,1032,1036],{},[52,1029,1030],{},"Cross-Platform Citation Shifts:"," ChatGPT expanded its retrieval architecture by integrating live third-party review and vector data (including",[206,1033,1035],{"href":962,"rel":1034},[210]," Yelp reviews and ratings","), illustrating that LLM engines rely heavily on aggregated ecosystem trust signals rather than just corporate web properties.",[49,1038,1039,1042,1043,1048],{},[52,1040,1041],{},"The \"Ghost Citation\" Phenomenon:"," ",[206,1044,1047],{"href":1045,"rel":1046},"https:\u002F\u002Fsearchengineland.com\u002Fai-halftime-report-h1-2026-483912",[210],"Emerging tracking data"," highlights that AI engines frequently synthesize information from third-party aggregators and forums, leaving primary creators uncredited unless structured entities are explicitly claimed and verified.",[24,1050,1052],{"id":1051},"strategic-implications-for-leaders",[52,1053,1054],{},"Strategic Implications for Leaders",[46,1056,1057,1063],{},[49,1058,1059,1062],{},[52,1060,1061],{},"What to ignore:"," Short-term ranking fluctuations and mass content deletions. High-volume, automated articles no longer hold value under current search filters, making rapid content generation counterproductive.",[49,1064,1065,1068],{},[52,1066,1067],{},"Where to pivot:",[46,1069,1070,1076],{},[49,1071,1072,1075],{},[52,1073,1074],{},"Clean up low-value content:"," Review site pages for thin or AI-generated text. Replace surface-level summaries with original research, customer case studies, and expert data that language models cannot replicate.",[49,1077,1078,1081],{},[52,1079,1080],{},"Standardize off-page brand data:"," Align Schema markup, corporate records, and third-party profiles across major directories and review platforms. Search engines and AI systems rely heavily on external sources to verify company authority.",[24,1083,1085],{"id":1084},"looking-ahead",[52,1086,1087],{},"Looking Ahead",[14,1089,1090],{},"Google historically issues a major core algorithm update in late Q3. Growth teams should focus on deepening coverage within core subject areas rather than publishing broadly across adjacent topics.",[24,1092,1094],{"id":1093},"search-visibility-optimization-svo",[52,1095,168],{},[14,1097,1098],{},"Maintaining search traffic now requires managing three distinct channels: standard web indexing, answer engine citations (AEO), and generative search layouts (GEO).",[14,1100,1101],{},"MKG assists growth-stage technology companies with:",[46,1103,1104,1110,1116],{},[49,1105,1106,1109],{},[52,1107,1108],{},"GEO and AEO Audits:"," Evaluating brand presence and citation rates across ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews.",[49,1111,1112,1115],{},[52,1113,1114],{},"Structured Data Infrastructure:"," Aligning Schema markup and technical index controls to safeguard search presence.",[49,1117,1118,1121],{},[52,1119,1120],{},"Pipeline Attribution Modeling:"," Measuring how generative search visibility impacts customer acquisition costs (CAC) and deal velocity.",[14,1123,1124,1125,1129],{},"To review your domain's generative search visibility, ",[206,1126,1128],{"href":275,"rel":1127},[210],"schedule a consultation"," with an MKG search specialist.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1131},[1132,1133,1134,1135,1136,1137],{"id":913,"depth":291,"text":916},{"id":968,"depth":291,"text":971},{"id":1010,"depth":291,"text":1013},{"id":1051,"depth":291,"text":1054},{"id":1084,"depth":291,"text":1087},{"id":1093,"depth":291,"text":168},"2026-08-04T16:16:55.368Z","Stay updated on the July 2026 search landscape: Google’s granular Helpful Content Update, AI Overviews reaching 43% of US searches, new Search Console controls for AI Mode, and ChatGPT's integration of third-party platform data.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F9bacf7c4-18eb-47f1-87fb-986cba555a73-Copy of 11766_(1920x1080) (7).png","close-up image of a blue pushpin marking a location on a detailed paper map",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization-svo-monthly-overview-july-2026",{"title":908,"description":1139},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fsearch-visibility-optimization-svo-monthly-overview-july-2026","5pxN68DR_qIaFWWZtTFVVhPfAFuFaWVgo_xonw8Dtw0",{"id":1148,"title":1149,"author":7,"authors":7,"body":1150,"caption":7,"category":315,"date":1460,"description":1461,"extension":318,"img":1462,"imgAlt":1463,"meta":1464,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":1465,"seo":1466,"seodescription":7,"seotitle":7,"stem":1467,"updated":7,"__hash__":1468},"blog\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings.md","Is AI Content Bad for SEO? How to Scale Traffic Without Sacrificing Rankings",{"type":11,"value":1151,"toc":1444},[1152,1159,1165,1168,1183,1186,1189,1203,1210,1213,1217,1220,1226,1237,1243,1246,1252,1263,1265,1270,1273,1276,1281,1286,1293,1300,1303,1309,1312,1318,1321,1332,1338,1341,1348,1357,1364,1371,1376,1379,1394,1400,1406,1409,1416,1420],[14,1153,1154,1155,1158],{},"Let’s answer the question on every marketing leader’s mind right away: ",[52,1156,1157],{},"No, AI content is not inherently bad for SEO."," Google does not automatically penalize text simply because an artificial intelligence model generated it. In fact, Google’s official Search guidelines state that the search engine ranks content based on its helpfulness, relevance, and quality—not on who (or what) typed the words.",[14,1160,1161,1162],{},"However, there is a massive caveat that every modern CMO and VP of Marketing must understand: ",[52,1163,1164],{},"publishing unedited, mass-produced AI text is a fast track to losing traffic.",[14,1166,1167],{},"While AI can drastically accelerate your research and drafting phases, relying on raw algorithm outputs to power your organic search strategy will inevitably hurt your brand. The internet is quickly becoming flooded with synthesized, low-effort fluff. Search engines are aggressively updating their algorithms to identify and down-rank generic copy that fails to bring new value to the web.",[14,1169,1170,1171,1174,1175,1178,1179,1182],{},"So, ",[52,1172,1173],{},"does AI-generated content impact SEO?"," Absolutely—for better or for worse depending entirely on ",[38,1176,1177],{},"how"," you use it. To navigate this new era of search, B2B software and tech companies must learn how to safely leverage AI as an efficiency tool while keeping senior human strategy in full control. ",[75,1180],{"alt":77,"src":1181},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fe5fe90d6-da9d-42d8-8ca3-5c601eb33fc8-ai-content-bad-for-seo-1.png","What Google Actually Cites About AI-Generated Content",[14,1184,1185],{},"A widespread myth floating around boardrooms is that Google possesses a universal \"AI detector\" that immediately penalizes any site using machine learning tools. This misconception has led to two extreme behaviors: organizations either banned AI entirely out of fear, or they went all-in, firing editorial teams and pumping out hundreds of unvetted AI articles a month.",[14,1187,1188],{},"Both approaches are flawed. Google’s position on AI content is clear and consistent:",[46,1190,1191,1197],{},[49,1192,1193,1196],{},[52,1194,1195],{},"Intent matters over medium:"," If you use automation, including generative AI, primarily to manipulate search rankings, it is considered a violation of Google's spam policies.",[49,1198,1199,1202],{},[52,1200,1201],{},"Quality is the ultimate benchmark:"," If your content offers original information, insightful analysis, and clear utility to the searcher, Google will reward it—regardless of whether AI helped draft the paragraphs.",[14,1204,1205,1206,1209],{},"This distinction rests on Google’s ",[52,1207,1208],{},"E-E-A-T framework",": Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness.",[14,1211,1212],{},"Generative AI models are trained on existing web data; by design, they scrape, synthesize, and regurgitate information that has already been published. They cannot draw from personal background, run proprietary benchmark studies, or conduct interviews with industry veterans. Therefore, raw AI content inherently lacks the \"First-Hand Experience\" and deep \"Expertise\" required to satisfy modern search criteria.",[24,1214,1216],{"id":1215},"why-copy-pasting-ai-copy-destroys-your-organic-traffic","Why Copy-Pasting AI Copy Destroys Your Organic Traffic",[14,1218,1219],{},"If Google doesn't penalize AI text on principle, why are so many tech sites seeing their organic impressions plummet after launching automated content initiatives? The answer lies in the subtle traps of machine-generated prose.",[81,1221,1223],{"id":1222},"_1-the-information-gain-problem",[52,1224,1225],{},"1. The Information Gain Problem",[14,1227,1228,1229,1232,1233,1236],{},"Search engine algorithms are increasingly prioritizing ",[52,1230,1231],{},"Information Gain","—a metric that measures whether a piece of content adds ",[38,1234,1235],{},"new"," facts, perspectives, or data points to a topic compared to existing index results. When an AI tool drafts an article, it simply summarizes what the top ten results on Google are already saying. It offers zero information gain. If your page is merely an average of what is already online, Google has no incentive to rank you above established competitors.",[81,1238,1240],{"id":1239},"_2-hallucinations-and-brand-risk",[52,1241,1242],{},"2. Hallucinations and Brand Risk",[14,1244,1245],{},"Large Language Models (LLMs) are predictive engines, not factual databases. They routinely invent statistics, misquote technical documentation, and present incorrect product capabilities with total confidence. Publishing hallucinated facts erodes consumer trust and signals to search crawlers that your site lacks basic editorial integrity.",[81,1247,1249],{"id":1248},"_3-the-homogenization-of-brand-voice",[52,1250,1251],{},"3. The Homogenization of Brand Voice",[14,1253,1254,1255,1258,1259,1262],{},"B2B tech buyers are sophisticated. They can spot low-effort, synthetic writing instantly. Text bloated with hollow transitions (",[38,1256,1257],{},"\"In today's fast-paced digital landscape...\""," or ",[38,1260,1261],{},"\"It is crucial to leverage...\"",") signals to prospects that your company lacks real point-of-view authority. If your content sounds identical to every competitor using the same prompts, you lose your market positioning.",[24,1264,109],{"id":684},[14,1266,1267,1269],{},[38,1268,114],{},"The AI has no reason to pick yours over theirs. It's looking for something it can confidently reuse, and if your version doesn't add anything new, you're background noise.",[14,1271,1272],{},"So instead of writing more, I'm going page by page through what already exists and asking one question: does this page say something that no other page on the internet says?",[14,1274,1275],{},"Original data. A real client pattern you documented. A first-person account of what actually happened when you tried the thing everyone recommends. ",[14,1277,1278,1279],{},"That's what AI pulls in. The generic stuff is what AI already has forty versions of. It doesn't need yours.",[38,1280,114],{},[14,1282,120,1283,1285],{},[52,1284,9],{},", CEO of MKG Marketing",[24,1287,1289,1292],{"id":1288},"how-to-safely-use-ai-as-a-marketing-assistant-not-a-lead-strategist",[75,1290],{"alt":77,"src":1291},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fc8d0926d-82b9-42f9-85f4-3c433da82d78-ai-content-bad-for-seo-2.png","How to Safely Use AI as a Marketing Assistant (Not a Lead Strategist)",[14,1294,1295,1296,1299],{},"To succeed in search today, modern tech companies don't need to abandon AI; they need to integrate it into a ",[52,1297,1298],{},"human-led editorial workflow",". AI should act as the junior analyst that handles heavy administrative lifting, while senior strategists serve as the editorial director.",[14,1301,1302],{},"Here is how high-growth organizations use AI tools safely without putting their search performance at risk:",[81,1304,1306],{"id":1305},"_1-accelerate-research-and-formatting",[52,1307,1308],{},"1. Accelerate Research and Formatting",[14,1310,1311],{},"Use AI to synthesize lengthy transcripts, cluster search intent, organize raw data, and draft initial structural outlines. Asking an AI tool to suggest five logical structural flows for a technical guide saves hours of brainstorming without diluting your editorial voice.",[81,1313,1315],{"id":1314},"_2-inject-proprietary-data-and-human-storytelling",[52,1316,1317],{},"2. Inject Proprietary Data and Human Storytelling",[14,1319,1320],{},"Once a rough outline or foundational draft exists, a subject matter expert (SME) must step in. Inject real-world elements that an algorithm can never produce:",[46,1322,1323,1326,1329],{},[49,1324,1325],{},"Customer case studies and real implementation metrics.",[49,1327,1328],{},"Direct quotes from internal product architects or sales engineers.",[49,1330,1331],{},"Unique takeaways or counter-intuitive opinions that challenge status-quo industry advice.",[81,1333,1335],{"id":1334},"_3-rigorous-fact-checking-and-editorial-oversight",[52,1336,1337],{},"3. Rigorous Fact-Checking and Editorial Oversight",[14,1339,1340],{},"Every claim, statistic, and technical instruction generated during the drafting phase must be verified by a human editor. Ensure the tone matches your brand guidelines and eliminate boilerplate AI phrasing.",[14,1342,1343,1344,1347],{},"Want to see how your current search strategy measures up against the latest engine updates? Explore our comprehensive",[206,1345,211],{"href":208,"rel":1346},[210]," or book an initial search strategy review with our senior team today.",[24,1349,1351,1354],{"id":1350},"beyond-traditional-seo-preparing-for-search-visibility-optimization-svo",[75,1352],{"alt":77,"src":1353},"https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002F2cd275b2-b56c-4864-b728-e18e54f45370-ai-content-bad-for-seo-3.png",[52,1355,1356],{},"Beyond Traditional SEO: Preparing for Search Visibility Optimization (SVO)",[14,1358,1359,1360,1363],{},"The debate over whether AI-generated content ",[52,1361,1362],{},"is good for seo"," is part of a much larger shift in how users find information. Search is no longer confined to a list of ten blue links on a traditional search results page.",[14,1365,1366,1367,1370],{},"With the rapid adoption of AI Overviews, ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity, users are increasingly getting direct answers synthesized and generated right inside search interfaces. This shift means that optimizing purely for keyword clicks is no longer enough. You must optimize for ",[52,1368,1369],{},"total brand visibility"," across AI search models and traditional engines alike.",[14,1372,1373,1374,212],{},"This evolution is what we call ",[52,1375,168],{},[14,1377,1378],{},"To win in an SVO-driven ecosystem, your content must be authoritative enough that AI models choose to cite your brand as the primary source of truth. Generic, auto-generated articles will never be cited by AI search tools because those articles lack original authority. The only way to capture mindshare in both AI answers and traditional search lists is by publishing high-gain, expert-driven content that clearly demonstrates E-E-A-T.",[14,1380,1381,1382,1387,1388,1393],{},"If your organic reach is stalling due to changing algorithms, taking a holistic view of your digital presence is essential. Aligning your organic content strategy with high-intent paid acquisition via",[206,1383,1386],{"href":1384,"rel":1385},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.google.com\u002Fsearch?q=https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fservices\u002Fdigital-advertising\u002F",[210]," Digital Advertising"," and measuring true user journeys through robust",[206,1389,1392],{"href":1390,"rel":1391},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.google.com\u002Fsearch?q=https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fservices\u002Fanalytics\u002F",[210]," Digital Analytics"," ensures your marketing engine generates pipeline—not just empty clicks.",[24,1395,1397],{"id":1396},"summary-adapting-your-search-engine-strategy-for-long-term-growth",[52,1398,1399],{},"Summary: Adapting Your Search Engine Strategy for Long-Term Growth",[14,1401,1402,1403,1405],{},"To recap: ",[52,1404,1173],{}," Yes. If you treat AI as a magic shortcut to generate hundreds of unvetted blog posts, your search visibility will eventually collapse; quickly building a house out of AI sticks won’t protect you when the Big Bad Search Engine Wolf comes calling. But if you treat AI as an efficiency engine that supports a human-led, expert-driven content pipeline, you can scale output without sacrificing rankings.",[14,1407,1408],{},"As search engines adapt to the flood of synthetic content, companies must adapt how they communicate with their buyers. The brands that win over the next decade won't be those that avoid AI, nor will they be those that hand their entire marketing strategy over to algorithms. The winners will be the organizations that pair cutting-edge tools with an authentic, human-driven brand voice.",[14,1410,1411,1412,1415],{},"At ",[52,1413,1414],{},"MKG Marketing",", we don't pass your search strategy off to junior account managers or unmonitored software bots. We provide an experienced, senior-led team that handles both the high-level strategy and technical execution directly. We help B2B tech and software companies navigate complex search updates, build a sustainable organic pipeline, and maintain complete operational control over their brand narrative.",[24,1417,1419],{"id":1418},"ready-to-build-a-future-proof-search-strategy","Ready to Build a Future-Proof Search Strategy?",[46,1421,1422,1429,1436],{},[49,1423,1424,1425,212],{},"Learn how our senior-led team can audit and elevate your organic reach.",[206,1426,1428],{"href":208,"rel":1427},[210]," Explore our Search Visibility Optimization (SVO) Services & Strategy Reviews",[49,1430,1431,1432,278],{},"Have immediate questions about your traffic or upcoming search updates?",[206,1433,1435],{"href":275,"rel":1434},[210]," Contact the MKG Marketing Team directly",[49,1437,1438,1439,212],{},"Want to dive deeper into modern search trends? Read our latest guide:",[206,1440,1443],{"href":1441,"rel":1442},"https:\u002F\u002Fmkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fblog\u002F",[210]," Beyond Last-Click: How to Measure Marketing Influence in an AI-First World",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1445},[1446,1451,1452,1457,1458,1459],{"id":1215,"depth":291,"text":1216,"children":1447},[1448,1449,1450],{"id":1222,"depth":297,"text":1225},{"id":1239,"depth":297,"text":1242},{"id":1248,"depth":297,"text":1251},{"id":684,"depth":291,"text":109},{"id":1288,"depth":291,"text":1292,"children":1453},[1454,1455,1456],{"id":1305,"depth":297,"text":1308},{"id":1314,"depth":297,"text":1317},{"id":1334,"depth":297,"text":1337},{"id":1350,"depth":291,"text":1356},{"id":1396,"depth":291,"text":1399},{"id":1418,"depth":291,"text":1419},"2026-07-31T16:42:23.391Z","Does AI-generated content impact SEO? Discover how to safely use AI tools to build traffic and why copy-pasting generic text will hurt your rankings.","https:\u002F\u002Fassets.mkgmarketinginc.com\u002Fa2137492-5860-4960-8c3b-cc662b7514b0-mkg-blog-is-ai-content-bad-for-seo.webp","Is AI Content Bad for SEO",{},"\u002Fblog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings",{"title":1149,"description":1461},"blog\u002Fseo\u002Fis-ai-content-bad-for-seo-how-to-scale-traffic-without-sacrificing-rankings","JTYjNLnGw7cBodE7MWP1BtwoH_ZZOdJiYIWSI_-KtQc",[1470,1897,2295],{"id":1471,"title":1472,"body":1473,"date":1867,"description":1868,"extension":318,"img":1869,"meta":1870,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":1871,"seo":1872,"speakers":1873,"stem":1894,"updated":7,"watchOnDemand":1895,"__hash__":1896},"events\u002Fevents\u002Fculture-that-converts.md","Culture That Converts",{"type":11,"value":1474,"toc":1860},[1475,1479,1483,1486,1489,1492,1496,1501,1507,1512,1518,1521,1526,1532,1537,1543,1546,1551,1556,1561,1566,1571,1576,1581,1586,1591,1594,1599,1602,1607,1612,1617,1622,1627,1632,1637,1642,1647,1652,1657,1662,1667,1672,1677,1682,1687,1692,1697,1702,1707,1712,1717,1722,1727,1732,1737,1742,1747,1752,1757,1762,1767,1772,1777,1782,1787,1792,1797,1802,1807,1812,1817,1822,1827,1832,1835,1838,1842,1845,1848,1851,1854,1857],[24,1476,1478],{"id":1477},"transcript","Transcript",[81,1480,1482],{"id":1481},"opening","Opening",[14,1484,1485],{},"Hello. I'm Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing and welcome to this Live Round Table where we're going to discuss how having a culture that supports and takes care of your team can lead to hitting your lofty goals. Between quiet quitting, layoffs, burnout, and mental health, employees are being very clear of what they will and will not work for. So how do we meet their needs while holding them accountable?",[14,1487,1488],{},"Before I launch into introductions and questions, some quick housekeeping. This is our promise to you as our listeners, and what we hope in return:\nWe promise to keep to the discussion at hand. It’s why you’re here and what we’ll honor. This isn’t about our companies or selling. This is an honest, authentic conversation with real experts who are living and breathing this challenge  and how we can learn from them in applying it to our own brands.\nFor those listening, please engage in the comments. We have AnDrae’ Jones hanging without y’all. He’ll be there to field your comments over to me for our guests to answer at the end, as well as hang out with you. He’s great. Thanks, for joining us, AnDrae’!",[14,1490,1491],{},"Let's kick off with introductions!",[81,1493,1495],{"id":1494},"conversation","Conversation",[14,1497,1498,1500],{},[52,1499,9],{},": Can each of you introduce yourselves? Your name and your title, and share what company culture means to you. I'll kick off with Peter.",[14,1502,1503,1506],{},[52,1504,1505],{},"Peter Zaballos",": Thank you, Kerry. It’s super fun to be here today, and it's a topic that is personally important to me. I am a fractional CMO at a company called Authentic Brand. I spent my career in high-growth technology startups in marketing, leading marketing organizations. I was also a venture capitalist for seven years, as well. And when I think of what is called company culture, it means creating a safe place for people to do their best work, take risks, and learn from failure, but it's creating that safe place for people to perform.",[14,1508,1509,1511],{},[52,1510,9],{},": Patrick next.",[14,1513,1514,1517],{},[52,1515,1516],{},"Patrick Garrity",":  It's Patrick Garrity and VP of Marketing at Nucleus Security. I've been here about six months, and have worked with cybersecurity companies over the last decade, Duo Security, Censys, Blumira, and now Nucleus.",[14,1519,1520],{},"Creating a good culture is prioritizing people, helping them be in a position where they can do their best, and also giving them the ability to enjoy the things they love to do outside of work as well. So helping them find their balance and helping them perform what they're here to do.",[14,1522,1523,1525],{},[52,1524,9],{},": I love it! Aileen.",[14,1527,1528,1531],{},[52,1529,1530],{},"Aileen Casmano",": Thanks, Kerry. I'm Aileen. I am the director of demand generation at VISOTrust. I'm on week four. So very new. But I've been in the cybersecurity industry for about six years, which is crazy. And what company culture means to me is an environment where I feel supported. At work, we try to keep fit. The family dynamic out of calling it that, but a place where I can show up and be myself and feel supported. I've been lucky to work for companies that have honored that, so that's very important to me, and any company that enables your professional and personal growth. That's important because we're constantly changing as humans, so we need that support.",[14,1533,1534,1536],{},[52,1535,9],{},": Janice.",[14,1538,1539,1542],{},[52,1540,1541],{},"Janice Dru-Bennett",":  I'm Janice Dru-Bennett. I focus on strategic partnership marketing at mQuilibrium,  a tech company that delivers digital resilience solutions. And I also wear the hat as an entrepreneur, social impact advocate, and mom.",[14,1544,1545],{},"Company culture means living your values as a company and aligning your organizational purpose with your people's purposes. Having that alignment and showcasing that you are living your values is really important to company culture.",[14,1547,1548,1550],{},[52,1549,9],{},": Thank you all so much. I am so grateful to have you all here. Let's kick off into our questions. My first one for you all is,  why is having a company culture, especially one that centers around all the lovely things you all mentioned, why is that all matter? Why is having a comparable company culture matter? Janice, go for it.",[14,1552,1553,1555],{},[52,1554,1541],{},":  Company culture is essential to performance, and people are critical to business results. So understanding what your people are struggling with and being able to support them from mental health and well-being perspectives are critical to achieving business results. And I can pass it on to Patrick or Peter.",[14,1557,1558,1560],{},[52,1559,1505],{},": Thanks. Every company has a culture; whether you like it or not, it has one. The obligation we have as leaders is to make that culture intentional because it will follow gravity if left unattended. And in every culture and every company, there are people who are introverts or extroverts. There are highly ambitious people and people that are happy doing what they're doing. It takes intentionality to give all of those people a place where they can do their best work and where the group can perform well. If you don't do that, you're going to end up with a culture that will attract and reject people. Those people might be some of the best people you want. They may not want to be there anymore if they don't feel like they're in a culture reinforcing what they believe in and giving them the opportunity to do really good work. Let's be here to create an intentional culture that people want to be a part of and bring the best out of them.",[14,1562,1563,1565],{},[52,1564,1516],{},": It's really important. We spend so much of our time working in. As an individual, I enjoy coming to work every day doing something that I enjoy doing, and that's true of everyone. Peters is talking of having a purpose in what you're doing when spending 50% of your time, probably more related to work. It's really important. People can contribute, make a meaningful impact, and work together as a team, and culture essentially sets the basis, a lot of times, for what becomes of that. If you don't intentionally set some of it, it can go awry, as Peter highlighted. Pretty important to stay focused on creating a culture that's inclusive and focuses on what's important for the organization.",[14,1567,1568,1570],{},[52,1569,1530],{},": Cool, and I'll round us out. And I was going to say something similar to Patrick on work is just such a big part of every day, especially now that we all know the world is remote. Work bleeds into our personal lives even more. And what I like most about it is the community aspect of culture; like building culture, humans are literally in the hierarchy of needs, belonging, and safety. They're both to have a hierarchy of needs. And that's what culture brings a sense of belonging and a sense of safety, and just feeling part of a community bigger than, like, more than just a job. People with shared values and beliefs contribute towards the same goals.",[14,1572,1573,1575],{},[52,1574,9],{},": A couple of you mentioned values and purpose and mission being part of that purpose. Can you tell me what are values to you? And how do you think that sort of sets the tone for a culture that is intentional?",[14,1577,1578,1580],{},[52,1579,1541],{},":  Values can be anything for an organization. We value high performance, growth, and family. There could be different organizational values. You attract people who align with your values. If high performance is important to me, it may also mean that I would put in extra work and need to figure out how to balance work in life. Sometimes, if you lean too far into a value, it can cause things like burnout or other issues. So just being aware of what your values are, and there's a pro and a con, perhaps each of the values that you present is one of the things that I think about when I think about a company that will attract me and do my personal values match what the organization says their mission and values are. If you don't have a clear mission and values as an organization, then you would struggle with things like bringing in talent and retaining your talent.",[14,1582,1583,1585],{},[52,1584,1530],{},": I completely agree with Janice. I've always looked to company values at times where I'm trying to make a decision about something. Are we doing right by our customer? Are we doing right by our fellow employees? As an individual, your values are aligned with the company. It's a natural fit, and it makes it easier for you to trust your decision-making. I want to join a company that puts customers first and always does right by the customers and the employees. It could be a guiding principle, or they should be a guiding principle for decision-making across any department in any type of decision.",[14,1587,1588,1590],{},[52,1589,1516],{},": Janice mentioned burnout a little bit. One of the recent experiences, like joining a new company, it's probably been, I mentioned May was when I joined nucleus, and I went 110 miles an hour to start. And I'll tell you, probably 3-4 months and you hit that wall of burnout already. One thing is also being able to take a step back and annually analyze and say, “Okay,”, especially in marketing.",[14,1592,1593],{},"Sales is another big area where there's an indefinite amount of things to be done in any part of the organization. But there are so many different choices to make of things you could do and so many things you could do that you can, especially in high growth security startups, you can spend an indefinite amount of time on work. Spending a lot more time, taking a step back and looking at what things you're going to prioritize and what things you're going to say no to, and helping your team navigate that as well. Because otherwise, it's seemingly chaotic, and that doesn't necessarily help company culture. Setting clear priorities around what's important and not can become incredibly important to dictate culture.",[14,1595,1596,1598],{},[52,1597,1505],{},": There are three tiers of this. There's the company culture, and if you were fortunate to be the company that intentionally went down and wrote down your values, that's awesome because now you have this artifact that you can refer to, like IBM was saying. I was at Unicorn Accumulo, and one of our values was to do the right hard thing. We turned to that a lot when we had to make really tough decisions because the easy one was not going to be the right one. But the hard one came with consequences and heartache. But if you're lucky, you've got a company that's done that, and those are there. But then, to an alien point, you have to live them; as leaders, you have to model them.",[14,1600,1601],{},"And I like what Patrick was saying about he could see that he was burning out and to everybody working on his team to see him check himself. That's super important. When I left my last job, I wrote a blog post about how a company's culture can easily be tracked by how they treat their software or engineer, the role of their software engineers, and the behavior of their software engineers and salespeople. If you have salespeople that bring the order in, but they lied to do it, and there are no consequences, then the organization knows anything goes to get the order. All we care about is results.  The same thing in software engineers behave like tyrants, and that's tolerated. You've just told everybody the culture here is one where tyrants are okay as long as they get the feature shipped. I keep bringing back the term obligation. You have an obligation to the people that work for you to model the values you're trying to get them to follow. In my org, we put a lot of emphasis on continuous education. The search marketing world is changing so fast, and you have to be on top of that. Anybody who takes any courses, you take those courses out of your 40-hour or 50-hour week, you don't do them on the weekends, because they're your job. We'll pay you to take those courses effectively. But I've been in other companies where they said, “You gotta go do all that stuff.” But it's off the clock, and that just doesn't build trust.",[14,1603,1604,1606],{},[52,1605,1541],{},": Modeling your values as a leader is essential to having the culture go from the top down and bottom up. Attracting individuals earlier, having that value alignment, but as a leader, reflecting that value of caring for your people and not burning yourself out, as Patrick mentioned, and being able to take the time off for yourself and showing everyone that it's not all about just performance, that we care about your health and we care about your life as a person outside of work. It's that whole self-approach that leaders must take to keep their talent and get the performance as well.",[14,1608,1609,1611],{},[52,1610,1516],{},": I've been through this experience a few times, but it's very often that people aren't quitting the organization or quitting their leaders. And that's gonna be super mindful of it. As you're bringing in people that are going to be managers, your leaders, what makes a great leades, and then also, I have seen cultures where the people that are the longest assume leadership roles, and they're the worst people qualified sometimes to actually be in that role. If you're going to have that model, get those people lots of training so they understand how to do that. So important. I'm not saying you shouldn't promote people from within, but if you do things arbitrarily based on time, for quote-unquote experience, a lot of times it might be the wrong decision. You have to be really thoughtful of leadership as you start bringing in the first line, second line, and other types of management underneath to sustain the right culture.",[14,1613,1614,1616],{},[52,1615,1530],{},": Totally. An example, just to jump in, that I can give on that is even though open vacation isn't a value, it's part of the culture, and so many organizations are pivoting to it now. And as a manager, the feedback I got for my team previously was they were afraid they didn't know the limit of vacation with the open vacation policy and what's too much. And so I gave the feedback to the executives, CEOs, and founders: you guys need to start taking vacations so that it bleeds down to the rest of the organization. And they're like, \"Okay. If the CEO is taking a vacation, it's okay for me to take a week off here.\" And once we started doing that, they would put their vacation on the calendar, take a day off here and there, take an afternoon off, and we started to see that bleed out. Just people becoming more comfortable with not having to feel weird about taking a vacation. Just an example of a top-down approach working.",[14,1618,1619,1621],{},[52,1620,9],{},": I have a follow-up question about this because it's all really important. I want to come back to it. I want to answer Emily Graham's question: any suggestions for when your team is aligned on values and culture but other teams you work with are not?",[14,1623,1624,1626],{},[52,1625,1541],{},": This is where I mentioned going from the top down. If your team is aligned but another team is not, then something is happening at a higher level that is not matched. And yes, as a peer, you can perhaps go to the other team leader and discuss it. That's one tip that I've always found helpful. I'm hearing this from my team working with your team; can we talk about this? Or if your team is pressuring my team to get things done overnight, when do we need our work-life balance? How do we have that conversation as leaders with each other? And then also thinking about as an executive team and in your HR function, how can we talk as a whole company about giving the skills and the training for our whole organization to address some of these and having the pulse surveys and the feedback from employees so that you know which teams are maybe more aligned than others?",[14,1628,1629,1631],{},[52,1630,1516],{},":  The majority of the time, I see people misaligned. It's because they don't talk to each other. That's the reality. People have misconceptions or expectations, and you only have so much time. It's a balance. A lot of times you're weighing, especially in marketing; you're touching sales, customer success, product, and all these different functions, and then externally facing customers a ton of time. If you really want to build stronger relationships, spending time with those different teams might be like, \"Oh, hey, I have a new PMM starting in a week.\" \"I'm going to have them go live in products for 75% of their time so that we can build that relationship with marketing.\" I don't have the time. I couldn't make the time to do more of that. But it's going to be more impact if a dedicated person on my team to that relationship. Some of the ways I think about it are trying to first build, and then if for some reason, it doesn't work, after you've done all that work, maybe upleveling to a leadership level, as well, from a discussion perspective, to set the tone for the culture overall.",[14,1633,1634,1636],{},[52,1635,1530],{},": Just to follow up on that. This is a really common issue in sales and marketing, specifically, and one thing I've noticed is it always comes down to each individual team's goals and what they care about, which is what they're being measured on. One team won't want to spend time on something or won't want to do something because that's not going to help the amount of touches I get in or the number of meetings I booked this month. Communication is definitely huge, but getting down to the problem first, why aren't we aligned? Do we both have different ideas of what our goal is? Can we align on a common goal that will satisfy our team's needs and initiatives? And that's helped me navigate working, being more aligned with sales, and bringing sales in earlier. I used to just bring in sales when we were ready to launch a campaign and be like, \"Okay, this is everything.\" \"Here's what you need.\" And now I'm bringing sales in more earlier on the conversation of actually, like, campaigning, pre-launching, putting together all of the information together, and targeting and campaign needs, so that sales feels like they are a stakeholder in it and not just, \"Oh, this is just being passed off for marketing.\" So that's a way I've navigated it with sales. But overall, communication, being aligned on goals, and understanding each other's goals is important.",[14,1638,1639,1641],{},[52,1640,1505],{},": Yeah, and that's because they are not mutually exclusive goals. I get asked all the time what the single metric that marketing should measure their success with is and it's revenue. Everybody's there to hit the revenue plan, and the sales team has a different set of metrics they have to keep on top of to know that they're following up on their sales prospects, and marketing has a different set of metrics. But at the end of the day, you're all trying to generate revenue and hit the revenue plan, so this communication and sharing of the objectives is a good foundation. But looking at that question, there are scenarios where the head of marketing and the head of sales don't get along, and the CEO has the obligation. Two full-time jobs ago, I was running marketing, then the head of product left, and I took over the product organization and the engineering team. We were literally in open warfare. There were shouting matches that were happening on the floor. And the CEO sat down with me and the head of engineering and said we got to reset. He looked at the head of engineering and said, \"If we end up with shouting matches in three months, I'm going to know what the cause is,\" because that's two sets of shouting matches with a different player. It was a subtle way of saying, \"I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.\" \"But if it turns out that you were the cause of the shouting matches, I'm going to have to make a change,\" which I thought was a bold leadership move by the CEO. I've worked in organizations where marketing and sales did not get along, and the CEO was very passive. It's just an awful situation when you try to use communication skills. You try and collaborate. If you're one hand clapping, you need the guy at the top, or the woman at the top, to be able to say, \"Okay, how are we going to go solve this?\" and that's rare. A lot of them avoid it.",[14,1643,1644,1646],{},[52,1645,1516],{},":  The other thing, like, the nucleus was high growth early stage, and there's just a lot to be done. I'll pinch it and help out. How can I help write better ADR scripts from a marketing perspective? Ultimately, the more I can help the ADR team or the sales team convert, the better it's going to be for me. Sometimes, it's not even a leadership alignment thing. I'm going to do this and help out because it'll make a big impact for the sales org and marketing. Sometimes, doing that twice a week with ADR is just to help them on. How do we get a higher conversion? How do we push this stuff along and as part of this sales org? This is going to help overall. I'll just do it. Nobody else has the time or capacity, because sales are working on closing deals and processing and all that fun stuff. It's been open and transparent and open where he can to sometimes, depending on what stage you're at.",[14,1648,1649,1651],{},[52,1650,9],{},": I love that. Let's switch gears a little bit, because I love what we're talking about from a holistic standpoint and about company culture and values. Let's talk about the individual standpoint because there is a balancing act between having this company culture, but it's not necessarily and it draws in the right people. That's part of the mission of having a culture with values; it draws in the right people who are going to fit. But that doesn't mean that everybody's the same. How do you support your team on a team level but also on an individual level?",[14,1653,1654,1656],{},[52,1655,1541],{},": I can jump in and share just a little bit about the work I do with meQuilibrium, where there's an individual assessment that every person gets, so you can see what your score is from a resilience perspective. That's one aspect of measuring where you're at as an individual and being able to see your own performance, whether it's how focused I am or how much energy I have, am I positive, or am I getting enough sleep—kind of being able to measure that yourself and then also being able to map that to the values. And so individually, I'm seeing that I'm scoring highly on this, and it aligns with the values of my organization. Being able to measure is the first step, like getting your baseline, and then you can take the action and continue to really identify the areas that you need to continue to improve on. Those are the steps we take individually, at our company, and with the companies, we work with to help support individual resilience.",[14,1658,1659,1661],{},[52,1660,1530],{},": I've used SMART goals in the past, and I've seen that methodology work really well for myself and for other individuals. So SMART is an acronym for specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and time-based. Previously, I had the marketing team; we had a marketing team SMART goal, and then each individual contributor had a SMART goal that contributed to the team goal for the quarter. I also made sure to have my team have personal goals and ask them about them, check in, and just have a conversation about them to see if there's anything I can do to help or anything that the company can do, and just make the conversation easier about. It opened the door. I'm working towards this certification, and my workload is preventing me from finishing it or something. It just made them a bit more comfortable to share, and it also helped you learn about your team as individuals and what they do beyond work.",[14,1663,1664,1666],{},[52,1665,1516],{},": One thing I did recently is, and I'll give credit to Adam Dudley at Nucleus, every single week, we have meetings on the marketing side, essentially for 30 minutes, and comedians on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. We're a small team. There are only three of us; we'll have four soon, and other people are welcome to join. But at the beginning of the week, we read off to each of us what things we're going to be working on, and then we report on them at the end of the week. A few different things. If something's not on that list, it's not a priority. We're okay with saying, \"Okay, let's re-evaluate at the end of the week whether we should do this or not.\" Sometimes there are time-sensitive things that we add, but it also gives an appreciation for the week, like, \"Hey, I got this stuff done.\" And we've made progress because sometimes you can go weeks or months without really appreciating or understanding the things that have been accomplished and done. It gives a sense, especially with people like myself with high anxiety, that you need to be doing more, some things to think about as far as architecting and discussing goals in the success you're having on a consistent basis.",[14,1668,1669,1671],{},[52,1670,1505],{},": We have the last two organizations I've run, we've fully adopted agile and marketing. I had product responsibilities, so we shared the agile coach with the product and dev teams. And that was super helpful because it did give you this chance to look at your forecasting ability over time. At the beginning of this, it was just a horror show; people were missing commitments by weeks because they had never done it before. But after a year, we got good at everybody knowing what I could take on this week or in this sprint, and we rolled it up to six sprint plans. We do what we call \"release planning\" for things like that, knowing that the confidence and the specificity decline as you go out. But that helped create this—I love this term, \"resiliency.\" Because it let people try things, fail, and then realize, \"Well, what did we learn there?\" And \"How do we recover from that?\" And then, on the personal part, we would have a manager sit down with their employee once a quarter and map out a development plan for the quarter. And because we wanted to get away from an annual review, it is almost meaningless. We wanted to get more frequent feedback, so there'd be a quarterly development plan where they could say, \"I want to take these courses,\" or \"I want to have this kind of experience to help bolster me in certain areas.\" But then, weekly or once a month, you needed to pull out the plan and just talk about where you were on it so that, at least on a monthly basis, there was some sort of check-in. People need more frequent reinforcement about how they are doing personally on their development plans then annually or even quarterly is still too much, but between agile and these personal plans. We've got a lot of good feedback that helps support people.",[14,1673,1674,1676],{},[52,1675,1541],{},": Sharing feedback in real time is also essential to building good culture and having the context there. Because if you wait a whole quarter, somebody might not remember what the feedback is, and that's part of your accountability as a leader to share that immediate feedback, ask for immediate feedback, and check your emotions. Sometimes it's better to avoid that shouting match and say, \"Let's talk about this later, but give the feedback when we're feeling a little bit more in control of our own emotions.\" Think about talking about health as well and really giving feedback and understanding that at different stages, people might be facing different issues. What's going on and why might this performance be lagging right now? So being empathetic is also another factor in resilience.",[14,1678,1679,1681],{},[52,1680,9],{},": Let's talk about feedback for a second because this is important. You've all mentioned it in one way or another through this conversation, and we're here. Let's sit with this for a second because feedback is hard to give and receive. I'm reading a whole book about it right now on how to receive it, because no matter how thought for empathetic we are and giving feedback, it's just never taken well, especially when it's tough feedback. So for you all, what's your experience in giving feedback? How do you approach it? How do you lead with that empathy? How do you build it into your culture? People do know—what's going on? I think that can be good feedback, too. Feedback is feedback. You mentioned agile, Peter, and quarterly meetings, so people know: how else are you all delivering feedback? And how do you approach those conversations?",[14,1683,1684,1686],{},[52,1685,1505],{},": It starts with you. You need to be able to admit you were wrong and that you've made mistakes to set a tone that there's nothing emotional. It can feel emotional, but there's a place to be able to say, \"Wow, this didn't work out.\" And now, what are we going to learn from it? I've worked for CEOs who could not admit that they were wrong about anything, which was really unfortunate because they were wrong. And as a leader, you have to be able to model that kind of behavior, but that still doesn't make it easy to sit down and tell someone that it's not working or that something they did did not work. One of the tools we used in a previous job was something called a \"nine box.\" So you measure people on a three-by-three matrix.",[14,1688,1689,1691],{},[52,1690,1516],{},":  I love the nine box.",[14,1693,1694,1696],{},[52,1695,1505],{},": Their leadership potential and their performance, because there's a box in there for everybody except one. But some people are just really good at being individual contributors. Some people have management potential. But it gave us a place to say that this is not working, and why is it because we've asked you to do something that you don't feel comfortable with? Ambition-wise, is it because you weren't trained well, or you're not doing it? It just gave us a better metaphor for having a constructive place for feedback and placing it in the context of where this person wants to be, but I'll go back to it. All begins and ends with you. Sometimes you have to have a really difficult conversation, and you can't sugarcoat it. You can't check it out; you have to do it.",[14,1698,1699,1701],{},[52,1700,1530],{},": Agree. If you have feedback, if something happens in a meeting or on a project, just hop on a zoom, hop on a video, and do it in real time. The longer you prolong it, the harder it becomes to do. But I like to establish with any new hire that we will have weekly one-on-ones, and that is a dedicated time for me to give you feedback and for you to give me feedback. Ask for it from your team. What can I do better to make you more productive and enable you to be more successful, supportive, or whatever it may be? Let the team know that, \"Okay, this is our 30 minutes, and this is a feedback session, bidirectional.\" And that should make it easier to deliver and to receive. Giving feedback with also positive reinforcement touching on something that person did well makes it a bit easier to receive as well.",[14,1703,1704,1706],{},[52,1705,1541],{},": I just wanted to jump in and say yes, modeling the desire for feedback is critical. I let everyone know that I want feedback, whether it's positive or negative, and getting it as soon as possible also helps me. Just really asking for permission to give feedback sometimes can help as well. One tip I had heard was to always say \"thank you\" as soon as you receive feedback and teach others to say \"thank you\" when they receive feedback so that you can pause and think about it before jumping into a response, a rebuttal, or whatever it is that might come into your head for feedback. But having that openness for feedback is a way to open that door.",[14,1708,1709,1711],{},[52,1710,1516],{},":  One interesting observation on the feedback side that I've experienced is a little bit different. When you hire someone, you're setting pretty good expectations with them and bringing them on; at least, I do. I spend a ton of time on it, and I'll be explicit. Is that something that interests you? If not, I don't want you to take a job that's not right for you. One thing I found to be different is when you acquire an existing team and how, because the challenge is you might not even be aligned with their expectations and your expectations are of the role. I can't say I've done this, but you own it. I have done this, and it takes a longer period, but doing it earlier would be better, which means getting aligned with the role. Many times the person before you hired with completely different expectations than what you have of that role, and I found myself doing a little bit is realizing their skills aren't what I thought someone in this role would have. They have great skills. How do you apply those in the right places? So sometimes you're hitting a wall providing feedback when that's just not the skills they're experienced with. Being mindful in most scenarios, when you acquire existing teams that might have much different expectations, is something to be super considerate of. I've experienced it a few times now. If anybody else has an expensive grade point.",[14,1713,1714,1716],{},[52,1715,1541],{},":  Patrick, if I were to tell you, my feedback is you're terrible coder and you're a marketer. That's not going to be helpful feedback.",[14,1718,1719,1721],{},[52,1720,1505],{},": Going back to the modeling part, there was a member of the marketing team two jobs ago whom I just valued so much because she pulled me aside and said, \"You should know that we have something we call a Peter filter on the team because you come up with lots of ideas, and you're always coming down here with ideas.\" We're super busy, and so we have to judge these ideas. You've got a lot to figure out which one of the eight you presented us with this week is worth even exploring. I adored this woman that took some real vulnerability and bravery. It was super helpful to me because then I could not see it anymore. I'm not gonna share this link. I'm not going to suggest this thing. It works two ways.",[14,1723,1724,1726],{},[52,1725,1541],{},": One coach said, \"Your wants are that you can only see at most 80% of yourself.\" So having that mirror reflect that 20% that can help you really grow to that next level is critical.",[14,1728,1729,1731],{},[52,1730,9],{},": In giving feedback, sometimes we tell people the challenges, but we don't always give a solution. So how do you support your team in that growth opportunity? What are some ways that you help them either rise to the occasion or learn a new skill through the courses mentioned? Is there anything else?",[14,1733,1734,1736],{},[52,1735,1541],{},": Sometimes, it's just showing exactly what to do. It depends on the level of who you're training to. Sometimes it's asking the question and seeing how their approach to answering it, and sometimes it is. These are the steps I would take. Can you model that?",[14,1738,1739,1741],{},[52,1740,1516],{},": Yeah, rolling up sleeves. There are a lot of times when you can lead by example, and that can go a really long way with people, and coaching them as well. Because they might have ideas, and there might be some scenarios where you've got to figure it out and take the approach that they have expertise in, and then other things where it's like, \"No, you need to do it this explicit way.\" So hop in the trenches.",[14,1743,1744,1746],{},[52,1745,1505],{},": Give them the permission to fail along the way, or set their expectations that this is new, and then maybe increase the frequency you check in with them. Because it is new, or connect them to other people who are experts. Actually, I do that a lot. I joke with people that I spend 10% of my week connecting people I know with people they know. But if somebody wants to go do something they haven't done before or expand their skill set, a lot of times I will try and connect them to somebody, and I was doing that. Ready to let them have an independent source of guidance.",[14,1748,1749,1751],{},[52,1750,9],{},": We talked a bit about accountability. I'm using that word. I haven't heard y'all say that, but we were talking about supporting an individual with a lot of the things you came up with in terms of goals, sprint planning, and one-on-ones. And all of that is in my mind, giving clear accountability signals. Would you all agree with that? Are there other ways that you let people know that they're being held accountable without necessarily micromanaging?",[14,1753,1754,1756],{},[52,1755,1530],{},": There should be an understanding that we're all adults, and if you're leading a project or are responsible for it, there's an expectation to be accountable for it and deliver, and if they don't have that mentality, then they may not be at the right company.",[14,1758,1759,1761],{},[52,1760,1541],{},": People shouldn't be surprised, and that's one of the things that often happens. If I'm surprised as a manager that somebody's leaving, or if my person is surprised that we're asking them to leave, then something went wrong in that feedback process and accountability process. Clear communication, it's understanding consequences, having kids say, \"If this happens, this happens,\" It's not necessarily micromanaging, but being on the same page, as it relates to consequences, is important in accountability.",[14,1763,1764,1766],{},[52,1765,1505],{},": I love that, and Kerry knows I have a thing called a user manual. That's a one-page document that just explains how I behave and operate and how I expect other people I work with to. One of the statements in the user manual is that there are no penalties for action, but there are serious penalties for inaction. If you're waiting to be told, we have to have a conversation. But if you've run as fast as you can and used your best judgment, and it was the wrong path, at least you ran, and now we know something. You can't have surprises. Letting us know early that this thing is not tracking well is a lot better than the day before it's due and saying we are weeks behind.",[14,1768,1769,1771],{},[52,1770,1516],{},": Move fast and break things approach. Sometimes you have people that maybe work for someone previously where they were taking orders of what to do. You have to break right what they know is another thing that drives an action. Inside, I'm very explicit, especially to own this thing, make decisions, and do stuff, and even if the outcome is 50% of what it could be, that's still way better than where we're at today. We're trying to move from about one out of 10 to three out of 10, and that's progress. Maybe a five out of 10 in continuing to move the needle so it's not obsessing about perfection more about action",[14,1773,1774,1776],{},[52,1775,1530],{},": SMART goals really helped with that. Because if someone had 10 things on their plate to do, the direction given was aligned with a SMART goal. If it's not, then it falls down on the list and isn't a priority. It's giving that autonomy and ownership to make those decisions and use time management with the proper goal setting early on. Project management tools help so that you have a nice high-level view of what everyone's working on and make sure that they know the due dates and everything so there's no confusion on didn't know when this was due or didn't know it was assigned to me.",[14,1778,1779,1781],{},[52,1780,9],{},": If it's not in our product management tool, it either won't happen or didn't happen.",[14,1783,1784,1786],{},[52,1785,1516],{},": I'm the worst offender. I try to get stuff into a project management tool, but sometimes it's a hard. It’s discipline.",[14,1788,1789,1791],{},[52,1790,1541],{},": If you try to do it all yourself, then you will burn out. So that's something that you learn as you go from individual to manager to leader: how do you prioritize your own time and help your team prioritize their time so that they're able to split the work and not try to do it all at once, but be able to if your skill set isn't inputting your projects into your project management tool having an add part, the growth path.",[14,1793,1794,1796],{},[52,1795,9],{},": Let's talk about the results of this. In the last few years, from mostly most companies being in person, most clients not seeing each other, and most cultures being unintentional, which we all talked about how well that goes, where you're not having an intentional culture to this shift, where we are being more intentional, where we are holding accountable because it's a hard shift to make for some people, especially when they feel they can't see their people, what's been the results of this kind of culture from both a company standpoint as well as a business standpoint?",[14,1798,1799,1801],{},[52,1800,1505],{},": Two jobs ago at that company, I was at the marketing team and was able to achieve a 37% close rate from form submission to revenue for inbound leads, which is ten times the industry average, and that's because the team was empowered. They made mistakes, took risks, learned from failure, and successively ratcheted that conversion rate up over 14 months. It wasn't because I said to raise it. It's because of their curiosity; they were just an awesome team that thrived on curiosity and failure.",[14,1803,1804,1806],{},[52,1805,1541],{},": Just the results of good health, we've measured improvements in physical and mental health when you have that culture alignment, as well as reduce burnout of 60% is a stat that we've calculated with our clinically validated research. And then we've also reduced turnover by a pretty extensive amount, so those are all issues like absenteeism and burnout that you reduce, and then you increase productivity, performance, and results, like increased conversions and more sales.",[14,1808,1809,1811],{},[52,1810,1530],{},": Employee happiness, employee satisfaction, and anything work-life balance can be measured, obviously, in team productivity. If teams feel their setups are of success, and they're all bought into a strategy and a plan, they'll naturally perform better.",[14,1813,1814,1816],{},[52,1815,1516],{},":  I agree. The aspect of quality of things goes up when you have the time to actually process and think about it. That's one thing that people don't quantify enough .You need downtime to be able to process things and think about things more strategically. The importance of the individual, mental health and happiness of employees is really important, too. When you ask the simple questions of, like, \"Hey, are you going to be here a year from now?\" and seeing improvements on that, so you want a place where people want to be. They have choice; everyone has a choice of where they want to work and what they want to do. It's incredibly important to prioritize people and culture in that way.",[14,1818,1819,1821],{},[52,1820,1505],{},": The results flow from that. If you create that culture of trust and performance, then you're in a position to get awesome business results. You're also helping people achieve their career paths that they are naming their ambitions. You're helping them feel valued in what they do; you're helping them feel like they can take risks and be rewarded. Results are 100% a function of this culture you're creating for an employee to be the very best.",[14,1823,1824,1826],{},[52,1825,1541],{},": Resilient people lead to resilient organizations and we've seen that resilient organizations outperform in the market. So bottom line is perform for your people.",[14,1828,1829,1831],{},[52,1830,9],{},":  I knew it was gonna happen. Thank you all so much. I'm so grateful that you could all join me, Janice, Patrick, Peter, and Aileen. It's been an absolute honor learning from you all today.",[14,1833,1834],{},"Thank you to our listeners for joining us. If you would like to connect with Janice, Patrick, Peter or Aileen, their links are in the show notes.",[14,1836,1837],{},"Be sure to connect and learn more about the great teams that they're building and how they're doing it. You too, can build a resilient culture company and, ultimately, life.",[24,1839,1841],{"id":1840},"outro","Outro",[14,1843,1844],{},"Thank you again for joining us on this Tech Marketing Leader Roundtable. We'll be hosting this once a quarter so be sure to subscribe to our newsletter so you don't miss the next one.",[14,1846,1847],{},"This roundtable was brought to you by MKG Marketing - the digital marketing agency that helps cyber security and data management platforms get found via transparent, measurable digital marketing.",[14,1849,1850],{},"It’s hosted by me, Kerry Guard - CEO and co-founder of MKG",[14,1852,1853],{},"Music, mix, and mastering done by Austin Ellis.",[14,1855,1856],{},"If you’d like to be a guest, please connect and send me a DM.",[14,1858,1859],{},"I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you all!",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":1861},[1862,1866],{"id":1477,"depth":291,"text":1478,"children":1863},[1864,1865],{"id":1481,"depth":297,"text":1482},{"id":1494,"depth":297,"text":1495},{"id":1840,"depth":291,"text":1841},"2022-10-23T16:10+00:00","Join these tech marketing leaders, as we discuss the importance of balancing your team's well being while trying to hit those lofty quarterly goals.","\u002Fimages\u002Fpexels-min-an-1313814.jpg",{},"\u002Fevents\u002Fculture-that-converts",{"title":1472,"description":1868},[1874,1879,1884,1889],{"name":1505,"title":1875,"company":1876,"img":1877,"url":1878},"Fractional CMO","Authentic Brand","\u002Fimages\u002Fpeter-z-image-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fpeterzaballos\u002F",{"name":1530,"title":1880,"company":1881,"img":1882,"url":1883},"Director of Demand Generation","VISO Trust","\u002Fimages\u002Faileen-casmano-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Faileencasmano\u002F",{"name":1541,"title":1885,"company":1886,"img":1887,"url":1888},"Strategic Partnerships","meQuilibrium","\u002Fimages\u002Fjanice-image-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fjanicedru\u002F",{"name":1516,"title":1890,"company":1891,"img":1892,"url":1893},"VP of Marketing","Nucleus Security","\u002Fimages\u002Fpatrick-image-roundtable.jpg","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fpatrickmgarrity\u002F","events\u002Fculture-that-converts","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fvideo\u002Fevent\u002Furn:li:ugcPost:6968514266760945664\u002F","iPqM02e6L0dkic7ip2-edvPTvdz0lZpwOGeFcdFyFbM",{"id":1898,"title":1899,"body":1900,"date":2271,"description":2272,"extension":318,"img":2273,"meta":2274,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":2275,"seo":2276,"speakers":2277,"stem":2292,"updated":7,"watchOnDemand":2293,"__hash__":2294},"events\u002Fevents\u002Fgreat-resignation.md","The Great Resignation",{"type":11,"value":1901,"toc":2266},[1902,1904,1907,1910,1913,1916,1918,1923,1929,1934,1939,1944,1950,1955,1960,1965,1971,1976,1981,1986,1991,1996,2001,2004,2007,2012,2017,2022,2027,2030,2035,2040,2045,2050,2055,2060,2065,2068,2071,2076,2079,2084,2089,2094,2099,2102,2107,2112,2117,2122,2127,2132,2137,2142,2147,2152,2157,2162,2167,2172,2177,2182,2187,2192,2197,2202,2207,2212,2217,2222,2227,2232,2237,2242,2247,2249,2252,2255,2263],[81,1903,1482],{"id":1481},[14,1905,1906],{},"Hello. I'm Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing, and welcome to this Live Round Table where we're going to discuss the challenges of the Great Resignation, also known as the Great RE-evaluation. People are assessing their careers, job, and company and deciding what’s not working for them, and leaving in for a new career, a new company, a new opportunity. And while I'm immensely proud of these people because they should absolutely love what they do, it is a creative challenge over here in the marketing world and in multiple industries, but definitely in ours as well. And so today, we are going to talk to some marketing leaders. We got Christina and Ruth with us, and we're waiting for Lisa. She'll be on when she can, and I can't wait to add her. She'll be a great addition to the conversation.",[14,1908,1909],{},"We're going to talk today about how the Great RE-evaluation has affected us and what, most importantly, we're doing about it. Because both Ruth, Christina, and Lisa have all worked across the agency and brand side, we thought this would be a great opportunity to lean into a little bit of that relationship, given we all need each other right now. Times are tough. And so, having each other on both the brand and agency side and making sure that that's a strong partnership is crucial right now more than ever. So that's what we're going to dig into. I'm excited for the conversation needs to be awesome—a little bit of housekeeping and a little bit of time to give Lisa. So, hop on here!",[14,1911,1912],{},"Before I launch into introductions and questions, I just want to make some promises to you as the audience or listeners that we will keep the discussion on the topic. It’s why you’re here and what we’ll honor. This isn’t about our companies or selling. This is an honest, authentic conversation with real experts who are living and breathing this challenge and how we can learn from them in applying it to our own brands.",[14,1914,1915],{},"For those listening, please engage in the comments. We have AnDrae’ Jones and Mike Krass hanging with you all. They’ll be there to field your comments over to me for our guests to answer at the end. We'll make sure to leave time because we want to hear from you too. They’re great. Thanks, AnDrae’ and Mike!",[81,1917,1495],{"id":1494},[14,1919,1920,1922],{},[52,1921,9],{},": Are you ready?",[14,1924,1925,1928],{},[52,1926,1927],{},"Christina Kay",": I think so. Let's go!",[14,1930,1931,1933],{},[52,1932,9],{},": Alright! I always want to start off with a question during the introduction. So a chance for you guys to say your name, what you do, but also your journey. You know, let's give some background to how you went from agency to brand or brand to agency or back and forth. So what's your name? What do you do, and what's been your experience? I'll start with you, Christina.",[14,1935,1936,1938],{},[52,1937,1927],{},": Perfect. Hi, y'all. I'm Christina Kay, VP of Marketing at Reseller Ratings. We're a startup. So it's kind of like the agency world in the sense that you do so many different things. I run operations for our CS Sales and Marketing, as well as all of our campaigns for marketing, and am just the head of our Tech Stack. And then I ping pong between the agency and marketing. My whole entire career, I started out in an agency. Then, I went to an international agency and then came to the States. I did brand, and then I just basically was a ping pong ball until now I'm back on the brand side, and I love it. And yeah, that's about me.",[14,1940,1941,1943],{},[52,1942,9],{},": Alright, Ruth.",[14,1945,1946,1949],{},[52,1947,1948],{},"Ruth Wisniewski",": Awesome! My name is Ruth Wisniewski. I am a Customer Success Team Manager here over at BrightEdge. We are a software as a service. We specialize in SEO. I, too, have gone back and forth between both brands and agency life. I actually started on the brand side and was curious. I wanted to explore my options and work at the agency side, and that's where I got pulled into the digital side of agency life. So that is where my expertise lies, the digital aspect of that agency life and brand side. My career path was a little bit interesting. In that, I got my healthcare master's at one point, because I worked at the Cleveland Clinic in their Marketing Department. And somehow, I've been able to leverage that here at BrightEdge, having a book of business that I supported for a while before becoming a manager where it was very healthcare-oriented. But I love both sides. And I can't wait to get into this discussion. So, Kerry, I don't know if we want to start questions.",[14,1951,1952,1954],{},[52,1953,9],{},": Yeah, we'll kick it off when Lisa hops soon. I'll be sure to take a minute to have her introduce herself and then have her join in. But I think we can keep on, keeping re-live. This is a re-live, right? Awesome. So I want to kick off with the idea of the Great Resignation, or I love how somebody put it as the Great Re-evaluation. I thought that was so cool. I saw that on LinkedIn. What does that mean to you both? I mean, we all sort of have different experiences and different points of view on this. So Ruth, what does the Great RE-evaluation mean, in your opinion?",[14,1956,1957,1959],{},[52,1958,1948],{},": Right. I think this stems from people, during the pandemic, having a little more downtime to be thoughtful. We weren't traveling, we weren't commuting, we were in our homes, and we were kind of evaluating what matters to us. And your career is such a big part of your life, and getting joy and happiness from what you do is so important. I think that it definitely was what steemed it. So what it meant to me was, you know, seeing colleagues that I loved, and deciding to take flight and explore new challenges and opportunities, and being able to support them, but also, at the same time, having a new point of view to join our organization, and new blood and new enthusiasm, like this refresh comes in. And so it's been a celebration, for sure, across the board, it's had its challenges. I think that having those brands and agency life has helped with that. We need to pull in the agency to act as an overflow or expansion of resources and a way to tap into expertise. And at the same time, you know, on the brand side, being able to understand where we need to pull people in, do some recruiting, and really speak to what matters to them. Oh, Lisa's here!",[14,1961,1962,1964],{},[52,1963,9],{},": Lisa, welcome.",[14,1966,1967,1970],{},[52,1968,1969],{},"Lisa McDermott",": Hello! Funny story. Andrae and I were hanging out in a different room. I mean, we were having our own little party, but it wasn't this party. Hello!",[14,1972,1973,1975],{},[52,1974,9],{},": Hello, welcome to this party. We're excited that you were able to hop over. I'm so sorry, that's technology!",[14,1977,1978,1980],{},[52,1979,1969],{},": Happy to be here. Nice to see you ladies.",[14,1982,1983,1985],{},[52,1984,9],{},": Lisa, if you could just give us a little bit of where you are right now in terms of who you're working for and your title, as well as, we were talking about the agency and brand life, so you've lived both. What's your journey there?",[14,1987,1988,1990],{},[52,1989,1969],{},": Sure. So right now, I'm at a company called Acqueon Technologies, or Acqueon for short. I'm the Vice President of Marketing, and I'm new there, I just celebrated my one month. So it's been quite a month. It's been an adventure, but a really good one. Acqueon is in the contact center and like kind of a customer experience space there and AI-powered integration that clips in with all the major enterprise contact center platform providers that you probably know about, like Cisco, Avaya, five9, ANICINCOM, AWS connect, and so forth. And so they power really advanced, sophisticated outbound campaign management and, you know, conversational engagement. We're just transforming the landscape of customer engagement. So that's where I am now. And I'm, like, obviously, on the client-side of the world right now. Prior to Acqueon I was with a company called CoreDial that just got acquired. I was there for about four years as the Vice President of Marketing and also on the client-side, but then prior to CoreDial I was on the agency side of the world for almost a decade now probably eight years, working at an agency called Stratus Interactive right in the West Chester, Pennsylvania area, which is near Philadelphia, which I'm sure you know, Kerry, and we were like a full-service digital agency like full service integrated digital. We were HubSpot Platinum Partner. So totally different world than what I'm living in now but kind of the path that I took was, I was on the agency side. We had a client, many clients, but CoreDial was one of them. And CoreDial just kind of, I think, had really tried the agency model for many years and never quite found what they were looking for like they tried to build an in-house marketing department and hadn't quite worked. But that's really what they wanted. And so they just kept trying to see, you know, maybe if there was an appetite for some of the Stratus agency folks to come inside, and well, eventually we did. And so I transitioned over from working at the agency to coming full time into CoreDial. That's kind of how I made the switch, and I'm very happy on the client-side of the world right now.",[14,1992,1993,1995],{},[52,1994,9],{},": Awesome. We were just talking about the Great Resignation, also known as the Great RE-evaluation, and Ruth, thank you for giving your point of view and what it means to you. Christina, what does it mean to you this new turn of events?",[14,1997,1998,2000],{},[52,1999,1927],{},": Yeah, so a lot of the points Ruth hit on our 1,000% spot on what I feel with this as well. And the thing that we say a lot at Reseller Ratings is finding the right people for the right seat, because you can find the best marketer, best salesperson, but maybe might not be the seat that you're in at the company, things like that.",[14,2002,2003],{},"Everybody is a different personality, and things work out ways that they do but with the Great Resignation and just with a pandemic, I feel like people have really, this is gonna sound very Lovey Dovey, I guess, but they found like themselves, self-awareness, many things, and they found things that are right for them. So for us, that's super good when we are like interviewing or have positions open, because we can really find that person that's authentic, not saying everybody's not, but I'm just saying in this aspect of like interviewing people really do like, show their true self because of the pandemic or like , part of me, I want to be fully remote, like, I need these benefits, because we're still in it. At the beginning of it, if you live alone, you don't know really what's going on in a sense. And so you really do have to, like find that love of being with yourself. And I think that's translated in the workplace to really show passionate people that they love working for great leaders, as long as maybe that's like ‘’Hey, I want to work for myself, and I'm gonna leave’’ And that's a huge thing that I've seen. And then on like, the side of finding work, or I mean, finding work, finding people, but finding like agencies, I've seen it both ways, like being on a waiting list for an agency. Like that's not a thing I've ever heard of really, but that also one shows agency, that they respect their employee saying ‘’Hey, they already have too much to do’’ Because in my day at some agencies, not MKG, but some agencies, it was just so much like another client, like ‘’What?’’ you know, so I feel like the great resignation has helped transform people's mindset of business, and it's not just all about money. It's about people's like well-being and happiness, and that translates. If you are on the client-side, it really translates to that CS side because then you're going to be happier talking to your clients. And you're gonna have that more authentic approach.",[14,2005,2006],{},"I feel in every aspect, it's almost a good thing and but it's stressful because especially if you have to be the copywriter, but also designing things and doing marketing automation. Like yes, that's a lie. But that's where maybe you go to like Upwork or something like that, to find that person just to kind of be there until you find that person that's perfect for that seat in your company.",[14,2008,2009,2011],{},[52,2010,9],{},": Not a hat, the hats. Lisa what has the Great RE-evaluation meant to you?",[14,2013,2014,2016],{},[52,2015,1969],{},": I mean, it's meant like things to me personally, just because I have kind of been part of it from a couple of different ends now, like obviously, being a leader through the Great Resignation, having to transition a team during COVID to fully remote work for the first time ever. Hiring, seeing people turn through that, but also being someone who was looking for their next career opportunity through this phase of Great Resignation and RE-evaluation. I've seen it from a couple of different angles and experienced it on multiple levels. And for me personally, what it meant I think in my past life, like in going into other things like career opportunity searches, I prioritized different things and probably wasn't as confident in being vocal or not negotiating about the things that were important to me. And I think just knowing that so many people were reevaluating, and we were becoming more self-aware, like, it just gave me greater confidence to say, \"You know what, these are the things that are important to me right now.\" Like, for example, and I think it's a guy, I don't think my leadership would mind me sharing this. They were trying to build and are trying to build a hub of employees in the Dallas, Texas area, and they asked me if relocation was something I would consider. And they asked me more than once, and more than one person asked me, and for me, that just was like, No! I can't. It's not something I'm going to do at this stage in my life, but being on the side of a job search and really wanting to find your next thing so passionately. I don't know if anyone can relate to this. I've found myself almost second-guessing like, well, it isn't that important to me. Maybe I would be considered a low relocation, and I should chat with my husband after this interview, but no, of course, I am not going to relocate. That's definitely a hard no for me. You know that this is just like an environment where I felt very confident in saying the things that I really meant. So that's kind of how I personally experienced it. But being someone now who's trying to build a team in a new company and being on the recruitment side of the world, I'm just one of several leaders and hiring managers within my company who are trying to build a team right now.\nAnd so recruitment really is, like, a collaborative effort. It's hard. There are a lot of awesome jobs out there, and candidates really have their pick of the litter. And no, it's a lot more than just offering a good salary and good benefits and talking about culture being, but I mean, people really are in a position of power right now, which just have been a job search candidate, like I appreciate, and I'm glad that people are in a position of power, but being the hiring manager looking to build a team, I'm like ''Dang! This is hard right now.\" So there's just a lot going on. But no matter what, no, even though the recruitment process was so labor-intensive, sometimes I feel exhausted, like, I'm so happy that there's been this shift, like more power to all these people out there looking for jobs. And it's making people like me and hiring managers like rising to the occasion and really come through, do what we want to do, or say we're going to do, and give people a reason to say yes to our job, which I think makes us step up to be better leaders, overall. So I mean, pros and cons, but I'd say more pros.",[14,2018,2019,2021],{},[52,2020,9],{},": Countability, for sure. Leadership 100%. And finally, what are y'all doing about it, Christina? What are some solutions you are looking into? I know that we have and this is pretty new. It started last April, where we started to see the increase of people leaving their jobs. So I'm not saying you guys have your silver bullets in your back pocket, although, you know, if you have, feel free to share, so what have you tried and what's worked and what hasn't?",[14,2023,2024,2026],{},[52,2025,1927],{},": So, a couple of things. We really have found luck. Well, I say \"we,\" but our CEO, he like finds gold mines on Upwork, I'm not very good at doing that. He does a very good job at it. So we have a lot of our dev team that we're finding comes in full time from them. Another thing is that not everybody loves this, but me being like the tech automation nerd that I am, I've done a lot of AI stuff that would be in place of a person.\nA lot of automation and processes I put in place that are in place of people. I'm not saying we're over-engineering or like doing that to get people out, that's not what I mean by any means, but there are some things that can be automated with really great AI solutions. We have a tech tool that is crazy incredible that's helping us prospect and like book demos at a BDR wood, because a BDR you can find when probably is fairly a BDR like entry-level like SDR I guess you can say, salesperson, you can find them, but there's a lot of training involved in it. But if you're already wearing so many hats, that's taking time off from that.",[14,2028,2029],{},"We just have to find out what's going to drive the business for us and what our goals are. So that's why, for us, we're looking in the sense of a lot of that automation AI side, because I love that. And it's the crazy things that you can do with it, not just on the sales side, but also with CS, which we're doing right now. What we're doing as well is, to be honest, we're not posting the jobs that we're really looking for. It's kind of talking to people and seeing, like, if I have friends, I've got a pretty big network. And so I just kind of see what they're doing and I'm like, hey, if they're in the line of work or they've done something similar to what we're looking for, let's have a conversation, and then at that point that you find that perfect person for the seat instead of having people apply. Because when you apply, you're putting on your best face, in a sense, and sometimes you don't realize what you're getting. That sounds bad. But you know what I mean in the nicest way. But when you really go to people and say, \"Hey, we have this amazing role, we think you're perfect for it'' or ''I think you're perfect for it. Let's write your job description. \" And I'm going to pitch you to my CEO, basically. That's what I've been doing, and it's been working fairly well. There's like one area that we're just struggling with, but there's that's for everybody. I feel this just because it's very competitive in this world. You're on mute.",[14,2031,2032,2034],{},[52,2033,9],{},": Yeah! It's just melting, so competitive. It's tough out there. Lisa, and Ruth, you guys. Would you have tried reaching out to kick us off? What have you tried lately? What's been working for you or not?",[14,2036,2037,2039],{},[52,2038,1948],{},": It's good! Well, we have recruiters in-house that are definitely helping us. But I think the conversation to Lisa's point earlier about being able to like say ‘’No’’ when she didn't want to move or relocate. That transparency, I think, has been very helpful. I think people being more honest with their wants and needs in a role has allowed us to say okay, this isn't gonna work much faster but also this is a good much faster. So I think that the speed to placement has been helped through honesty, because people are empowered. And when they're empowered to ask the right questions and surface up the right concerns, I can answer them. So for me, that's, that's been something as far as filling seats and rolls during this. I guess I'll throw it over to Lisa. Next.",[14,2041,2042,2044],{},[52,2043,1969],{},": Kerry, I think you brought up a really good point, in terms of the speed of placement. I've been part of organizations in the past, and I remember when I started my job search a couple of months ago, I was seeing a lot of LinkedIn posts about 6,7,8,9 step interview processes. Luckily, I didn't have to go through anything that intense to land where I am now, and I can appreciate and respect a thorough interview process, but what it's done for me now being in the position where I need to hire and build a team is to be much more purposeful and prepared for every interview I come into because I don't want to have that person go through four or five, or six interviews. I might lose a good candidate if I can't say \"yes\" by interview number two or three, right? I mean, that's happening. It's just making me much more critical about the questions I'm asking and probably a little bit more direct and candid, like in those initial conversations. I think that's a good thing. The other thing, just to comment on what's working for me personally right now, I mean, LinkedIn has been awesome, and just being proactive with my voice about what I'm looking for and helping my colleagues promote their positions as well—but tapping into my network. I forgot who said that but I think it was you, Christina. I'm tapping in.\nI've gotten so many awesome resumes from previous colleagues and friends from LinkedIn somewhere who are sending their referrals my way, and I think that's my silver bullet personally. And it's not like about who you know, and it's just like a faster path to feeling good about a person because we're interviewing strangers right when it really comes down to it, and you're right, people are probably putting on their best face as they should during the interview process. And so I have someone who I at least have some established level of acquaintanceship or trust with and they recommend someone to me. I'm so grateful for that. Because it already like establishes, you know, we've gotten to like a second base, or we've gotten half of the way through establishing that initial report just because there is a referral and not a total random resume coming through. So I'm going to continue to do that. Because I feel like that's going to be where I find the most success and the best people for sure, that's been a little weird, though. I mean, it really feels like I'm selling myself constantly on LinkedIn, which is not necessarily my comfort level. But I'm like, you know, \"Come, come here! Choose us, look at us, like we're hiring. But I see a lot of other very respected companies and colleagues doing that as well. I feel like you have to do that, right? Otherwise, you're just going to get lost in the shuffle.",[14,2046,2047,2049],{},[52,2048,9],{},": Let's shift gears a little bit because one of the solutions we talked about and why I brought you guys, specifically you gals, specifically because of your experience of living on both the agency and the client-side. And I feel like one of the things you guys all talked about in the great resignation was leaning on your agency partners a bit more to try to find the right agency fit. Given the tough times, we're in? So have you been doing that? What's been the experience thereof bringing in partnerships for help? I'll start with Ruth.",[14,2051,2052,2054],{},[52,2053,1948],{},": Absolutely! So I would say I am not part of my marketing team, per se. But what I do is help my clients use our internal agency or consulting resources. And so, for my clients, I'm finding that it's super important that they can flex. And when they need additional resources, have someone like myself ask for that additional resource. When they need to pull back as well, like if there are budget cuts, maybe, you know, COVID has hit their industry hard, being able to say, ''Okay, can we get creative here and how we reevaluate things commercially.\" And so I'm seeing it work for a broadband of industry types and clients, and being creative and flexible, and understanding of where everybody's coming from has been really good for us and has really strengthened our relationships with our clients.",[14,2056,2057,2059],{},[52,2058,9],{},": Lisa, Christina, anything to add?",[14,2061,2062,2064],{},[52,2063,1969],{},": Yeah, I'm a big proponent of leaning on agencies. I'm a big fan of hiring them for specific skill sets that I think are especially difficult to hire for or just that I think are best served by an agency. So, like lots of digital, paid search, and SEO, I've always found success in using an agency model for that. And so, stepping into this new role, I knew they had an SEO and like a paid search vendor, but you never know what you're inheriting with the stack of vendors and agency partnerships. I was really pleasantly surprised when the vendor that I stepped into was an awesome one.",[14,2066,2067],{},"I know some people come into a new role, and they want a clean slate, kind of hiring everyone, the way that they want to hire everyone and work with the exact agencies that they're comfortable with. And I take a different approach, like, I think if I'm new to the role, and there's an agency that's been on board with the team in place for longer than I have, then there's probably something I can learn from that. If it doesn't end up being the right fit, we'll figure that out and maybe part ways in the future, but I'm certainly not going to come in and just to clean shop. I personally think that's not the approach that works for me at least. But I think one thing, and this isn't necessarily commenting on the agency side of the world, but as we try to figure out how to build our team, recruit, find the right candidates, like where to plug in agencies and not, I think there's also value in this. It kind of speaks to your point about using AI right to look for resources, to find ways to tap into the current team members that I have not even just in the marketing department, but maybe in, you know, an aquatic team or in the sales team. And, you know, while we are trying to figure out what agents can go with, like, I think we talked about this in our prep call.",[14,2069,2070],{},"I think the best agency relationships work when they're given the ability to succeed by having parameters of good directive. And I think that if we can compile the information we need from not just the marketing team, but like the other. No parallel are aligned departments. We can set agencies up for even better chances for success and that's one thing I'm doing right now, trying to get as much as I can from the team members that are in house to get really good information over to the agencies that are already in place, so that they can fly and flourish. Because I don't want to have to find your agency, I don't want to have to hire if we've got an agency that's already doing a killer job at what they were hired to do. And I just want to make that successful. But agencies are hard to find. Yeah, I think good agencies are hard to find. There are a lot of awesome ones out there, but there's a good chance that they've got a full plant list, right? There might be a waiting list now. So you know, it's a struggle.",[14,2072,2073,2075],{},[52,2074,1927],{},": And like one thing that we're doing, we're not looking right now for our agency because we want our foundation set. Before we do that so that we can set them up for success, I'm not saying we don't have some type of foundation, but we're like a 10-year-old startup. Our CEO and CRO bought the company from the parent company about two years ago. So we're still figuring out our identity. We know it fairly well, but we kind of want to go where we want to go, and that foundation set is crucial.",[14,2077,2078],{},"We went through a big migration recently, and a lot of things that we're working through, just like processes, and just our own thinking, if we want to rebrand for different things, there are just a lot of things we want to decide first. And we've even thought about doing kind of a fractional consultant for a little bit. To help with that, just because we really want that foundation set before we have that agency partnership, because I want an agency partnership that we work with for like years because you could really build together. And that's gonna end me being in the agency world, I've been at an agency where they have clients that have for years, and it's a lot. So I feel like I don't want to put that agency in that position. I want to give them almost like, not a plan. But saying things like, \"This is what we've done.\" \"This is where we came from,\" This is where we want to go,'' And like ''Let's do this together.",[14,2080,2081,2083],{},[52,2082,9],{},": I think that's so key to this conversation around. What sets agencies up for success Lisa and Christina? You both mentioned on the brand side, what you feel like sets agencies up for success, before I flip it in terms of how agencies can ensure their success. Ruth, do you have anything to add from having worked on the brand side of, like, anything we serve? Christina didn't mention that you feel like is critical to setting up an agency to be successful and to be around for lots of years.",[14,2085,2086,2088],{},[52,2087,1948],{},": Just kind of a nuance just like Lisa's talking about coming into a new agency, right? She started a new role, inherited people, giving them the opportunity to see how things are the lay of the land, how things were going, and they seemed to be going really well. So that's awesome. But a nuance of making sure and ensuring that the success continues understands what they can bring to the table and giving them that opportunity whenever there's a new initiative internally shared with the agency, right? We assume we know everything, but that agency is growing at the same time we're growing. So, when we allow them to pitch us a little bit, like bring forth what they can do more frequently, we learn about that. And they already have a relationship there. So they say the expansion is natural. So for me, on the brand side, that's always been something that I've tried to make sure that I'm always receptive to that, and allow that, learn from it, and listen to it. And then the opportunity, like I said, it's just an act, a natural augmentation of hope that we've already got going all that good energy.",[14,2090,2091,2093],{},[52,2092,9],{},": I love that. Yes! Let's flip it. How can agencies ensure that they have what they need to be successful? What was your experience like? Have you walked into any brand relationships and felt like something was missing? Or do you have a good example of where they set you up for success? What does success look like on the agency side?",[14,2095,2096,2098],{},[52,2097,1969],{},": I can start at ..I have a pretty opinionated response to that. So I have worked with really good clients, and it was clear that they were professionals that using agencies and knew how to optimize that relationship. And then there were clients who were coming in and expecting that agency to be like the saving grace that figured it all out for them without them putting in the legwork, which is so difficult to deal with on the agency side. And so I think that if you're on the agency side, and you are presented with a client who is just coming in and waving flags, and they're excitable, and they've got all these ideas, but they don't really provide a deeper level insight into what their goals are, why they're excited about these ideas, that's a red flag for me.",[14,2100,2101],{},"Well, it's never fun to squash someone's momentum and excitement. You also have to bring a level of realism and set the table with realistic expectations and ask, I asked a ton of questions, like if I don't understand something, and I've got one hour with this client a week for us to come together. And then I'm supposed to go off with my team and make magic happen. You better believe that I'm walking away from that hour conversation knowing exactly what that person wants, and they're gonna have to breathe a little and answer the questions in a way that shows that they actually do know what they want. And they didn't just like, see the meeting, pop up on their calendar and say, \"Oh, I got my agency today.\" Let me just like, run into that meeting and get everyone excitable and Tasmanian Devil my way in there. And then they leave everyone in a tizzy. When I leave that one-hour call like that, it's not a recipe for success, in my opinion.",[14,2103,2104,2106],{},[52,2105,1927],{},": I think on that.. it's like really, in the beginning, having those or if you're walking into a situation, kind of talking about those expectations. Because what someone hears is an expectation, which could be how someone else translates it differently. And you kind of have to, like, spell it out in the sense just because you don't want to get to the QBR, and they're like, \"This is not what we talked about.\" They're like, \"Yes, it is,\" you know like we know. So I feel like really starting from the beginning and kind of having those, if you have it like weekly, monthly, bi-weekly, whatever, just kind of having that checkpoint in the beginning and saying, \"This is the strategy for like Q1, and maybe we're going to talk about the goals for like key to going forward\" but you kind of want to break it down because, as I've learned too, if you talk just like yearly, it can get overwhelming, or can get you too excited and then you don't really focus on that goal that you're trying to build out for the year because you have to start somewhere to get to that bigger goal, for example, I like freelance and I have a client that is a startup, and they're on HubSpot, and I love HubSpot. I sometimes need to like before they call me \"We can do this\". We could do this, you know I'm like, basically like a puppy, but I have to set myself back. It's like, Christina, this is our priority. This is what we need to do first, and then you can show them the shiny stuff that you can do with it after, kind of have to like ''I could be that person''. I'm not like, \"Yeah, just get excited.\" But then it's like, okay, let's break it down by also maybe their journey, like a customer journey map, and just say this is a priority for like Q1, Q2, Q3 Q4, but then it could obviously snowball into other things, and you do have to say then, \"Hey, this is coming up as it looks like it could be a priority.\" What should we take off the list, because you can't do everything, and it could be out of scope. And I've been to places that are like, \"Oh, just add it,\" and you're like, \"Awesome\" or \"Great\". You that adds like 10 hours to your week may be in that light work-life balance. And then it gets into that bad stigma of what agency life could be, but if an agency is set up to really fulfill people's work-life balance in the way MKG does a great job at, it really shouldn't be a thing. You have to be really transparent both ways. And sometimes it's a hard conversation, but they will respect you more in the long run.",[14,2108,2109,2111],{},[52,2110,9],{},": I want to touch on something that both Ruth and Christina said. Ruth mentioned that it's from the client's side to go in and to make sure that if you need something, you bring in your existing agencies and let them pitch, which I love. On the foot side, an agency going on foot, Christina says, is like having all these great ideas and wanting to know how to explode from your person all over the clients. Definitely not a good idea. However, do you wait for the client to tell you that they want these ideas, or should you be bringing them ideas? Where's the balance in that?",[14,2113,2114,2116],{},[52,2115,1927],{},": What I do with like my freelance clients, I have a golden star doc, like Google Doc. And I just kind of have a shareable document of just all the ideas going through that we can share. Then during our meetings, we can either like redline them or not, even through that, just throughout the week. Whatever we can say, hey, so that at this point, too, it's kind of like a collaborative effort ongoing, and you don't have to like focus on that hour. Because sometimes you can, like, get off on tangents or something. But this, you can also learn how their brain works, how they process stuff, how they comment on things and just having that open dialogue with just like, \"You're golden'' or even, like, \"You're still Silver Bullet ideas,\" stuff like that because you don't want to like, obviously, do like a fire hose to them. You don't want that either on the receiving end. So just being like opening on the same, okay, maybe like a wish list, or what's your whatever, make it a fun, cute name, and have it just be a collaborative thing. That's what I've done. And I've definitely seen myself perform better with that, as well as just it's really fun to get to know the client in that sense as well.",[14,2118,2119,2121],{},[52,2120,1948],{},": I love the ongoing list idea, Christina. I'm totally gonna adapt that. Oh, my goodness! I'm losing my voice. Sorry. But I think another thing that I found successful in that partnership and collaboration and ideas and like giving them the ideas, but not overwhelming them on every call. And it's actually like carving out time for that. Like, I think, Christina, you also brought up quarterly business reviews and having goals at a quarterly, like allocating some time during that for like forward-looking idea generation or new services have you thought of and, you know. So carving out time specifically for \"what are the new opportunities?\" or \"how can we help you, here's what we've got on our side'' It shouldn't just be a report out or goal setting. There should be a little bit of brainstorming and collaborative effort, creativity going on. I find that works.",[14,2123,2124,2126],{},[52,2125,1927],{},": Because it also builds trust. That completely builds trust and transparency and just a better relationship, in my opinion.",[14,2128,2129,2131],{},[52,2130,1969],{},": One of the recent agencies that I worked with did it that way, like they built that creative time, that innovation time into their retainer, and we agreed upon it, like I knew that a portion of their monthly bandwidth would be devoted to just like coming up with some out of the box, or maybe not out of the box, but just like more creative ways to do things. But I knew that that innovation and creative time were being spent on things directly aligned with our goals, like that we had already agreed upon. So I was comfortable with that and now granted, like, I needed to make sure that our priorities, deadlines, and deliverables that we had agreed to get completed. And if they weren't, for some reason, then sometimes that, you know, like a cushion of creative time did have to be allocated to that. But more times are not, they were able to come to the table with some fun new things and ideas, which I love because if I could figure it all out myself, I would. Like, otherwise, like I love working with, you know, really smart people to come up with awesome ideas that I haven't thought of myself or didn't have time to focus on myself and just like thinking through this. So like, if I went back to the agency side of the world because I used to be in like business development for our agency, it could be a really cool value outline item to throw in, like if the client wasn't comfortable with devoting a portion of their retainer time to that, like that could be just a value-add, like every month to give you a few hours of time for innovation, like no cost. It's just like how we add additional value. Like, I went back to my contracts and my proposals. I think that would have resonated really well because every hour matters. There is work to get done. So sometimes that's looked at as a luxury, whereas it's a really fundamental and vital part of any agency-client relationship is having that carve out time.",[14,2133,2134,2136],{},[52,2135,1948],{},": And I have..",[14,2138,2139,2141],{},[52,2140,1927],{},": Sorry, you can go.",[14,2143,2144,2146],{},[52,2145,1948],{},": I was just gonna say it actually fits into what we know is a good marketing plan, right? There are tactics and channels that are going to continually perform for us. But we should always be testing something small and unique that we haven't done before. And if we don't collaborate and get creative and brainstorm and have that innovation time, like how are we ever going to get those metrics that could be the next superstar in our marketing plan that really generate new revenue. So I feel like diversification of a marketing plan is super important. This actually fits into this. Agencies coming with a book of business across industries can take an idea that works in one cross-pollinates it for you. So I absolutely love all of that.",[14,2148,2149,2151],{},[52,2150,1927],{},": Yes. And I was kind of .. to both of you. I feel like when you do those innovation types of conversations, you can't, and you give feedback. You can learn more about your client because you can say what they do or don't want. And obviously, the burn has to be honest back and everything like that. But also, on the cross-pollinating mindset, I think, I've been to a couple of agencies. You're not always working on this brand, but someone from that brand, or a different brand, comes and looks and kind of does an audit of what you're doing. Because if you're in that brand all day, you're going to think like not tunnel vision, but having someone else in your company working with a brand, or maybe a completely different industry comes in and looks at what you guys are doing. They can even also probably spark some ideas, or even if it gets a little stale, they can come in and help you guys out instead of having you lose a client because of that. Maybe someone internally comes in and just audits what you guys are doing, not saying anything's bad, but just kind of sparks that energy again and says, \"Hey'' like ''Maybe this is what we're doing. Let's do this,'' And that's maybe an internal meeting, like meeting that account manager have at an agency or even just social teams, like whatever it is, having Slack channels that you can just pop ideas. And hey, like this really worked for X client, like this is what we did. If you want to learn about it, I did a two-minute loom, and then we can go on into your next team member, and you can learn something.",[14,2153,2154,2156],{},[52,2155,9],{},": I love limb. Sorry all, my internet dropped me. So thank you for keeping on keeping on. I think this brings in a really great question around when you bring an agency and what should an agency own versus what should really be in house? I feel like that's sort of a struggle. So in your experience, you know, what do you need to have in place to bring that agency in? And what are you giving them? What are you holding on to?",[14,2158,2159,2161],{},[52,2160,1948],{},": I would love to answer that. Okay, so I think it depends on the organization that you're in, right? You're going to have a certain amount of talent in your organization that you can absolutely leverage, and you're going to have a certain amount that you need to tap into an agency. You'll look at the current pool of internal resources and say, \"Wow, we have a lot of expertise in XY and Z. What we don't really understand yet is paid marketing. So let's talk to an agency about search engine marketing and paid marketing, and let's see what they can bring and evaluate them'' If there's no internal expertise on it, it's not something that I would want to invest dollars and fail. So for me, when I come into the brand side of things, I am always looking at who am I currently working with? What resources and knowledge do they know? I'm not gonna set anyone up for failure when I know that we can tap into an agency.",[14,2163,2164,2166],{},[52,2165,1927],{},": You can go, Lisa.",[14,2168,2169,2171],{},[52,2170,1969],{},": I just think content for me. And I mentioned this, I think to you, ladies, last time when we were chatting. Content is just something I've personally struggled with, like being on the agency side, like ever, just like finding the exact right voice that the client didn't feel the need that they had to revise. And I really feel like if a client's gonna hire an agency, for them to have to revise work, like, yes, it's a natural part of the process, but also like, it would be so nice for them to not have to do that. But it's such a personal thing, the voice and the tone of a brand and the content that you know, maybe like ad copy, really like kind of short-form content, I find like is an easier thing to partner with agencies on but longer-form pieces and pieces that really just like I don't know, exude the brand and the voice of the brand. I like having someone in-house that, and you know, I'm 10 years into this whole agency, and client-side thing, and I stick by that, you know, that's where I've found, and it doesn't have to be a team of content writers. It can be one really solid content writer, or even a really solid subject matter expert who maybe doesn't deem themselves a writer but can write and produce content for them the agency to make look good and polish it up and like as long as there's someone who can produce it long-form content in house. I think an agency is set up for better success.",[14,2173,2174,2176],{},[52,2175,1927],{},": I completely agree because content I feel it's the hardest one. Because you basically, when you have an agency do your content, you almost have to do that to go basically new employee. You have to go through everything with them, like what your brand voices are. And yes, you do that obviously with, like, other types of partnerships with agencies, but the content side is hard because you do have to hold one. You have to think about it too. If you work for an agency, that person is going to be writing for a lot of other industries. And so it's almost like a split personality in a sense, where you kind of have to really zone in on one and while you're writing. I feel if you have an internal, you can elevate your brand better, and you can move quicker. If you have switches or products, if you have really anything, having that solid one copywriter, or even if it's someone who's really good at like writing, like paid ads, kind of you see that in them, mold them into that copywriter content person, because then it can kind of go one-on-one with each other.",[14,2178,2179,2181],{},[52,2180,1948],{},": I'm gonna take the opposite stance in situations. I actually thought about this after our internal things. And I was like, \"Yes, that makes a lot of sense.\" Like, you need to be the brand. But I also thought like, you know, the professionalism, adaptability, and flexibility of a content writer from an agency is sometimes unparalleled. So in certain situations, if it's not too technical, if the brand is something that I can describe, and I don't have to take a lifetime to teach someone, and I could see some sample writings, then I would be okay with testing an agency partner to write my content, just because I know that grammatically it's going to be correct, and as I said, we've got samples. I know the voice has been properly absorbed and portrayed in writing, so I see the benefits of having them in the house. But I also see the benefits of working with an agency.",[14,2183,2184,2186],{},[52,2185,9],{},": I wonder.. Posing a question to y'all. I wonder if an agency makes sense for things that are not super deep technical and a bit more polished and have a high level, almost like product pages. It's probably kind of nice to bring someone in who doesn't speak company and can simplify and make it a bit more human, almost because I find, you know, we get into I worked for a CPG company, and they had an acronym for everything, they had their own language, it was a nightmare. So, you know, bringing in fresh eyes and somebody who can be like, \"I don't think people in the real world are going to really know what you're talking about.\" So it's probably the opportunity there. I'm not saying for everything, but I do think that a fresh perspective could be helpful.",[14,2188,2189,2191],{},[52,2190,1927],{},": Yeah, that's a really good point. I definitely spoke both sides of that coin.",[14,2193,2194,2196],{},[52,2195,9],{},": So yeah! I agree, though, Lisa if you're writing deep, technical, and audible content in-house. What else? Is there anything else that should be in-house, like an email website? Is it really just content, and you can outsource everything else or something else you feel like having in-house is unparalleled?",[14,2198,2199,2201],{},[52,2200,1927],{},": So I feel like product development, obviously, I think should be in-house. When it comes to websites, I'm kind of on the content side of that, too. Because without knowing where I'm at right now, I think it'd be difficult to be with an agency, just based on setting them up for success. It's like my mindset of it, but I've seen other agencies like they're killer design web agencies, and I think that's really for certain types of businesses. And a little thing back on what you were mentioning about having some content be like in-house or agency, I feel like those like fluffy blog posts that are like top five reasons why whatever, those could be definitely an agency, you know, and those could just be like, pumped out quickly. And that can help your SEO, and then you can just be more consistent with your writing and posting, but then you have those product updates, definitely, I think, should be in-house. And I mean, we're lucky enough that one of our developers is a really good writer, and he is a good writer in the sense of a people writer. So instead of writing it in the sense of his, like, very technical brain, he writes in that fun brand side. So I feel like that's an anomaly in the situation. But, it's real and he's been there, like forever, with product knowledge. And I think it's because of just the company in a sense like everybody had to kind of like dive in for a lot of things. But I think agency I mean, to be so hard, because I mean, right now I do everything and so I feel I would love like specific HubSpot developer, you know, to crank out some landing pages, email templates, things like that. And that's where I would definitely go the agency route. One because I love HubSpot. But sometimes, like people who don't know it, or who don't know how to develop it, it's different. It's different than WordPress, you know. It's just the coatings are a little different. So you have to have that specific knowledge and I think that's really for a lot of others like Martech Solutions. You do have to find those, like specific experts at it, and then find the expert at what you're looking for, for specific areas or like, channels.",[14,2203,2204,2206],{},[52,2205,1948],{},": Can I layer on to that?",[14,2208,2209,2211],{},[52,2210,9],{},": Sure!",[14,2213,2214,2216],{},[52,2215,1948],{},": That's a really good point. I'm thinking what needs to be housed versus what needs to be or could be an agency might be just like, Christina was alluding to, like \"Can we do it at the moment?\" or \"Do we need it being done?\" Like, when I want to just walk over and tap someone's shoulder, this is something I need to quickly pivot to. That's an in-house resource. That's what I need and what is the time constraints on it, right? Versus when I'm working with an agency, we can schedule things out. We have a pipeline of projects, we have deadlines, and timelines, and projects, and there's a map that they can follow. I would never expect my agency unless I was like the L'Oreal's of the world, I would never expect them to be available at a moment's notice. You have scheduled calls, and there might be an occasional emergency. But for the most part, I want to respect their boundaries, and they want to respect my internal resources. The boundaries are, you know, when they start their day when they end their day, you know, the scope of that job requirement that they were hired on for, or they're evolving to. So for me, it's going to be my individual organization. What do I need to be available to me at anytime? And what can I schedule out? I don't know. To me, that's what my thoughts are really.",[14,2218,2219,2221],{},[52,2220,1969],{},": It is not really, like, so unique to every organization, and that speaks to, I think, the leadership or, you know, the management and kind of their style of work. But then also, like, at least I'm thinking through my personal experience, like in a more startup world were like, kind of everything's an opportunity, and you're trying things and you're growing fast, like having someone that you can just tap on the shoulder and say, \"Let's do this\" feels really important versus when I've been with like bigger firms, there's not always such like a fastness to how the company operates. And you do have that luxury of planning and scheduling things out. And I think that's a really, really smart point. It's not necessarily about, like, what the function is. It's just also about your style of work and knows to be true about how your company wants to operate on a day-to-day basis. And I'm just like thinking through my past 10 years, and I'm like, \"Yeah, I think you just nailed it.\" Actually, that was totally spot on.",[14,2223,2224,2226],{},[52,2225,9],{},": That was awesome! We're wrapping up here. We got one minute left. In terms of the Great Resignation and looking for agency partners, has that changed your perspective at all? Are you leaning harder on agencies? Are you backing off and trying to hire in-house because it's so tricky? What sort of this last moment for you, given where we are and looking at the partnerships you have?",[14,2228,2229,2231],{},[52,2230,1927],{},": I mean, for us, like I said a little bit ago, right now we're not looking for really either. Maybe it's like a contractor that quickly needs to work with me on some things that I just need off my plate. But I really want to build a super solid foundation to then work with an agency, most probably like a PPC-based agency, because that's what I don't have time for. So that is what I know what type it should be. I want to set a foundation first, but I also want to set kind of give them like a playbook in a sense, like we say playbooks all the time internally, they are so many different things. But I want to give it to the agency, saying I also like kind of almost like this is where we were, so they can see what didn't work for us. And they can maybe see why, and they're like, \"Hey, this is not a...why it didn't work?\" But also, let's do this again because this is what you need to do the type of conversation. So for us, we're really looking at that foundational piece because I've been on offense that it was a lot to work with, like a certain brand, or vice versa, like super hard to work with an agency. So I want to lay that foundation down and give them a map for success. And at that point, I feel it'll probably be the end of this year. But again, years go super quickly. I'm excited for that because I love working with agencies, I'm that person who is excited on calls but also like super direct with what we need. So I'm pretty excited for that journey of us even building that foundation because I feel like it's going to humble us. And it's going to also figure out what we really need to like grow our business.",[14,2233,2234,2236],{},[52,2235,9],{},": Awesome. Hey, any last words as we close out here?",[14,2238,2239,2241],{},[52,2240,1948],{},": I just love this. Kerry, thank you for inviting us like the thought leadership that I hear and the great philosophical ideas and this conversation. The subject was on it. I'm passionate about it, and I'm so glad I was able to join and add my voice to it.",[14,2243,2244,2246],{},[52,2245,9],{},": Thank you all. It was awesome. I hope I certain gave me some ideas. I have a little list over here. Looking forward to tapping into and I hope our listeners were able to do the same thing. And yeah! Listeners, if you want to get in touch with Christina, Ruth or Lisa, their links are in the notes. Be sure to connect with them as you look to learn more about how you can better the relationship with your agencies when to bring them in, and how to make it all successful. It's this puzzle. So big, giant puzzle, and I appreciate you laying out some pieces for us.",[24,2248,1841],{"id":1840},[14,2250,2251],{},"Thank you again for joining us on this Tech Marketing Leader Roundtable. We'll be hosting this once a quarter. Actually, we're going to do it. We're going to do another one later this quarter, and Mike Krass will be hosting it. So stay tuned on that. That's exciting. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss out. Thank you again.",[14,2253,2254],{},"This roundtable was brought to you by MKG Marketing - the digital marketing agency that helps you get found via transparent, measurable digital marketing. It’s hosted by me, Kerry Guard - CEO and co-founder of MKG Music, mix, and mastering done by Austin Ellis.",[14,2256,2257,2258,2262],{},"If you’d like to be a guest, please email me at ",[206,2259,2261],{"href":2260},"mailto:kerry@mkg.marketing","kerry@mkg.marketing"," to apply.",[14,2264,2265],{},"Thank you all again.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":2267},[2268,2269,2270],{"id":1481,"depth":297,"text":1482},{"id":1494,"depth":297,"text":1495},{"id":1840,"depth":291,"text":1841},"2022-02-09T16:30Z","As the Great Resignation continues to take effect, agencies can be a great support. Why, when, and how do you set them up for success and how do they ensure their own success?","https:\u002F\u002Fimages.pexels.com\u002Fphotos\u002F33041\u002Fantelope-canyon-lower-canyon-arizona.jpg?auto=compress&cs=tinysrgb&w=1260&h=750&dpr=1",{},"\u002Fevents\u002Fgreat-resignation",{"title":1899,"description":2272},[2278,2283,2288],{"name":1948,"title":2279,"company":2280,"img":2281,"url":2282},"Manager, Enterprise Customer Success Team","BrightEdge","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Fruth-wisniewski.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fruthwisniewski\u002F",{"name":1927,"title":2284,"company":2285,"img":2286,"url":2287},"Vice President Marketing","ResellerRatings","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Fchristina-kay.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fchristinakay\u002F",{"name":1969,"title":1890,"company":2289,"img":2290,"url":2291},"Acqueon","\u002Fimages\u002Fevents\u002Flisa-mcdermott.webp","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Flisa-mcdermott-marketing-leader\u002F-valler-4b9a4523\u002F","events\u002Fgreat-resignation","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fvideo\u002Fevent\u002Furn:li:ugcPost:6892203168730873856","apAn9bDlyz2BT_mI4yw160yncnAEbvg7XzRtAhGD7kg",{"id":2296,"title":2297,"body":2298,"date":2735,"description":2736,"extension":318,"img":2737,"meta":2738,"minutes":321,"navigation":322,"path":2739,"seo":2740,"speakers":2741,"stem":2761,"updated":7,"watchOnDemand":2762,"__hash__":2763},"events\u002Fevents\u002Fdemand-gen-leap.md","The Demand Generation Leap",{"type":11,"value":2299,"toc":2730},[2300,2302,2305,2307,2312,2315,2321,2326,2332,2337,2343,2349,2355,2360,2365,2370,2375,2380,2385,2390,2395,2400,2405,2410,2415,2420,2425,2430,2435,2440,2445,2450,2453,2458,2463,2466,2471,2476,2481,2486,2491,2496,2501,2506,2509,2514,2517,2522,2527,2532,2537,2542,2545,2548,2553,2558,2563,2568,2573,2578,2583,2588,2593,2598,2603,2608,2613,2618,2623,2628,2633,2636,2641,2646,2651,2656,2661,2666,2671,2676,2681,2686,2691,2696,2701,2706,2711,2716,2718,2721,2724],[81,2301,1482],{"id":1481},[14,2303,2304],{},"Hello, I'm Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing. And welcome to this live roundtable where I'm going to discuss with four, tech marketing leaders, Demand Gen Marketing as it relates to B2B technology. Between working closely with our clients, and doing our podcast, Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders, and just off the cuff conversations I've been having, there seems to be this shift in the universe, away from leads, leads, leads, leads, leads to a more holistic approach, which we'll get into today.",[81,2306,1495],{"id":1494},[14,2308,2309,2311],{},[52,2310,9],{},": Before I launch into it, a little bit of housekeeping because I believe everything is a two way street. So it's our promise to you as our listeners of how we're going to show up today and how we hope that you'll engage with us. So we promise to keep this discussion at hand. It's why we're here to talk about marketing. And we are going to stick to that topic, in the most authentic, honest way possible. It's not about selling, it's not about our companies. It's about demand gen marketing, and how it relates to what these four experts have been doing and how you can learn from them.",[14,2313,2314],{},"For those listening, please engage in the comments. We have our very own AnDrae Jones over there to hang out with y'all. And we look forward to hearing your comments and most importantly, your questions at the end. We're going to leave time to hear from you. And hopefully swing some answers your way and for whatever we don't get to we'll be sure to follow up. So let's get into it. You're ready?",[14,2316,2317,2320],{},[52,2318,2319],{},"Guests",": Yeah. All ready.",[14,2322,2323,2325],{},[52,2324,9],{},": All right. Let's do it. So we're gonna do introductions first. And if you could say your name, your title, and what Demand Gen marketing means to you. And I will start with Amber.",[14,2327,2328,2331],{},[52,2329,2330],{},"Amber Anderson",": Sure. My name is Amber Anderson. I'm the Founder and Head of Strategy at Tote + Pears, which is a woman plus insights and branding agency. Demand Gen to me is about giving your customers a reason to pay attention to you and staying connected with them throughout that process.",[14,2333,2334,2336],{},[52,2335,9],{},": We'll head over to Maurina.",[14,2338,2339,2342],{},[52,2340,2341],{},"Maurina Venturelli",": Yeah, thanks. My name is Maurina Venturelli, I am the VP of Marketing at primer.ai. Demand Gen to me is telling beautiful stories with a specific point of view.",[14,2344,2345,2348],{},[52,2346,2347],{},"Tal Valler",": So, hi. Great to be here, Kerry. My name is Tal Valler, I'm the CMO at Zoovu. We are a conversational AI platform for digital commerce. And demand generation for me is essentially people don't buy products, they buy solutions to their needs. So demand generation is getting people to understand that their needs align with your products and your values and get them to want to talk to you.",[14,2350,2351,2354],{},[52,2352,2353],{},"Adam Holmgren",": Yeah, Adam Holmgren. And I'm the Head of Demand Gen at GetAccept that we are our sales enablement solution. So demand gen for me is mainly I would say a shift of focus. So I'll shift the focus to value first. And of course, revenue first. Yeah.",[14,2356,2357,2359],{},[52,2358,9],{},": Great. To kick off our conversation in the way that you all have defined demand generation and what it means to you. Did anybody find that? You know, agree, disagree? Want to lean into anything that anybody said? Start with you, Maurina, do you have anything to add?",[14,2361,2362,2364],{},[52,2363,2341],{},": Yeah, I like what Amber said about people interested. I think, you know, there's a psychology behind marketing that I think a lot of people forget, right, like, what does it take to get people to be interested in pique their interest and learn more about your company? And it's, I think it's also what, you know, Tal and Adam talked about as well. It is about value and how do you convey that value in a very interesting, maybe provocative way to get folks to to really consume what you want them to consume?",[14,2366,2367,2369],{},[52,2368,2353],{},": Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. And I just wanted to touch upon, you know, the shift. Now we want to give value to our customers. I mean, maybe potential customers. That has really always been the case, but I think we are now more willing to give value without asking anything in return. That has been the case in marketing for many years that we would demand something to give. And I think that is the big shift that is happening now. Which is great. I love, I also want to be able to go into, you know, and read a blog post without giving away my information, right? Or an e book or whatever.",[14,2371,2372,2374],{},[52,2373,2330],{},": Yeah, sure. So what I would say is, I think what's really interesting is when we look at the bigger companies and the bigger brands that have been successful, the Coca Cola, the Nikes, etc, they've been giving away things for free for a really long time, right? They've been selling people on value and community and love. It's the smaller companies that have been really honing in, on trying to take from their customers before they give. And so I think that shift is really not necessarily something that's happened in marketing, it's just something that's happening downstream versus recognizing that, you know, really, the bigger brands have always known that in order to keep a community you needed to give them something that they wanted to hold on to. So that would probably be like my only changes, I think that this is just something that's coming downstream to us a smaller company, and hopefully, it's something that sticks because obviously, it works.",[14,2376,2377,2379],{},[52,2378,2347],{},": Yeah, just going off on what Amber mentioned is, I think, in smaller SaaS companies, because we're so focused on proving our value, because we're so obsessed with trying to create immediate returns on marketing investment. That was about me, me me, like, how can I get the lead? How can I get that leads to give me their contact details? How can I get them? And once we get that contact details, you know, which you can pretty much get anywhere these days, you don't really need to do demand generation just to get the lead and get contact details, then it's all about like sending them, sending them, sending them. And I think the shift in marketing, the shift in demand generation in general has been that it's not about just getting the lead, it's about getting people to talk about you, to talk about their challenges, to talk about these challenges in your prism of thought and with your idea of what the solution could look like or how or what would be the path to a solution. And then when you do that, you're creating demand essentially to your product without even mentioning your product or talking about your platform, right? And it's about continuously giving value. So that value doesn't necessarily have to be gifts or events or blog posts, it can be anything showing - so long that it actually delivers value and it's not just, you know, your musings about your product and about your customer.",[14,2381,2382,2384],{},[52,2383,2353],{},": Yeah, yeah, I really like what Amber said, I agree and I think maybe shift was the wrong word. We are getting more up to speed with what's already happening. But I do think there's a difference between B2B and B2C companies. I think B2C companies have been doing this this radius providing value. And now we, at B2C, are getting there, I think, a bit more. I think many of the baby B2B companies are still not really there to be honest.",[14,2386,2387,2389],{},[52,2388,2341],{},": Yeah, I like what you, I mean, you know, I'm always interested in this topic of B2B and B2C. To me, there's no difference. And I don't know where that mentality started. There is a big difference in how we communicate and go to market. I mean, at the end of the day, we are people selling to people. I'm sure there's nuances but you know, when I started in marketing, there was just this concept of these two things and I was like, why is this different? To me, it is literally the same, right? And I think to your point Adam, we are catching up, we're seeing that. I think what B2B, and kind of what Tal said, with B2B, we're so pressured to provide value and to get that email and track it and ROI that we completely miss that there's a psychology, there is a way to tap into people's feelings and emotions that you and I just - like, its people to people. That's the marketing we're doing.",[14,2391,2392,2394],{},[52,2393,2330],{},": Yeah, I agree. I agree, 100%.",[14,2396,2397,2399],{},[52,2398,2341],{},": When are we gonna disagree? Let's get something we can disagree on.",[14,2401,2402,2404],{},[52,2403,2330],{},": We're just getting warmed up.",[14,2406,2407,2409],{},[52,2408,2347],{},": I think the difference that I see between B2B and B2C a lot of the time is that B2C is marketing to the masses, right? So you try to create a very defined group of people based on some criteria and then create a messaging that would be shallow enough to reach as many of them. Shallow-ish enough as possible, and then get a reaction and get like some share of mine. With B2B today, a lot of companies, like, it's not news, right? It's been around for a while now. But there's more and more focus in account-based marketing and account-based focus, where you can share the message too much too wide with your messaging, crafting it towards specific accounts, towards specific buyers within these accounts, towards the needs of that account. And that becomes a big challenge for, and a big difference. Difference point between B2B and B2C that's hyper focus. We're still working personas, we're still people to people, but we're focused on a group of people versus a group of 10,000.",[14,2411,2412,2414],{},[52,2413,2353],{},": I can just add to that, as well. What I really think we are starting to do great also in B2B now is that we are starting to build really great brands. And that is, we can maybe get into that later as well. But I think that is really key for us building the demand that we need. And I think that is where we have been lacking greatly in the past. Now we can look at these great B2B brands, like Gong, and we look at Drift and all of those that are not only recognizable in the world of business, but in the greater spectrum. And I think that's a really great thing.",[14,2416,2417,2419],{},[52,2418,2330],{},": You know, Maurina had brought up a point before about how do you create really good brands? And so Maurina, I certainly want to have you have an opportunity to dive into that. But I think one of the things that you had said earlier, is that the way that you connect with people is you realize that they are people, whether it's B2B or B2C, the brand is able to identify who it is that we're talking to. And then that's what attracts them. And whether it's 10 people or it's 100 people, or it's 5 million people, it's being able to be so niche and understanding the needs of those individuals that can create messaging around it. So you know, I agree with Maurina, that there's this dialogue about B2B, B2C, and I've never subscribed to that, and our branding agency, we don't subscribe to that either. Because at the end of the day, your goal is to connect with people, they may be at home, they may be at work, the best marketing is where you connect with them in multiple places. And so if we can think about it in a way that we're not pigeonholing them to only connecting in their office, when they're thinking about that, but really trying to connect with them, regardless of where they are in their space, then we can get more sale, right like with the goal was to kind of get in front of them understand their needs, and stay connected with them throughout their journey, not our journey, but their journey. And people have unique journeys all over the place. So, you know, Maurina, I really appreciate you always sharing your thoughts there. And wanting to make sure I could chime in on the branding side of why the brand I think can kind of die, at least from the way that we handle things. That conversation.",[14,2421,2422,2424],{},[52,2423,2341],{},": Yeah, you mentioned connection. That is the number one thing, right, whether you connect with them through something, you know, fun and interesting that is semi relevant to your product. For instance, at primer, we do natural language processing, which can be very intimidating. We did this blog post about Harry Potter and how we use our technology to pull out interesting, you know, how many times did Harry Potter in this episode, or in this book, you know, use this name, things like that. And you can use those to connect and then obviously drive value and product specific types of things. I mean, I think, you know, and Tal mentioned this, right, we're all on the hook for revenue, right? In all of my jobs of demand gen, it was, you pay $1 here, what are we giving back to the company? So I would love to hear people's perspective on how you take that sort of feeling of connection, right? You send something interesting, but then actually drive value and provide, you know, actual ROI because they're kind of disjointed. You think of connection as the brand or something else where it really is all encompassing with demand gen. I don't know if that question was articulated well, but if somebody can understand it.",[14,2426,2427,2429],{},[52,2428,2347],{},": It's a topic that I actually love talking about, right, because not everything in marketing is measurable. Yes, we are on the hook to measure. And we know as marketers that a lot of the activities that are the top value creators are not measurable, right? Like a brand, a new brand is not measurable, you can attribute it to revenue or stuff like that trade show that costs you a lot to have, like a huge within the speaking slot. But no, not necessarily a lot of opportunities came out from the closure in 12 months, but everybody saw you and everybody will see you in the next show and knows that you're there. So a lot of things are not measurable. I think the trick that's worked for me is trying to balance out paying the piper and trying to balance out some activities that, you know you can check, you know you can measure. I always tried to bring the SDR team or EDR team under marketing as part of my information marketing so that I can have some channels or some activities that immediately show measurable value. PPC, I always have the argument with my superiors when budgeting about the fact that it's a worthwhile activity, even if it's not necessarily worthwhile, you're at least taking demand, you're picking existing demand that immediately translates into the mind. So a lot of these, there are these types of marketing activities that deliver value and need a kind of budget, a big chunk of your money and time towards these activities. So you can get the additional time and budget to do stuff that isn't measurable, or isn't measurable, at least in the short term for revenue. And even there, you know, there are ways to measure it in the long run. So you measure, to me, you reach, you know, engagement and looking for the target audience with your posts or with your brand activities or whatnot. And then hopefully you can show later down the line that you've gotten more organic demo requests, more people say that they've seen in places right when they're having sales conversations. And when you can say yes, that you've done something good.",[14,2431,2432,2434],{},[52,2433,2353],{},": Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. And I totally agree, I think we are coming from lead gen, where we are obsessed with being data driven. And we are now allowing ourselves to be born more by gut feel sometimes. And I think for me, to really have, I need the executive team in the company I work for to have that trust in me. I think the times I have failed, not being able to really grow the demand or whatever it is when the executive and I haven't been in the same place. So I think that's a huge thing. And the reason why I am where I am today, I would say we are probably putting 50% of our spend on activities that are not really measurable. And you need to have that trust, I guess, is my point.",[14,2436,2437,2439],{},[52,2438,9],{},": That's a really good point. Because when we talk about value and measurement, you know, and we talk about lead gen, right? Lead Gen sort of always been the thing that we've done in B2B. And now it's shifting, so in that shift of demand gen, where does lead gen come in? Or does it not anymore? I mean, you're talking about giving value? Are you asking for anything in return?",[14,2441,2442,2444],{},[52,2443,2330],{},": I mean, I'm happy to give some insights if you'd like. And I think what's really important is I don't think it goes away, I think we're still trying to get information and trying to service the client. So we need to be able to capture information from the lead. I think it just moves down the funnel a bit where we're not doing that as the first interaction but actually being polite. Okay, like, \"hello, how are you?\" before I take your email address. But I am gonna eventually get your email address so that I can service you better, right? It's just all in the language and the way that we approach people, not as if we're not doing it in person, we're just doing it in a different way. So yeah, I don't think it goes away. I think it just moves down.",[14,2446,2447,2449],{},[52,2448,2347],{},": I think two things. One is, I don't think anybody cares about leads anymore, like salespeople will care about where my leads are, your CEO will care about having a lead flow. But eventually, like, I see the company I'm in now and both of my previous companies, they care about leads so long as none are coming in. But assuming that they're coming in, they start caring and nagging you much more about opportunities and qualified opportunities and further down the funnel than the leads. Right? So maybe the conversation is shifted into defining leads as opportunities or sales qualified opportunities, versus just leads, which makes our life more difficult at least though more interesting as well.",[14,2451,2452],{},"And the second thing I wanted to say is because we're so geared toward leads, it was generating email addresses, it starts all sorts of stupid and bad marketing behavior that we kind of all need to do to cleanse ourselves, right? Gating, not quality assets that basically just annoy people because they've given you their email thinking that they're going to get something and they get your muses and ideas about why your product is great or not something that they can actually do something with, or gating good mixing this whole sort of company that we're working now. Something I'm currently trying to shift away from. Gating case studies, gaiting like the process of people validating that your product is good, just so you can say as a marketer, you're, I brought this lead? Versus here, I brought this piece of business or supported bringing this piece of business?",[14,2454,2455,2457],{},[52,2456,2353],{},": Yeah, yeah, I wanted to touch upon what Maurina actually also touched upon, which is a little bit around the definition of a lead. And in terms of your, at what stage your company or I talked to, I don't remember who it was at HubSpot a few weeks ago. And they were talking about instead, okay, they would never reach out to a prospect that did not request a demo, for example, and HubSpot are generating 1000s of leads a month, you know, they have that it's easier for them, I believe it's easier for larger company to go full out demand gen. And only reach out for the high intent one, I think it's easier when you are a startup or scale up. When you have the pressure from the sales team and from the CEO. It's easy to land in what Tal talked about, you know, just getting leads in, it doesn't matter. And that's where we, as marketers, of course have to stay strong. And so I think the most important thing here is actually how we, at the company, define what is the lead? What is an MQL? How do we define that? Or do we even use that?",[14,2459,2460,2462],{},[52,2461,2341],{},": I think that's, I mean, it's so interesting, right? In the marketing industry as a whole, there is no set definition of what those things are. Even, you know, even as you talked about the word lead, Tal, right? To me, a lead is any email in the database, right? Like the qualifiers on top of it, and engagement and all of those different metrics. So I think, I don't know that anybody can set forth a real definition. I mean, maybe. You know, at Primer, the SDRs do roll up under marketing, which I think is, I don't know, to your point, Tal, it is the one it is a touch point of here is actual like, human to human contact, they're getting meetings, they're talking to these people, as opposed to this ambiguous, say, they clicked the link in an email. And I think that flow is really important. So I think that the comment, you know, what we look at is three milestones, right? An MQL, sales qualified lead, which is when a meeting is set, sales qualified opportunity. So SDRs, at Primer, there's a stage zero, where they are in charge of getting information around why them, why now, and why Primer. So we do go after, learn about the person first, before we even, you know, talk about Primer, and there's a set of questions like, you know, what are you measured on? It's really all about them. And I'm very particular about SDRs. You don't mention our technology, until you have these things answered. And then there's a space between that meeting set to when we pass a qualified opportunity on to the salespeople, and we record it in Salesforce, and so on.",[14,2464,2465],{},"So that's kind of the practical part. There's this other part that I'm hearing around demand gen where we're kind of going back to superiors trust us, we need to build connection first. We're not going to get their unborn baby's child's name at the first, you know, the first get go, we need to build trust, we need to build connection, we need to be smart about the things that we gate. And maybe we're going and we are going to give stuff away for free. And it is a lagging effect, right? Because on the other end, we have sales saying I don't have enough opportunities. So it is a balancing act of, and I think Tal mentioned this, what are the things that are going to produce opportunities kind of quickly? And then how do we pull people along, because it is a challenge. I can't go to my CMO and say, you know, give me four months while I build connections with people. So you know, we're in this kind of interesting space of, we want to be more empathetic and we want to be more human and we need to produce revenue.",[14,2467,2468,2470],{},[52,2469,2330],{},": Do we really gate things anymore?",[14,2472,2473,2475],{},[52,2474,2353],{},": Yeah, the only thing we gate now is our premium and our demo requests. We have un-gated everything else. Since we, I really believe that people will come back to us if they find value from from things. I probably can prove that that is what's happening. But I really, it feels good in my stomach when we do that so we will continue doing that. And I think it was interesting. You mentioned your KPIs that you use and I just wanted to add something that we also measure which is, which is pipeline created, which I think it's actually a great measurement to use to get also the sales organization to have a good understanding. I think it's hard sometimes for them to really understand MQL to SQL there. And that's maybe the biggest issue of it. Nothing pipeline is something that can sometimes get past that a bit. But yeah, it would be fun to hear everyone at once else talk for un-gating. As I feel very strongly about that.",[14,2477,2478,2480],{},[52,2479,2341],{},": Well, we asked for social security numbers. So -",[14,2482,2483,2485],{},[52,2484,2353],{},": Yeah, take a picture of your license.",[14,2487,2488,2490],{},[52,2489,2347],{},": I love to say that we're not gating anything, and I'm slowly trying to move things away from gating, especially assets that I don't think are premium. So unless we're selling, we're sharing the secrets of doing X, then I don't see or like a Gartner report that costs us a ton of money to syndicate in this very coveted I don't think there's a lot of value in gating. In an ideal situation, I do. And what I've done for gating is use gating as an intent qualification, right? So I would take a nice blog post that we have or a nice webinar or session that we have. And then on the side of it, or somewhere down like 1\u002F3 of the way down would have a pop up or a call to action for a gated acid supplement or gifts. The deeper information about the topic of the subject, in that way, basically, it shows me this person is really interested versus just like, found this on Google.",[14,2492,2493,2495],{},[52,2494,9],{},": Amber, do you have any thoughts around getting content? And what content do you gate versus not?",[14,2497,2498,2500],{},[52,2499,2330],{},": Yeah. So I mean, I'm in an agency. So we work with several clients. I think the answer is case by case. As you all have said, there's different things for different businesses that have different content. So I think it just depends on what the content is, and what it is that the customer needs, and what's the right appropriate measure and what you handed out to them. So I don't have a blanket statement on what to do, because I do think it's a case by case basis.",[14,2502,2503,2505],{},[52,2504,9],{},": Also, in terms of case by case basis, I think you all have different approaches to how you've built your teams as well. And I think this is a really important topic, as you know, companies start to move away from lead gen, and move into demand gen, and start thinking about who they need on their team to actually execute this because it's so different, and more holistic.",[14,2507,2508],{},"So Maurina, let's kick off with you. How is your team structured and who are your players so to speak?",[14,2510,2511,2513],{},[52,2512,2341],{},": Yeah, that's a great question. So I, SDRs. So I have global SDRs and then an SDR lead there, which we're building out as well. I am marketing operations sort of typical. So everything systems are really closely aligned with sales operations. As we look at, you know, global reporting and tracking and all of those things in our marketing automation and CRM systems. Have a content strategist, which is something when I moved into primary I was very, very, very passionate about content. And I actually don't look at it as content I look at it as offers, what are we giving to, what are we offering to people, right? Is it a PDF? Is it a blog? I like people to think outside of this, like, let's give them a two pager like, are we going to give them a live event? Are we going to give them an experience on a website? Are we going to give them, you know, are they going to fill something in, and we're going to give them an asset. So we have this sort of offer\u002Fcontent strategy team that falls under me, and they're kind of a dotted mind to sort of thought leadership, Product Marketing and demand gen, because I do think those different categories of content are different. And at my last job, I often said to my CMO, you know, there's this Venn diagram, like product marketing isn't necessarily always demand and marketing. You know, it actually, to me, at least at this stage, Primer is, it's more thought leadership. People are interested in where you are in the industry, they're interested about learning, you know, about things. Our CEO, he spoke at a TED talk, and he has a super interesting just, you know, kind of where this natural language process is going. And they just, they want to know that. And to me, that creates interest, thus, will create demand later. And so we have these, that whole content strategy, and what are we going to offer? And what are we going to give our audiences kind of under Demand Gen.",[14,2515,2516],{},"So summarizing, SDRs, marketing ops, content\u002Foffers, and then we do have kind of an execution arm campaigns person that brings it all together and says, Okay, where are we going to put all of this information? How are we going to track it? What are we going to gate? What are we not going to gate? You know, and then kind of the website falls into that.",[14,2518,2519,2521],{},[52,2520,2353],{},": Yeah, I think our team is actually predefined that we have been scaling so fast so it's changing all the time. In two years now we have gone from three people in marketing to almost 30. Now, so it's, we are still setting the structure so to speak. But yeah, so I'm leading the demand gen team. So I thought I could dig into a little bit what that actually entails in our team. But then similar to Maurina, we have a content team, we have a brand team, and we actually have our product marketing as its own team, as I agree with you completely, that it's very much more of a team that is between everyone to be honest, and maybe the most important role, to be honest. Yeah, and the demand, and we also have marketing ops, of course. And the demand team, I would say, we have structured it very much based on both competence, but also region. So we have different regional demand managers, that the plants in the entire region and the demand efforts in that region. But then we have certain experts in different fields, like Field Marketing, paid social, paid search, and so on. We are doing a little bit of everything, I think. And it's also the case, we have a brand team, for example, and the content team. But I would say that that ties very much into what we do in demand gen. So everything is together, of course.",[14,2523,2524,2526],{},[52,2525,9],{},": Tal, how is your team structured?",[14,2528,2529,2531],{},[52,2530,2347],{},": So first thing I joined Zoovu for less than three months ago, and I'm building the marketing team right now. So if anybody has good ideas, and recommend people for recruiting and hiring for almost all marketing roles, and it's a crazy market, so it's really, really difficult to find good people. And by the time I get to interview them, they've already gotten a job somewhere else. But my walls aside, the way that ideal teams will be structured, and the way you were kind of more or less structured now is, I have a content communications lead, who was in charge of coming up with great stories that we can later on, create PRs around and create activities around that will support demand generation. Then there's a design team, design person right now. Not so much team, will support common communications, the website, presentations, or gated content, assets and everything else. We have regional demand generation managers, so they are in charge of executing campaigns and programs for each one of the regions and translating and localizing them, the general ones into each region. And focus basically are creating pipeline for their region for their community CMOs or for the area that they work in. And then we have product marketing, which is a completely different beast right? Focused on creating collateral, Little bit of analyst relations, even though that doesn't necessarily always sit under the remit of product market being working on pricing and collateral development, it will support the sales team case studies. Also important, I think, Maurina, we had that argument, when we had the prep call, these are all dedicated people in the organization. But they're all working together, right. So the content and communication doesn't create content that will just sit there either for the sake of content communications, and they will align with me with the demand generation team to make sure that the content is part of a campaign that is used and is ideated, working with the sales team and with the other teams in the organization. Same for product marketing, right? They don't live in a silo, they need to work with the product team, with the sales team, and with content in order to generate collateral. And all of that feeds, again, demand generation.",[14,2533,2534,2536],{},[52,2535,9],{},": And how does, and I think this is where Amber can really pipe in because I love what you're saying, Tal, about all these people talking together. And it sounds like a brand, would be a really great thing to sort of hold all that together. Amber, what are your thoughts in terms of how the brand fits into the team structure and the importance of it?",[14,2538,2539,2541],{},[52,2540,2330],{},": Sure. I think I would probably say, we are Demand Gen. That's what we do as a branding agency. We're full service at Tote and Pear. So the way that we're structured is, we work in pods, so everybody has their expertise. But we come together to service on account. And what value that brings is that I think it gives you the opportunity to make sure that the brand is being addressed in every aspect of the touchpoint that you have with your customer. So whether that's stepping in and having the brand strategist identify the market, what are the things about the audience that's going on? What do we need to do to make sure that we're standing out, that's their role. Then we have content, which is saying what value do we provide? How do we provide it, creating the actual content that goes to meet that need. Then you have the creative, for us, which is how do we do that visually? How do we make sure that we continue to have a visual saying sometimes content isn't words, sometimes content is a video or it's a photograph or it's your visuals that go along with it. So working hand in hand with the strategist and the content strategist, to be able to create that. And then on the marketing side, it's where we place it once we're there, and you have a variety of different people that are going to step in to be able to make sure that we're placing it in the right place at the right time when we need to be placing it.",[14,2543,2544],{},"So for us, it's about having different people so that they have a leader that can help them with their discipline. But when we execute, we execute as a pod, we execute as a collective group that sees the entire brand, just from their viewpoint. But we know that holistically, we've met every need that we needed to make sure that the brand was seen and continues to be seen as it's supposed to be based off of the strategy.",[14,2546,2547],{},"So that's the way that we operate. And I think that's where we were kind of getting into the back and forth about how you actually execute on that, especially in a complicated organization. And my combat was, I actually come from technology. So my background was building products. And we were able to do it in a technology capacity, most teams are operating in some type of an Agile, Scrum or a team capacity, where they're building huge complex systems with multiple disciplines of people. And I think in the marketing side is something that we need to be able to do as well because the reality is, it is all coming together. And being able to do that where you have people working side by side helps just ensure that you're getting the output that you're looking for. So that was the viewpoint that I had and the contribution I had to the conversation.",[14,2549,2550,2552],{},[52,2551,2341],{},": Yeah, I love the idea of a pod. And my sort of idea of executing with marketing, it has that same pot idea where you have kind of a marketing leader, you know, a writer, product marketing person, you know, and analytics kind of goes throughout, but it's funnel based. So when you have like, depending on your definitions, right, if you have a sales, sort of, they're in a sales opportunity and they're in inactive sales sort of cycle, you have a team of people that address those needs, then you have a team of people that is kind of in that mid funnel, right, addressing SDRs, how are you helping SDRs get the qualification. This is kind of more Primer specific, but you have it, you know, you have an execution arm, you know, you have ads and emails and live events that are just for that part of the funnel. And then obviously the top because it helps in I think content creation, you have kind of all the necessary things, you have the leader, the writer, the builder, that person that executes and then marketing kind of ops and reporting kind of does it for all those different pods.",[14,2554,2555,2557],{},[52,2556,2330],{},": So if I could ask the follow up question, Maurina, how do you make sure you have that consistency through the funnel? So do you, for example, in technology, we have a product manager, right that says I own the product. At the end of the day, regardless of where the product is, it comes together. And for us, we always have our brand strategist, is that person that owns that relationship. I think in companies, that's the piece that needs to be connected, even if they're in this part of the funnel, who makes sure that they get to the end, who owns that whole thing?",[14,2559,2560,2562],{},[52,2561,2341],{},": So we have a head, like a Senior Director of Content Strategy that sits under me and it all rolls through her to make sure it is consistent, because you're right, you get people to try with brand guidelines. But you know, you do need that person who has the last eyeballs to make sure everything's, and she's aligned with product marketing, she's aligned with Thought Leadership, our CEO just on how we talk about the company. And that's how we do it. It kind of rolls up.",[14,2564,2565,2567],{},[52,2566,9],{},": Tal mentioned the struggle for hiring. I think we can all lean into that real hard right now. I have a few questions about that. One is, and I think this is where we're gonna wrap our conversation and head over to the comments in a second. But one question is, when you're scaling, like Tal is, who's the first hire? I mean, who should Tal hire first? What's important there?",[14,2569,2570,2572],{},[52,2571,2347],{},": I know, I'm trying to hire -",[14,2574,2575,2577],{},[52,2576,2353],{},": Anyone at this point.",[14,2579,2580,2582],{},[52,2581,2347],{},": I've got a lot. Yeah, if you're going into Zoovu's website career section, you'll see, and everybody listening, by the way, I encourage you to do so. You'll see that there's a lot of open roles, some of which I haven't gotten to post yet, because otherwise, I won't be able to sleep from interviewing and posting roles all the time. But the first hire, we actually already have somebody in this position, but I need to strengthen the team around that, because we're going into a lot of different markets, is for me, content, right? Content is the fuel for demand generation. Even if your work, even if demand generation to you is only SDRs and BDR doing outreach, you still need content, because otherwise all they're doing is telling people come to my meeting, come to my meeting. And you want to deliver value, and you want to tell stories, and you want to get an audience. Having somebody that knows how to do this, knows how to do research, knows how to listen to the market, and find out what people in our buyer persona and in our ICP are looking for, or looking at, or reading interested that and, and spinning the story so that we deliver a value and our own perspective on it. It's the first thing that you need to do. Followed by the marketing ops, to distribute that stuff.",[14,2584,2585,2587],{},[52,2586,2341],{},": That's so funny, Tal, that's what I was thinking. And I think it depends on the leader's strength. But I would, it's a toss up for me between content and marketing ops. I think marketing ops goes, it might be becoming more valuable now. But for a while it was totally under the radar. And what was happening is the startups were like, holy crap, we're a year and a half in and we don't have any tracking and then they try to kind of retroactively build some tracking system. So it's a 50\u002F50 for me, marketing ops and content.",[14,2589,2590,2592],{},[52,2591,2347],{},": Maybe it's easy for me because like, I have some of my chops in marketing operations as well.",[14,2594,2595,2597],{},[52,2596,2341],{},": I just didn't want to do it anymore. Unlike -",[14,2599,2600,2602],{},[52,2601,2353],{},": But I think it's pretty spot on about what you said Maurina, I think it so much depends on what your own strength is. Since we're all kind of obsessed demand generators, maybe that wouldn't be the first hire, right?",[14,2604,2605,2607],{},[52,2606,9],{},": Last question for y'all in terms of hiring, what are some tips and tricks you're using right now to find talent other than roundtables?",[14,2609,2610,2612],{},[52,2611,2347],{},": I'm all ears.",[14,2614,2615,2617],{},[52,2616,2330],{},": Well, I mean, I can chime in here. I think one of the things that goes back to what we talked about with the brand leading earlier, that people are people and you want to get people to work for you, and you need to give them some value as to why I would come to work for you. So this is the reason why being able to focus on your brand, do demand gen thinking not just in terms of having a customer come on board, but the brand is also being witnessed by potential employers. This is a key thing, I think in B2B, why it's so important for us to focus on this area. So we're now, to give you some numbers because this is an area we've been spending a lot of time, I think in September, we had in the United States, 10 million open jobs, and 3 million plus people quit their jobs voluntarily because they don't want a workplace that they don't feel like they're having values. So you have to think about the work you're doing in terms of what am I giving to my employees or potential employees? What is the culture like here? Is it something that people are going to work on? And that's a connection that you do, just like you do with your customers, you do the same thing for your employees. So I would argue, hands down, the brand is valuable in all touch points in the business. And probably with some, you know, nudging on the brand side, you'll start to see an increase in people finding you, right, which is what we want.",[14,2619,2620,2622],{},[52,2621,2353],{},": Yeah, I love that, and I can add to that. I completely agree with you. And as you said, before, that people buy from people, I also think that people, you know, they get hired by people. But I think what has really worked well for me is to build my own personal brand. And that has made a lot of people, you know, connect to work. Yeah, work with me more as a person instead of the company. And that is also, I guess, a weigh in, because I represent my company every day, right, so I think that is also important. We people hire people as well. And I think that's at least one of my main things, when I enter a new company, is to feel that trust with my manager. It doesn't matter what company it is if I don't feel that. I think that's the key, 100%.",[14,2624,2625,2627],{},[52,2626,2341],{},": We give away free pups. Not true, not true. But I felt he needed to make an appearance. This is not a, it's not a live event without a puppy or a baby or a cat.",[14,2629,2630,2632],{},[52,2631,9],{},": When we're all working from home these days, that is so true. Andre, what questions do we have?",[14,2634,2635],{},"Okay, so we got, if you're ungating everything, how do you measure success?",[14,2637,2638,2640],{},[52,2639,2341],{},": I'll quickly, I'm certainly not suggesting ungating everything. I would say if it was a pie chart, I would gate maybe 10%. And I think what Adam is doing in terms of a free, freemium trial, you know, demo requests, contact us, basically those. But yeah, if I had a, it's probably 10% or less, is what I would gate.",[14,2642,2643,2645],{},[52,2644,2353],{},": Yeah, I think we're back here with measuring success. I think it's still the key to have that trust with the executives, even if you have a low mum, that the revenue will come if you're doing the right things. So yeah, I think you shouldn't have to prove each month that you are, yeah, that you're doing it.",[14,2647,2648,2650],{},[52,2649,2347],{},": So first, like, I don't ungate everything, but I do gate occasionally. I'm trying to wean myself off of gating. But how do you measure success? So two things that have always worked for me. One is to have a little field in your forums that asks, How did you find us? In your demo request forms, ask How did you find us and train your SDRs to ask people how they define us. And it's qualitative, not quantitative information, you can make it quantitative if you were getting like a ton of them or request but it basically puts marketing in a good light and tells you which assets work. And second is, when you're ungating everything and you are creating good content, then, in the short run, you should see and be able to measure a higher engagement with your content, with your website. And in the long run, compared to a baseline, you want to be able to show an increase in requests.",[14,2652,2653,2655],{},[52,2654,2353],{},": Yeah, I can add to that. It was funny that he said that about that field, because we just added that as well. We have a great collaboration with our SDR team, they are giving us, you know, putting on feedback on our inbound, what's great and what's not. And then we are of course digging into that. Okay, what can we double down on right now? And then when we look at that data, of course, everything is direct traffic, everything great. So I think your point is absolutely valid. And I think that's also where we are going, finding more qualitative data. And I guess the question to you then is, have you found success with that? How do you, you know, have you found any trends that you didn't have before?",[14,2657,2658,2660],{},[52,2659,2347],{},": So it's funny, like, again, this is from my last company, but in my last company, the SDRs would usually put on everything outbound first, and you would contrast that with what the person said, which is, I saw you in this show, I read your blog post, I went to this webinar. And would often make for some nice conversations, funny conversations. So not so funny depending on which side you're on. But yeah, so another thing, by the way, is we're going into Account Based Marketing, you'll notice that it becomes really, really difficult to chase one source of an opportunity. You have 10 people in one opportunity, and maybe 100 people in an organization that are involved in multiple opportunities within your company. It becomes super difficult to attribute revenue to one conversion.",[14,2662,2663,2665],{},[52,2664,2341],{},": Yeah, I was just gonna say we could let we need to do another talk on just like this concept of inbound versus outbound and the friction it creates, and can we just get on a number and just everybody work together toward one number, regardless? Where it comes from, because that's a huge pet peeve of mine.",[14,2667,2668,2670],{},[52,2669,2353],{},": But do you think, on that Maurina, do you think that what creates that friction is the bonus goals that SDRs usually have on there? You know, creating things from outbound? Or what do you think is creating friction?",[14,2672,2673,2675],{},[52,2674,2341],{},": I mean, we only have nine minutes for a great conversation, because I have a lot of opinions on what creates that friction.",[14,2677,2678,2680],{},[52,2679,2347],{},": I can tell you something, my CEO told me recently that, you know, the sales team is on my shit list all the time, because I can tell them, this is your goal, you didn't hit it, if I don't say this to you as well, then they're not going to think very highly of you. So we kind of still need to prove that some things came from us. It's just like Maurina said, finding a number that we agree on that this is our goal, and then doing everything in our power to actually create the pipeline that hits that number. But aligning expectations, it can't be like everything is marketing. So 80% is more inbound or whatever.",[14,2682,2683,2685],{},[52,2684,9],{},": Well, we have a great follow up. Have to get on the books. We have another question here about, how can you be in mind leverage from folks who may be using a competing solution?",[14,2687,2688,2690],{},[52,2689,2330],{},": So what I would say, I think that's very brand specific how your brand shows up and in the market is important. Maybe the answer is if you have a brand that is combative, then you do do something that's very combative. If you have a brand, that's more you know, I take the high road, then the way you would address it would be different. I think that's something to really think about, it's always great when you're able to provide thought leadership and show up in a space where you understand the needs of your customers, and can talk about that and show the value of your audience, the value of your product, but I think how you actually do it, do you call it weaknesses is very brand friend specific.",[14,2692,2693,2695],{},[52,2694,2341],{},": Yeah, I think, two things. I think if you can, it's hard to do. And even with SDRs, it's hard to do, if you can show that you're interested in them, right, as many companies, we try to have clear differentiation and our product does this, I think if you take the time to get to know them, they'll appreciate that. And then you can kind of sell them. Then there's, I might be saying two competing things, then there's the, let's poke the bear. I was trying to think on 101 North, as you head into San Francisco, there was a billboard and I apologize if anybody works for Snowflake, but there was a billboard from a competing company. And it said something like, \"no flake\", or something like that. And it was, I mean, I like to be provocative. So I would say as far as you can go, you know, poke the bear and have some fun with it. But then also be kind and human to the people you're talking to.",[14,2697,2698,2700],{},[52,2699,2330],{},": Yeah, like I said, I think the only thing is just being mindful of the brand. Because if you do it on one end, and it's not aligned with the way you're doing other things, it can feel conflicting.",[14,2702,2703,2705],{},[52,2704,2347],{},": Again, assuming that I understood the question correctly, I think at least in my space, or at least in my experience, I've never been, because I've been working with startups, most of my career and in SaaS most of my career. I've never been in a company where the product is super commoditized and kind of every company I've worked with, we have competitors, but competitors are doing their own, have their own view of what's right and what makes them special. So focusing less on how you compared to a competitor and more about why you can make sense to begin with, and what makes you better than anything out there. And then not doing anything is usually like, the big competitor, right, for startup companies.",[14,2707,2708,2710],{},[52,2709,9],{},": We have a minute here. And that's it for questions. So I just want to ask one last question. And I'm looking through here to figure out which one's the best one to land on. But, yeah, let's start this. And so I think companies are trying to struggle with this to figure out, what, do I do this thing? Should I always do Demand Gen? Should I start with lead gen and then do demand gen? I mean, I feel like I know, based off of our conversation, but just to end here, you know, should everybody be doing demand gen. And I will start with Adam. What are your thoughts?",[14,2712,2713,2715],{},[52,2714,2353],{},": Yeah, of course. Yeah, I think so. I think as I said in the beginning, the few times I have failed is when I have started with lead gen based on that the company didn't want to do anything else, and tried to shift to demand gen but the mindset wasn't there to make that shift. So I think it would be much easier to start with the right focus, the right mindset, the value giving we have been talking about getting to know the people, and I think that is what you lose a bit if you start with a lead gen. Yeah, and I think it's hard to go back to be honest if that's what you are measured heavily upon. I have never succeeded at least.",[24,2717,1841],{"id":1840},[14,2719,2720],{},"Thank you all so much. I appreciate each and every one of you for joining me and for your time. This has been awesome. If anybody has any further questions or wants to connect with Amber, Maurina, Adam, and Tal, their links are below. Check them out, connect, follow up. They're amazing, amazing humans. It's an honor to know each of you. Thank you for joining me.",[14,2722,2723],{},"And thank you for joining us on this Tech Marketing Leader Roundtable. I'm looking to do these quarterly so be sure to subscribe and join our next one. And thank you listeners for commenting and joining in on the conversation that was great to have you and I look forward to seeing you next time.",[14,2725,2726,2727,2729],{},"This roundtable is brought to you by MKG Marketing, our digital marketing agency of Agile experts who specialize in SEO, digital advertising, and analytics. It's hosted by me, Kerry Guard, CEO of MKG Marketing, and the music mix and mastering from the video at front was done by Austin Ellis, our producer. And if you'd like to be a guest and join our roundtable, please email me at ",[206,2728,2261],{"href":2260}," to apply. Thank you all so much.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":2731},[2732,2733,2734],{"id":1481,"depth":297,"text":1482},{"id":1494,"depth":297,"text":1495},{"id":1840,"depth":291,"text":1841},"2021-11-04T16:00Z","Join these tech marketing leaders, as we discuss the importance of Demand Generation. 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Moman Rawden",{"type":11,"value":3345,"toc":3375},[3346,3351,3354,3357,3360,3364],[14,3347,3350],{"className":3348},[3349],"text-lg","Alanna graduated from the University of Alabama in 2004. She started her career at an advertising agency in Birmingham, AL, and has spent most of her career in Account Leadership roles working on consumer brands like Verizon Wireless, Books-A-Million, Toys ‘R’ Us, and Hard Rock Hotel & Casinos. In 2015, she left the agency world with a desire to gain more digital advertising experience, which led to her running a one-person digital department for a regional credit union.",[14,3352,3353],{},"Account Direction has always been a natural fit for Alanna because she enjoys managing projects, big picture strategy, and building relationships. She chose to come back to the agency world when she learned about MKG and our People First values.",[14,3355,3356],{},"She is most proud of the impact she had on her previous company by creating a positive and supportive environment for those she managed. ",[14,3358,3359],{},"Alanna enjoys spending time with her husband and two teenage daughters, has a very eclectic taste in music, and is an obsessive Hamilfan.",[81,3361,3363],{"id":3362},"fun-facts","Fun facts",[46,3365,3366,3369,3372],{},[49,3367,3368],{},"In college, she won a radio contest for her youngest brother to have dinner with Nickelback. The band spent the entire evening trying to convince her, then 15-year-old, brother to drop out of school.",[49,3370,3371],{},"She once spent 3 hours convincing a famous country singer to get off his tour bus to shoot a commercial that her client had contracted him to be in.",[49,3373,3374],{},"Her family is a big fan of True Crime, and they binge Crime Junkie on every road trip.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3376},[3377],{"id":3362,"depth":297,"text":3363},"Meet Alanna Moman-Rawden, one of MKG Marketing’s amazing Account Directors, bringing 15+ years of account leadership and direction to the table.",{"landscape":3380},"alanna-moman-rawden.webp","Director, People & Culture","alanna-moman-rawden",{},"Alanna Moman-Rawden","\u002Fteam\u002Falanna-moman-rawden","I am the one thing in life I can control. I am inimitable. 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I quickly discovered a passion for the field, and with Google Ads sales training followed by SEM training, I was hooked.",[14,3406,3407],{},[52,3408,3409],{},"What I Love About Paid Search",[14,3411,3412],{},"Every campaign is like a unique puzzle, even within the same industry. Variations in geography, audiences, and keywords make each project different. I enjoy leveraging the full suite of Google products—Search, Display, Demand Gen, and YouTube—because they work best when integrated. The ever-evolving nature of the work keeps me inspired and challenged.",[14,3414,3415],{},[52,3416,3417],{},"Why I Chose MKG Marketing",[14,3419,3420],{},"I was drawn to MKG Marketing for its people-first culture. The company recognizes that we are all human, with lives outside of work, and fosters a supportive environment that values balance and well-being.",[14,3422,3423],{},[52,3424,3425],{},"Fun Facts About Me",[14,3427,3428],{},"I’m an avid traveler and love immersing myself in different cultures. Before having kids, my husband and I spent at least three months each year exploring the world.",[14,3430,3431],{},"I take cooking classes with locals wherever I go and love scuba diving whenever there’s water nearby.\nMy kids are my world—seeing their faces light up when experiencing something new brings me the greatest joy.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3433},[],"Meet Alicia Antonow, one of MKG Marketing’s saavy digital ads experts, bringing 15+ years of hands on execution and strategy to the table.",{"landscape":3436},"alicia-antonow.webp",false,"Digital Advertising Experts","alicia-a-36459bb5",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Falicia-antonow","alicia-antonow",{"description":3434},54,"team\u002Falicia-antonow","dX6MgSjdInEGV2mLfl0Uv4cjJ2Si5idzNXLe33_xMZY",{"id":3448,"title":3449,"body":3450,"date":7,"description":3481,"extension":318,"images":3482,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3484,"linkedIn":3485,"meta":3486,"name":3449,"navigation":322,"path":3487,"quote":7,"quoteCite":7,"ref":3488,"seo":3489,"sequence":3490,"stem":3491,"team":3492,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3493},"team\u002Fteam\u002Favery-davis.md","Avery Davis",{"type":11,"value":3451,"toc":3478},[3452,3456,3459,3462,3465,3467],[14,3453,3455],{"className":3454},[3349],"\nAvery began his digital marketing career at a tech startup focused on ID scanning and facial recognition software. In addition to gaining a deep understanding of paid media and analytics, this peaked his interest in cybersecurity and tech in general. He then transitioned to agency life where he specialized in SaaS marketing.\n",[14,3457,3458],{},"Over the years, Avery has touched a variety of verticals including health and beauty, eCommerce, medical\u002Fpharma, education, and more. He is drawn to agency life because of the variety of clients he is able to work with and, in turn, learn from.",[14,3460,3461],{},"Although he’s touched several areas of digital marketing, Avery feels most at home when doing Account\u002F Project Management as well as Copywriting.",[14,3463,3464],{},"As is the theme with many of our staff, Avery was drawn to MKG because of our culture. In Avery’s words “MKG shares the same values as I do in both my professional and my personal life. When I saw that we meshed so well, this was an opportunity I couldn’t refuse!”",[81,3466,3363],{"id":3362},[46,3468,3469,3472,3475],{},[49,3470,3471],{},"Avery is an avid racquetball player. Having first gotten into the sport in college, he’s had lots of fun playing over the years. He tries to get to the court at least once a week.",[49,3473,3474],{},"Avery is a hobby bartender and enjoys making, tasting, and learning about different drinks. He’s mainly a Kentucky bourbon guy but also loves Japanese whisky!",[49,3476,3477],{},"Avery is a black belt in Pasaryu. This is a Korean mixed martial art which includes karate, kung fu, and Taekwondo. He has also trained and competed with weapons: nunchucks and samurai sword just to name a couple!",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3479},[3480],{"id":3362,"depth":297,"text":3363},"Avery Davis is an Account Superivor here at MKG Marketing.",{"landscape":3483},"avery-davis.webp","Account Supervisor","avery-davis-114055191",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Favery-davis","avery-davis",{"description":3481},59,"team\u002Favery-davis","Account Services","ysXkJK5t3F27trCgdjC7IRHXNs-Qxp9YxjH9QT3gDqQ",{"id":3495,"title":3496,"body":3497,"date":7,"description":3527,"extension":318,"images":3528,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3530,"linkedIn":3531,"meta":3532,"name":3496,"navigation":322,"path":3533,"quote":3534,"quoteCite":3535,"ref":3536,"seo":3537,"sequence":3538,"stem":3539,"team":3540,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3541},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fjared-gerling.md","Jared Gerling",{"type":11,"value":3498,"toc":3525},[3499,3502,3505,3508,3511,3514],[14,3500,3501],{},"Jared's journey into digital marketing started with answering a classified ad for a company looking for people with writing backgrounds for a position in SEO. As a graduate of Michigan State University with a degree in Creative Writing, this sounded like the perfect opportunity.",[14,3503,3504],{},"This small agency taught him SEO from the ground up, and, after taking a break from digital marketing to receive his MA from DePaul University, Jared jumped back into the field at a medium-sized agency out of Chicago as an SEO analyst.",[14,3506,3507],{},"Since then, Jared has worked for large and small marketing agencies for over a decade, providing expert SEO services in almost every industry that has a website on the internet. And with his background in writing, Jared feels most at home in the content and customer facing side of SEO and digital marketing.",[14,3509,3510],{},"It was first and foremost the people that drew Jared to MKG. Everyone at MKG has been so in tune with his values and his personality, and they've made his time at MKG easily the best experience of his career.",[14,3512,3513],{},"Fun Facts:",[46,3515,3516,3519,3522],{},[49,3517,3518],{},"I love to travel with my wife. We've been to many incredible places over the years, and are always on the lookout for our next destination.",[49,3520,3521],{},"I was a college rower in my younger days. I rowed mostly eights as a port, and competed against some of the best schools in the nation...and lost to most of them.",[49,3523,3524],{},"I love a really good French Martini.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3526},[],"Meet Jared Gerling, one of MKG Marketing’s thoughtful SEO Experts, bringing 10+ years of experience, intentionality, and creativity to the team.",{"landscape":3529},"jared-gerling.webp","SEO Expert","jaredgerling",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fjared-gerling","The truth is, most of us discover where we are heading when we arrive.","Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)","jared-gerling",{"description":3527},55,"team\u002Fjared-gerling","SEO Experts","1TbRdjbaY8GvD4YbpM3Pm85IGECKXrMtdVY8OquXFkg",{"id":3543,"title":3544,"body":3545,"date":7,"description":3579,"extension":318,"images":3580,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3582,"linkedIn":7,"meta":3583,"name":3585,"navigation":322,"path":3586,"quote":7,"quoteCite":7,"ref":3587,"seo":3588,"sequence":3589,"stem":3590,"team":7,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3591},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fkathy-obrien.md","Kathy Obrien",{"type":11,"value":3546,"toc":3576},[3547,3551,3554,3560,3563,3565],[14,3548,3550],{"className":3549},[3349],"\nKathy loves details and has managed the finer details of business her entire career.  She started her career in Center City, Philadelphia working for several law firms.  After she was married and had her first son, she left the bustling city to work closer to home at an international publishing company.  In 1994, Kathy and her husband Bill moved with their two sons to Charlotte, North Carolina.  They eventually completed their family with two more boys born in Charlotte.\n",[14,3552,3553],{},"In 2000 they relocated to Chester County, a suburb of Philadelphia. After a hiatus and four sons, Kathy returned to work in Chester County. This time, she gave retail a whirl so that she could be home when her school age boys were home. She quickly found out Ann Taylor was employing one of their best customers. Kathy then spent the following 10+ years in the Non-Profit arena where she did whatever needed to be done to further the mission. No job was too big, small, or unimportant to tackle.",[3555,3556,3557],"blockquote",{},[14,3558,3559],{},"Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.\nMother Teresa",[14,3561,3562],{},"By February 2020, Kathy was eager to build something for herself and her family. She set off on a new adventure of starting her own business when she was connected with Kerry, Mike, and MKG. Having commuted and worked outside of the home for 10+ years, she was ready to work from home and have a better life balance. She followed the rainbow and found MKG in her pot of gold. MKG is like no other firm or organization for which Kathy has worked. Their standard of people first is evident in every team member, every decision, every meeting, every interaction. They live their standard.",[81,3564,3363],{"id":3362},[46,3566,3567,3570,3573],{},[49,3568,3569],{},"Kathy’s dislikes: fruit & chocolate together and Tuesday.",[49,3571,3572],{},"Family: Kathy met her husband Bill in Wildwood, New Jersey after their high school graduations during “Senior Week”. They have 4 sons and 2 grandsons. There hasn’t been a girl born in the O’Brien family in 32 years! You will often hear Kathy saying her boys are the best 4 gifts she’s ever been given.",[49,3574,3575],{},"Special talent: Baking. Her boys’ (Bill included) favorites are Spritz Cookies and Chocolate Chip Cookies. There is a running family debate as to whether Ricotta Cookies are cookies or biscuits. At Christmas time, Kathy has been known to hide cookies to save some for guests.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3577},[3578],{"id":3362,"depth":297,"text":3363},"Meet Kathy O’Brien, MKG Marketing’s amazing executive assistant who consistently supports all of MKG across the many needs of the company.",{"landscape":3581},"kathy-obrien.webp","Executive Assistant",{"imageDescription":3584},"Kathy O’Brien, MKG Marketing’s Executive Assistant, in front of a gray background | MKG Marketing","Kathy O'Brien","\u002Fteam\u002Fkathy-obrien","kathy-obrien",{"description":3579},80,"team\u002Fkathy-obrien","lRwZA7wCSBsHC6ufODo6kKfYgfp9Nf-RTYoTK1zEMo0",{"id":3593,"title":9,"body":3594,"date":7,"description":3626,"extension":318,"images":3627,"isLeader":322,"jobTitle":3629,"linkedIn":3630,"meta":3631,"name":9,"navigation":322,"path":3633,"quote":3634,"quoteCite":3635,"ref":3636,"seo":3637,"sequence":321,"stem":3638,"team":3390,"twitter":3630,"updated":7,"website":3639,"__hash__":3640},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fkerry-guard.md",{"type":11,"value":3595,"toc":3623},[3596,3600,3608,3616,3618],[14,3597,3599],{"className":3598},[3349],"Kerry Guard (she\u002Fher) is a mom of twins - boy and a girl. She understands what work life balance really looks like and is on a mission to build a company that honors parents having a career and a life. She’s out to prove you really can have both with policies like ensuring 20 days of vacation each year, no client emails after 6PM or weekends, unlimited sick days, and everyday flexibility.",[14,3601,3602,3603,3607],{},"She also hosts our podcast, ",[206,3604,3606],{"href":3605},"\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fmarketing-leaders\u002F","Back on T-R-A-C-K",", which brings eight digital marketing experts to your ears every quarter.",[14,3609,3610,3611,3615],{},"Kerry is responsible for HR. If you’d like to join MKG where people are first and your expertise matter, Kerry will be with you through the entire interview process ensuring each candidate meets the necessary requirements and gets a fair shot. Want to join MKG and Kerry’s mission of bringing People First to as many people as possible? Check out our ",[206,3612,3614],{"href":3613},"\u002Fabout\u002Fjobs\u002F","Jobs page"," and see if we have a position right for you!",[81,3617,3363],{"id":3362},[46,3619,3620],{},[49,3621,3622],{},"Kerry now lives in Guernsey — a tiny nook in the world between England and France. Come visit for a spot of tea any time!",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3624},[3625],{"id":3362,"depth":297,"text":3363},"Meet Kerry Guard, one of MKG Marketing’s founders. She currently fills the role of CEO of MKG as well as hosting the podcast, Back on T-R-A-C-K.",{"landscape":3628},"kerry-guard.webp","Founder & CEO","kerryguard",{"imageDescription":3632},"Kerry Guard, MKG Marketing’s Owner\u002FCEO, stands on a street in Guernsey with the Town Church behind her | MKG Marketing","\u002Fteam\u002Fkerry-guard","I don’t have to chase extraordinary moments to find happiness — it’s right in front of me if I’m paying attention and practicing gratitude.","Brené Brown","kerry-guard",{"description":3626},"team\u002Fkerry-guard","https:\u002F\u002Fkerryguard.com","YRwfwzeXtTw6ls2uWUIyTaK1IWSJr1nWG76vYHgqCgU",{"id":3642,"title":3643,"body":3644,"date":7,"description":3677,"extension":318,"images":3678,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3680,"linkedIn":3681,"meta":3682,"name":3643,"navigation":322,"path":3683,"quote":7,"quoteCite":7,"ref":3684,"seo":3685,"sequence":3686,"stem":3687,"team":3438,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3688},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fleigh-snyder.md","Leigh Snyder",{"type":11,"value":3645,"toc":3674},[3646,3650,3653,3656,3659,3662,3665,3668,3671],[14,3647,3649],{"className":3648},[3349],"\nLeigh has over 15 years of experience of managing Paid Search campaigns. She started her career at Solid Cactus, a full service eCommerce agency in Wilkes Barre Pennsylvania. Having no experience in Paid Search, she learned as she went, starting out in the earlier days of Google Adwords, when Adwords Editor wasn't even being used yet.\n",[14,3651,3652],{},"Leigh loves to create accounts and watch them grow, even more she loves to take a poorly performing account and turn it around. Watching the KPIs increase from changes she has made or new ideas she implements, keeps her career exciting.",[14,3654,3655],{},"Managing a wide variety of accounts that include local car dealerships, worldwide clothing stores, online supplement shops to plastic surgeons and much much more, Leigh brings a vast knowledge of creative ways in managing accounts.",[14,3657,3658],{},"While working the majority of her career in local offices, the options for expanding her career were becoming less and less. She decided to apply for a remote job (before it was the norm) and was able to get experience that wasn't as prevalent in the smaller area in which she resides.",[14,3660,3661],{},"After working from home for the past 6 years the opportunities kept coming and when MKG reached out to her, she knew that there was something special about them and decided to take the leap. The people first environment is not just talked about here, but it is practiced everyday. MKG Marketing is unlike anywhere she has ever worked.",[14,3663,3664],{},"Outside of work, Leigh enjoys spending time with her husband Dustin, their blended family (Emma, Casey, Jake & Brayden) and their dog Millie.",[14,3666,3667],{},"The kitchen is where you will always find her, she loves to cook and bake all things Gluten Free and no one ever knows. When they are not at a swim meet or a baseball game they love swimming in their pool, long walks on the local trails, renovating their house and binging shows.",[81,3669,3670],{"id":3362},"Fun Facts",[14,3672,3673],{},"Although it was just was a short time, at age 19 Leigh drove cross country from a small town in PA and moved to Hollywood Hills, CA. Her view from her kitchen window was the Hollywood sign. Not a bad first apartment.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3675},[3676],{"id":3362,"depth":297,"text":3670},"Meet Leigh Snyder, one of MKG Marketing’s amazing digital advertising experts, bringing 15 plus years of experience to the team",{"landscape":3679},"leigh-snyder.webp","Digital Advertising Expert","leighasnyder",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fleigh-snyder","leigh-snyder",{"description":3677},50,"team\u002Fleigh-snyder","tY2JnqulQK9AU4TGRfATRnob3Thk9e9yAPu6iKBPA_s",{"id":3690,"title":3691,"body":3692,"date":7,"description":3739,"extension":318,"images":3740,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3742,"linkedIn":3743,"meta":3744,"name":3691,"navigation":322,"path":3746,"quote":3747,"quoteCite":3691,"ref":3743,"seo":3748,"sequence":3749,"stem":3750,"team":7,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3751},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fceleste-jacroux.md","Celeste Jacroux",{"type":11,"value":3693,"toc":3736},[3694,3702,3705,3712,3716],[14,3695,3697,3698,3701],{"className":3696},[3349],"\nCeleste Jacroux is a Go-to-Market architect for companies ready to graduate from \"random acts of marketing\" to a predictable revenue engine. As the Founder of ",[52,3699,3700],{},"Swell Marketing Advisors"," and a strategic partner to MKG, she brings deep expertise in aligning product, sales, and marketing into a cohesive GTM strategy.",[14,3703,3704],{},"Celeste understands that for founders, the hardest phase is often bridging the gap between a great product and the market that needs it. She specializes in clarifying positioning, defining ideal customer profiles (ICPs), and building the strategic roadmap that turns vision into traction.",[14,3706,3707,3708,3711],{},"At MKG, Celeste steps in as a Marketing Leader for our ",[52,3709,3710],{},"Marketing Leadership + Activation"," clients. She provides the senior-level direction and GTM rigor, working hand-in-hand with MKG’s activation teams to ensure that strategy doesn't just sit in a deck—it gets executed, measured, and optimized for growth.",[81,3713,3715],{"id":3714},"expertise","Expertise",[46,3717,3718,3724,3730],{},[49,3719,3720,3723],{},[52,3721,3722],{},"Go-to-Market Strategy:"," Launching new products and entering new markets with precision.",[49,3725,3726,3729],{},[52,3727,3728],{},"Positioning & Messaging:"," Translating complex tech into clear customer value.",[49,3731,3732,3735],{},[52,3733,3734],{},"Sales & Marketing Alignment:"," Ensuring the revenue team is fighting the same battle.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3737},[3738],{"id":3714,"depth":297,"text":3715},"Meet Celeste Jacroux, a strategic GTM partner to MKG and Founder of Sweel Marketing Advisors. She leads Go-to-Market strategy for high-growth companies.",{"landscape":3741},"celeste-jacroux.webp","Fractional GTM Leader | Founder, Swell Marketing Advisors","celeste-jacroux",{"imageDescription":3745},"Celeste Jacroux, Founder of Swell Marketing Advisors and MKG Partner","\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fceleste-jacroux","A great product doesn't win on its own. It wins when the story, the strategy, and the sales motion all pull in the exact same direction.",{"description":3739},7,"team\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fceleste-jacroux","xCdtcFdNV4sp78oidUDMCvxluqrG5iEdRJkxxEAOYq0",{"id":3753,"title":9,"body":3754,"date":7,"description":3801,"extension":318,"images":3802,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3803,"linkedIn":3630,"meta":3804,"name":9,"navigation":322,"path":3805,"quote":3634,"quoteCite":3635,"ref":3636,"seo":3806,"sequence":3807,"stem":3808,"team":7,"twitter":3630,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3809},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fkerry-guard.md",{"type":11,"value":3755,"toc":3798},[3756,3760,3783,3789,3792,3794],[14,3757,3759],{"className":3758},[3349],"\nKerry Guard (she\u002Fher) is the strategist founders call when they are tired of guessing. As the CEO of MKG Marketing, she doesn’t just run the agency; she steps into the trenches with clients as a Fractional Marketing Leader. She specializes in helping founders navigate the \"Growth Valley\"—building the systems, strategy, and teams required to scale from traction to expansion.",[14,3761,3762,3763,3766,3767,3770,3771,3774,3775,3778,3779,3782],{},"Her recent work focuses on bringing enterprise-level rigor to growing businesses. She serves as the strategic marketing engine for a diverse portfolio, including ",[52,3764,3765],{},"Rutkowski Law Firm",", ",[52,3768,3769],{},"Fulcrum Enterprise Group",", and ",[52,3772,3773],{},"Premier Office Movers",", where she aligns revenue goals with marketing execution. Whether she is translating complex tech into a go-to-market narrative for ",[52,3776,3777],{},"Avalanche Fusion",", or helping ",[52,3780,3781],{},"Extraordinary Advisors"," amplify their message, Kerry brings clarity and momentum to every leadership team she joins.",[14,3784,3785,3786,3788],{},"She is also the host of ",[206,3787,3606],{"href":3605},", where she interviews CMOs and Founders to uncover the human stories behind high-growth companies.",[14,3790,3791],{},"Kerry proves that high performance doesn't require burnout. As a mom of twins, she built MKG on a \"People First\" methodology—championing policies like 20 vacation days and zero after-hours emails—because she knows that rested, respected experts drive the best ROI.",[81,3793,3363],{"id":3362},[46,3795,3796],{},[49,3797,3622],{},{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3799},[3800],{"id":3362,"depth":297,"text":3363},"Meet Kerry Guard, MKG Marketing’s CEO and Principal Strategist. She works directly with founders to build scalable marketing engines while hosting the podcast, Back on T-R-A-C-K.",{"landscape":3628},"Fractional Marketing Leaders",{"imageDescription":3632},"\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fkerry-guard",{"description":3801},5,"team\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Fkerry-guard","oOXvRk_JAfbvrAQoDmPize2X6zquuQG1YD5msODvKcE",{"id":3811,"title":3812,"body":3813,"date":7,"description":3864,"extension":318,"images":3865,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3867,"linkedIn":3868,"meta":3869,"name":3871,"navigation":322,"path":3872,"quote":3873,"quoteCite":3871,"ref":3868,"seo":3874,"sequence":3875,"stem":3876,"team":7,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3877},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Flaura-mcaliley.md","Laura Mcaliley",{"type":11,"value":3814,"toc":3861},[3815,3819,3830,3833,3839,3841],[14,3816,3818],{"className":3817},[3349],"\nLaura McAliley is the growth strategist founders call when they are ready to turn early traction into sustainable momentum. As the Founder of Pebble Marketing and a key Marketing Leadership partner for MKG, Laura bridges the gap between high-level vision and the gritty execution required to scale.",[14,3820,3821,3822,3825,3826,3829],{},"Her track record speaks the language of investors and boards. She has successfully scaled SaaS startups from seed stage through to exit, most notably orchestrating a ",[52,3823,3824],{},"3x revenue lift"," at ",[52,3827,3828],{},"Security Journey"," that led to a successful acquisition.",[14,3831,3832],{},"Laura thrives in the \"messy middle\" of growth. Whether she is navigating the complexities of a Fortune 100 account or launching a scrappy go-to-market strategy for a new startup, her approach is the same: build the brand, unlock the revenue, and get the business investor-ready.",[14,3834,3835,3836,3838],{},"At MKG, Laura acts as a Fractional CMO for our ",[52,3837,3710],{}," clients, bringing the senior firepower needed to professionalize your marketing function without the full-time executive headcount.",[81,3840,3715],{"id":3714},[46,3842,3843,3849,3855],{},[49,3844,3845,3848],{},[52,3846,3847],{},"SaaS Scaling:"," From Seed to Exit",[49,3850,3851,3854],{},[52,3852,3853],{},"Revenue Operations:"," Aligning marketing spend with sales outcomes",[49,3856,3857,3860],{},[52,3858,3859],{},"Brand Strategy:"," Positioning startups for acquisition and investment",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3862},[3863],{"id":3714,"depth":297,"text":3715},"Meet Laura McAliley, a strategic partner to MKG and Founder of Pebble Marketing. She serves as a Fractional CMO, helping founders scale from seed to exit.",{"landscape":3866},"laura-mcaliley.webp","Fractional CMO | Founder, Pebble Marketing","laura-mcaliley",{"imageDescription":3870},"Laura McAliley, Fractional CMO and Founder of Pebble Marketing","Laura McAliley","\u002Fteam\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Flaura-mcaliley","Founders don't need another slide deck. They need a roadmap to revenue and a partner willing to get their hands dirty to build it.",{"description":3864},6,"team\u002Fmarketing-leadership\u002Flaura-mcaliley","ke5GsAQwur6LBbt6guZUCgKQT6MJJm8UL5XCaXjVnZM",{"id":3879,"title":3880,"body":3881,"date":7,"description":3909,"extension":318,"images":3910,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3912,"linkedIn":3913,"meta":3914,"name":3880,"navigation":322,"path":3916,"quote":3917,"quoteCite":3918,"ref":3919,"seo":3920,"sequence":3921,"stem":3922,"team":7,"twitter":3913,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3923},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fmike-krass.md","Mike Krass",{"type":11,"value":3882,"toc":3907},[3883,3887,3890,3893],[14,3884,3886],{"className":3885},[3349],"A proud Washington State University alum — Go Cougs! — who grew up on the west coast of the United States, Mike has lived on three continents during his lifetime.",[14,3888,3889],{},"Over the past decade Mike has led MKG Marketing in becoming a 7-figure business, joined the global Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) as a member as well as holds a seat on their Board of Directors and mentored other business owners through organizations like Idea Village, EO and General Assembly.",[14,3891,3892],{},"When he’s not at work, Mike enjoys:",[46,3894,3895,3898,3901,3904],{},[49,3896,3897],{},"Riding his beach cruiser bike in the park.",[49,3899,3900],{},"Reading business and spy novels (often at the same time — ask him how many half finished books he’s currently reading on his Kindle!)",[49,3902,3903],{},"Traveling the world.",[49,3905,3906],{},"Flying N5478N — his trusty 1981 Cessna 182.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3908},[],"Meet Mike Krass, one of MKG Marketing’s founders. He currently drives the big picture vision for the agency and supports biz dev and sales efforts.",{"landscape":3911},"mike-krass.webp","Owner\u002FVisionary","mikekrass",{"imageDescription":3915},"Mike Krass, MKG Marketing’s Owner\u002FVisionary, standing in front of St. Louis Cathedral in the French Quarter of New Orleans | MKG Marketing","\u002Fteam\u002Fmike-krass","Focus on the road, not the wall.","Alvin Alexander","mike-krass",{"description":3909},10,"team\u002Fmike-krass","WCJwOrpm4HOYHMODFwHdEILqPkcZwTSZUakkr3-n3rs",{"id":3925,"title":3926,"body":3927,"date":7,"description":3947,"extension":318,"images":3948,"isLeader":322,"jobTitle":3950,"linkedIn":3951,"meta":3952,"name":3926,"navigation":322,"path":3953,"quote":3954,"quoteCite":3955,"ref":3951,"seo":3956,"sequence":3957,"stem":3958,"team":3959,"twitter":3960,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":3961},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fnathan-stenberg.md","Nathan Stenberg",{"type":11,"value":3928,"toc":3945},[3929,3933,3936,3939,3942],[14,3930,3932],{"className":3931},[3349],"Our SEO Expert, Nathan, comes to MKG with an extensive background in digital marketing from front-end development to omni-channel marketing strategy.",[14,3934,3935],{},"He discovered SEO as part of a tech support job with a template website company where he was supporting clients with their websites. There he defined and developed the standards and processes that the SEO team would use for keyword research as well as the writing and implementation of the optimization. He then leveraged these standards to create an add-on subscription-based SEO product called “SEO Boost” which provided clients with a more proactive SEO service for their websites. This resulted in him providing keyword research and optimization recommendations for close to 1,500 websites during his tenure.",[14,3937,3938],{},"From there Nathan moved into the agency world, staring with a small boutique firm in Portland, OR, providing SEO audits and recommendations for clients ranging from small businesses to enterprise e-commerce companies.",[14,3940,3941],{},"He then moved to a larger agency and, once again, developed the SEO Team processes as the agency transitioned from an email-focused agency to a full-service digital marketing agency. During this time, Nathan was able to explore different areas of digital marketing strategy and really developed an understanding and passion for omni-channel marketing.",[14,3943,3944],{},"When Nathan is not working, he enjoys spending time with his partner and two children. You can find him playing casual sports, music, and Overwatch as well as snowboarding and cooking.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3946},[],"Meet Nathan Stenberg, one of MKG Marketing’s Digital Marketing Strategist, with an extensive background in digital marketing from front-end development to omni-channel strategy. ",{"landscape":3949},"nathan-stenberg.webp","Director, Strategy","nathan-stenberg",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fnathan-stenberg","Repetition is the path to mastery.","Zenyatta",{"description":3947},4,"team\u002Fnathan-stenberg","Marketing Strategists","natestenberg23","1moy0e42nEoQgH0weNaASdQ6FTDWXwC5TDftv5YS3tU",{"id":3963,"title":3964,"body":3965,"date":7,"description":3993,"extension":318,"images":3994,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":3680,"linkedIn":3996,"meta":3997,"name":3964,"navigation":322,"path":3998,"quote":3999,"quoteCite":3635,"ref":4000,"seo":4001,"sequence":4002,"stem":4003,"team":3438,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4004},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fnick-bare.md","Nick Bare",{"type":11,"value":3966,"toc":3991},[3967,3971,3974,3977,3980],[14,3968,3970],{"className":3969},[3349],"Nick Bare's college offered a digital technology and culture degree and heI ended up taking some communications and marketing classes as well and liked the thought of them all lining up with each other. Once he graduated, he landed a role in paid search and has been doing it for nine+ years now.",[14,3972,3973],{},"He loves that there's always a challenge to tackle. He enjoys taking on new accounts and getting into the weeds to see what can help them turn around and start driving more efficient leads.",[14,3975,3976],{},"He's most proud of being a dad.",[14,3978,3979],{},"Interesting facts:",[46,3981,3982,3985,3988],{},[49,3983,3984],{},"Born with a cleft lip and palate and has had seven surgeries in his life",[49,3986,3987],{},"Watched the Seahawks win Super Bowl 48 with his dad in New York",[49,3989,3990],{},"Travels around the country to visit all the MLB stadiums with his son",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":3992},[],"Meet Nick Bare, one of MKG Marketing’s Digital Advertising Expert, bringing 15 plus years of experience to the team. ",{"landscape":3995},"nick-bare.webp","nickbare",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fnick-bare","We can choose courage or we can choose comfort, but we can't have both.","nick-bare",{"description":3993},52,"team\u002Fnick-bare","yVusNcEIbiAvdPE02qyDKE_aINcQ0QMXSeyOKv9x5PE",{"id":4006,"title":4007,"body":4008,"date":7,"description":3993,"extension":318,"images":4035,"isLeader":3437,"jobTitle":4037,"linkedIn":4038,"meta":4039,"name":4007,"navigation":322,"path":4040,"quote":4041,"quoteCite":4042,"ref":4043,"seo":4044,"sequence":4045,"stem":4046,"team":4047,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4048},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fprachi-sarin.md","Prachi Sarin",{"type":11,"value":4009,"toc":4033},[4010,4013,4016,4019],[14,4011,4012],{},"Prachi has worked in marketing for over 10 years across various industries, but digital marketing has always been her true interest. She finally got the opportunity to pursue it when she moved to the United States and joined MKG as an apprentice, embarking on her digital marketing journey.​",[14,4014,4015],{},"Why I Joined MKG Marketing:\nI joined MKG Marketing because of its people-first culture, transparency, and commitment to growth. It’s a place where I can learn, contribute, and work with a team that genuinely cares.",[14,4017,4018],{},"Fun Facts About Me:",[46,4020,4021,4024,4027,4030],{},[49,4022,4023],{},"I love to read detective, thriller, and mystery books and watch shows in the same genre.",[49,4025,4026],{},"I’m a mom to twin girls—they are my world! Watching them grow, learn, and explore life brings me joy.",[49,4028,4029],{},"I love cooking for my family. It started with my husband, who’s a foodie, and now we cook together for our daughters.",[49,4031,4032],{},"Our family also enjoys playing video games—it’s our way to unwind and have fun together.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4034},[],{"landscape":4036},"prachi-sarin.webp","Digital Marketing Coordinator","prachisarin",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fprachi-sarin","We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things because we're curious, and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.","Walt Disney","prachi-sarin",{"description":3993},75,"team\u002Fprachi-sarin","Digital Marketing","LjXpVTmZn-XwzExAyq2igbw_fHhrVcf4nOLoEmURbEQ",{"id":4050,"title":4051,"body":4052,"date":7,"description":4066,"extension":318,"images":4067,"isLeader":322,"jobTitle":4069,"linkedIn":4070,"meta":4071,"name":4051,"navigation":322,"path":4072,"quote":4073,"quoteCite":4074,"ref":4075,"seo":4076,"sequence":291,"stem":4077,"team":3390,"twitter":7,"updated":7,"website":7,"__hash__":4078},"team\u002Fteam\u002Fsam-ellsworth.md","Sam Ellsworth",{"type":11,"value":4053,"toc":4064},[4054,4058,4061],[14,4055,4057],{"className":4056},[3349],"Sam has over 15 years of experience managing the development of marketing campaigns for national and global brands. She started her career in San Francisco, working in account management at ad agencies, where she managed a range of successful marketing campaigns from Super Bowl TV spots and fully-integrated product launches to social media campaigns and events.",[14,4059,4060],{},"After 12 years in San Francisco, Sam and her husband decided it was time to leave the big city and find a slower pace of life, settling down outside of Burlington, Vermont. Sam spent her first couple years in Vermont working remotely for a San Francisco agency and then as the Marketing Director at a local craft brewery before joining the MKG team. She was drawn to MKG due to our people first value and the opportunity to get to focus on a few specific, results driven marketing tactics.",[14,4062,4063],{},"Outside of work, Sam spends her time with her husband, 4-year-old daughter and chocolate lab exploring Vermont and all it has to offer — from hiking, skiing and enjoying all the local food to growing their backyard garden and working on a never-ending list of house renovations.",{"title":77,"searchDepth":291,"depth":291,"links":4065},[],"Meet Sam Ellsworth, one of MKG Marketing’s amazing Account Directors, who brings over 15 years experience managing marketing campaign development. ",{"landscape":4068},"sam-ellsworth.webp","Director, Client Services","samantha-ellsworth-40875866",{},"\u002Fteam\u002Fsam-ellsworth","Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.","Dr. Seuss","sam-ellsworth",{"description":4066},"team\u002Fsam-ellsworth","Xb0ljkUHaVzTObdBxfiOxIpE5jcK9HSfgiMlBhd8fuc",1787823214176]